Tow Package Brake Controller?

[Icemanhd]

We are talking milliseconds here, Once the AEB kicks in the light comes on and milliseconds later the brakes are engaged which any of the Redarc brake controllers react to. For anyone concerned with those milliseconds I hope they have their AEB set to the most sensitive setting.

As long as you are willing to take the risk that the trucks emergency braking system could slam on the truck brakes without applying the trailer
brakes any brake controller will do the job.

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[RangerBill]

We are talking milliseconds here, Once the AEB kicks in the light comes on and milliseconds later the brakes are engaged which any of the Redarc brake controllers react to. For anyone concerned with those milliseconds I hope they have their AEB set to the most sensitive setting.

That is not true. If the automatic emergency braking system applies the brakes, the Redarc controller will not see the brakes applied, and the trailer brakes will not engage. You have to have the Ford trailer brake system installed for the trailer brakes to work in this case (AEB event). A non-Ford Redarc controller installed will get its brakes applied signal from the brake pedal switch. AEB works without the driver pressing the brake pedal, so the trailer brake controller doesn't know the truck is braking, and neither will the trailer brakes be applied.

 

[Icemanhd]

I don't know how you guys drive your trucks but if you have the AEB set to the least sensitive setting and are depending on the AEB to be the sole application of the brakes (as opposed to you stepping on the brake as soon as you hear the alert) the ford setup is the way to go. My experience based on many years of EOCS (engine out compensation system used on aircraft) testing is that 99.9% of all drivers will apply the brakes as soon as the AEB goes off, especially if its set to the most sensitive setting. To date with my truck with the most sensitive setting I have had ample time to evaluate the situation which is usually a car changing lanes in front of me and choose not to apply the brakes.

The factory ford setup wasn't available when I was ready for trailer brakes so the Amazon Liberty Pro setup made sense for a lot of reasons.

That is not true. If the automatic emergency braking system applies the brakes, the Redarc controller will not see the brakes applied, and the trailer brakes will not engage. You have to have the Ford trailer brake system installed for the trailer brakes to work in this case (AEB event). A non-Ford Redarc controller installed will get its brakes applied signal from the brake pedal switch. AEB works without the driver pressing the brake pedal, so the trailer brake controller doesn't know the truck is braking, and neither will the trailer brakes be applied.

 

[Big Blue]

I don't know how you guys drive your trucks but if you have the AEB set to the least sensitive setting and are depending on the AEB to be the sole application of the brakes (as opposed to you stepping on the brake as soon as you hear the alert) the ford setup is the way to go. My experience based on many years of EOCS (engine out compensation system used on aircraft) testing is that 99.9% of all drivers will apply the brakes as soon as the AEB goes off, especially if its set to the most sensitive setting. To date with my truck with the most sensitive setting I have had ample time to evaluate the situation which is usually a car changing lanes in front of me and choose not to apply the brakes.

The factory ford setup wasn't available when I was ready for trailer brakes so the Amazon Liberty Pro setup made sense for a lot of reasons.

Not sure what your EOCS system is or does and what it has to do with the AEB system in our trucks. But I guarantee that most drivers first reaction to the AEB going off will not be to hit the brakes. It will be WTF is that. and it will be more than a few milliseconds before they realize and react. The AEB system is not intended to be the sole application of the brakes. It nearly fills in for the initial slow human reaction time.

And if the trailer brake controller is not the Ford kit the trailer brakes will not be applied until the driver comes to his senses and hit the brake pedal. In those many milliseconds of reaction time the trailer and the truck will begin to trade places.

I am very happy that you have such highly developed attention skills and incredible reaction time, that you do not need the help of a high speed sensing system. For the rest of us mear mortals, many of us can use all the help we can get.

 

[Cabose-1]

Well use the ranger as a work truck. Dont get all wrapped up in whether or not the crash bars are installed or not. Sometimes drive with no seatbelt. Gas in my oil is just fine. Shock are rough the fields and roads dont care if eldelbrock or coyote shocks. Sometimes dont connect trailer lights or safety chains. Ditch will catch it. And rotate my spare with the tires when i get a flat. Spare does not match the bigger tires i bought.
So far so good.

We are all still alive and have not killed anyone either.
The overseas deaths dont count. They shot first anyway.

But redarc has a pretty good and nifty brake controller.
Recomend it.
And a
GEN-Y HITCH
For towing

 

[airline tech]

To bring an understanding of why the Ford TBC is beneficial to safe towing.

It all lies in the fact that the ABS can and will apply the brakes automatically without an input from the brake pedal and the Redarc (Only) TBC cannot see this action.

1. ACC - When ACC is active if the CCM determines that the truck needs to slow its speed, the ABS module can automatically apply the brakes to slow the truck down, this is done with applying brake pressure to the calipers (Gradual Pressure)
Note: The Trailer Brakes (are not included) as the Redarc (Only) is not seeing this action
since this is gradual pressure, it would not affect trailer braking control much.

2. If this (Gradual Pressure) is not sufficient then the ABS pre-charges the brake calipers by closing the gap between the pads and rotors and sends the Collision Warning Message & Chime, now the system is waiting for (Driver, Brake Pedal input) and the ABS delivers maximum braking action.
So, in this instance the Redarc (Only) will see the Brake Pedal Input and apply braking action to the trailer along with the truck - depending on how you have your TBC sensitivity set will determine how equal the braking action is

That covers the ACC, not let's look at AEB (Automatic Emergency Braking)

1. AEB is active with or without ACC, all 5G Rangers have this feature
It uses the same principle as step 2 above with 1 added step and that is the ABS can apply braking action automatically to slow and stop the truck if the (IPMA) Trucks w/o ACC and the (IPMA & CCM) Trucks with ACC determines that there is an Immanent Collision.
Note that this is all done automatically without any brake pedal input, so the Redarc (Only) will not see this action.

To understand why the Lumen Module is IMPORTANT and why it taps into the CHMSL for its signal.
The ABS module (alone) can trigger the brake lights on via HS-Can 2 to the GWM, the GWM then transmits that request the BCM via HS-Can 1.
So, whenever the ABS module is applying brake pressure to the calipers (automatically) to either slow the truck down when using ACC or in a AEB event the brake lights are commanded (On) via the Can network busses.

The Ford Packaged (Redarc & Lumen) combination can see all brake activations from both driver inputs (Brake Pedal) and (Automatic -ABS) as the Lumen Module taps that Brake Light circuit.

With the Redarc (Only) or any aftermarket TBC that does not tap that brake light circuit, it will only see (Driver - Brake Pedal Input)

Now you may get by and NEVER have a issue, but keep in mind IF you ever get into a situation where AEB triggers and inputs a hard braking event automatically the trailer brakes will not be applied during this event.

I am very surprised that Ford is discontinuing this package and also surprised that the aftermarket does not match or offer the same optioned package.
Is it a really big deal? No and will only come into play on that (RARE) occasion when AEB actually is triggered.

Hopefully, this will be a temporary discontinue and they (MIGHT) be releasing an upgraded version an example would be the (Engine Cover) I remember not long ago the cover was listed as discontinued and widely reported on here as such, not long after that it showed back up with a modified part number.

Note: I just wanted to post the IMPORTANCE (Safety) of the Ford Branded (TBC-Redarc/Lumen) combo package and convey the information so you understand what Redarc (Only) cannot do in a AEB event.

 

[subquark]

I don't know how you guys drive your trucks but if you have the AEB set to the least sensitive setting and are depending on the AEB to be the sole application of the brakes (as opposed to you stepping on the brake as soon as you hear the alert) the ford setup is the way to go. My experience based on many years of EOCS (engine out compensation system used on aircraft) testing is that 99.9% of all drivers will apply the brakes as soon as the AEB goes off, especially if its set to the most sensitive setting. To date with my truck with the most sensitive setting I have had ample time to evaluate the situation which is usually a car changing lanes in front of me and choose not to apply the brakes.

The factory ford setup wasn't available when I was ready for trailer brakes so the Amazon Liberty Pro setup made sense for a lot of reasons.

Fixed it for you.

"... usually a car changing lanes in front of me and choose not to apply the brakes to accelerate. "

Applicable to Soupie with front shackles and chain, and on a dump run!

 

[Racket]

Tasca has the same part number Benny gave, I ordered one I'll let you guys know when it gets here but the photos show the controller and Lumen module.

It's been two months... how did things go with Tasca?

 

[Big Blue]

To bring an understanding of why the Ford TBC is beneficial to safe towing.

It all lies in the fact that the ABS can and will apply the brakes automatically without an input from the brake pedal and the Redarc (Only) TBC cannot see this action.

1. ACC - When ACC is active if the CCM determines that the truck needs to slow its speed, the ABS module can automatically apply the brakes to slow the truck down, this is done with applying brake pressure to the calipers (Gradual Pressure)
Note: The Trailer Brakes (are not included) as the Redarc (Only) is not seeing this action
since this is gradual pressure, it would not affect trailer braking control much.

2. If this (Gradual Pressure) is not sufficient then the ABS pre-charges the brake calipers by closing the gap between the pads and rotors and sends the Collision Warning Message & Chime, now the system is waiting for (Driver, Brake Pedal input) and the ABS delivers maximum braking action.
So, in this instance the Redarc (Only) will see the Brake Pedal Input and apply braking action to the trailer along with the truck - depending on how you have your TBC sensitivity set will determine how equal the braking action is

That covers the ACC, not let's look at AEB (Automatic Emergency Braking)

1. AEB is active with or without ACC, all 5G Rangers have this feature
It uses the same principle as step 2 above with 1 added step and that is the ABS can apply braking action automatically to slow and stop the truck if the (IPMA) Trucks w/o ACC and the (IPMA & CCM) Trucks with ACC determines that there is an Immanent Collision.
Note that this is all done automatically without any brake pedal input, so the Redarc (Only) will not see this action.

To understand why the Lumen Module is IMPORTANT and why it taps into the CHMSL for its signal.
The ABS module (alone) can trigger the brake lights on via HS-Can 2 to the GWM, the GWM then transmits that request the BCM via HS-Can 1.
So, whenever the ABS module is applying brake pressure to the calipers (automatically) to either slow the truck down when using ACC or in a AEB event the brake lights are commanded (On) via the Can network busses.

The Ford Packaged (Redarc & Lumen) combination can see all brake activations from both driver inputs (Brake Pedal) and (Automatic -ABS) as the Lumen Module taps that Brake Light circuit.

With the Redarc (Only) or any aftermarket TBC that does not tap that brake light circuit, it will only see (Driver - Brake Pedal Input)

Now you may get by and NEVER have a issue, but keep in mind IF you ever get into a situation where AEB triggers and inputs a hard braking event automatically the trailer brakes will not be applied during this event.

I am very surprised that Ford is discontinuing this package and also surprised that the aftermarket does not match or offer the same optioned package.
Is it a really big deal? No and will only come into play on that (RARE) occasion when AEB actually is triggered.

Hopefully, this will be a temporary discontinue and they (MIGHT) be releasing an upgraded version an example would be the (Engine Cover) I remember not long ago the cover was listed as discontinued and widely reported on here as such, not long after that it showed back up with a modified part number.

Note: I just wanted to post the IMPORTANCE (Safety) of the Ford Branded (TBC-Redarc/Lumen) combo package and convey the information so you understand what Redarc (Only) cannot do in a AEB event.

What would really be nice is if someone would release a module equivalent to the Lumen module so those of us that NEEDED to install a brake controller before Ford decided to come up with one, could retro-fit our current setup to be safer. But NO they discontinued the kit and left anyone without one with little choice but to go with an unsafe setup.

 

[Frenchy]

What would really be nice is if someone would release a module equivalent to the Lumen module so those of us that NEEDED to install a brake controller before Ford decided to come up with one, could retro-fit our current setup to be safer. But NO they discontinued the kit and left anyone without one with little choice but to go with an unsafe setup.

If not mistaken you should be able to turn off the auto brake system so you won't have to worry.

 

[Big Blue]

If not mistaken you should be able to turn off the auto brake system so you won't have to worry.

So you would rather disable a safety feature than have it function properly. ?

 

[Frenchy]

So you would rather disable a safety feature than have it function properly. ?

I have driven many vehicles that do not have it and did just fine. My current vehicle doesn't have it and it does very well.

 

[Racket]

Reading the Redarc manual and they claim their unit compliments AEB. I presume via the brake light trigger. Maybe we're overreacting.

 

[ControlNode]

So, If I'm understanding that right, the concern with using the brake controller without the Lumen SST-4000G or the module they show for light controller (maybe a diode package) is that if you manually activate the brakes with the controller, it feeds 12V out the signal input as well to light up the brake lights. I guess some of the advanced system in modern vehicles can be confused or even damaged if the modules see 12V back feeding on the brake light signal line.

 

[k1w1t1m]

So how does this Redarc unit determine the difference between a brake signal and a turn signal? I believed that was the whole reason for the Lumen connection to the CHMSL. Is this new connection upstream from all of that?

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