Fuel in oil

[Floyd]

Okay I will bite, what is the heart of the problem that you and Floyd think this thread isn't getting to.

Without at least seeing the problem first hand, hard to say, but best to examine some ideas.
I was only positing that the problem is unlikely to be a design flaw.

That leaves a few alternatives..
1] Operator error
Not likely from the reports made here.
but maybe hard acceleration on a cold engine causing a rich condition before complete cylinder seal.

2] Modifications to the engine in terms of performance.
Such as PCV or intake modifications or performance programs etc.

3] Maintenance issues such as dirty air intake or clogged exhaust.
Easy enough to check.

4] Defect in injectors, rings or fuel pump.
Unfortunately it seems that some dealers would rather make excuses than to get adequate tech training.

5] Maybe even altitude, season change, or fuel quality.

6] What about remote starts? does the truck make repeated tries for some odd reason?

7] If none of these, then some other cause heretofore not comprehended.

This problem was common back when cars had chokes and carburetors.
(cold starts and short trips)
Fuel management today is a bit less slobberdog

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[MotoWojo]

Without at least seeing the problem first hand, hard to say, but best to examine some ideas.
I was only positing that the problem is unlikely to be a design flaw.

That leaves a few alternatives..
1] Operator error
Not likely from the reports made here.
but maybe hard acceleration on a cold engine causing a rich condition before complete cylinder seal.

2] Modifications to the engine in terms of performance.
Such as PCV or intake modifications or performance programs etc.

3] Maintenance issues such as dirty air intake or clogged exhaust.
Easy enough to check.

4] Defect in injectors, rings or fuel pump.
Unfortunately it seems that some dealers would rather make excuses than to get adequate tech training.

5] Maybe even altitude, season change, or fuel quality.

6] What about remote starts? does the truck make repeated tries for some odd reason?

7] If none of these, then some other cause heretofore not comprehended.

This problem was common back when cars had chokes and carburetors.
(cold starts and short trips)
Fuel management today is a bit less slobberdog

1] Operator error
Not likely from the reports made here.
but maybe hard acceleration on a cold engine causing a rich condition before complete cylinder seal.

No.

2] Modifications to the engine in terms of performance.
Such as PCV or intake modifications or performance programs etc.

No modifications whatsoever, nothing, nada.

3] Maintenance issues such as dirty air intake or clogged exhaust.
Easy enough to check.

C'mon now, there aren't enough miles on most of these trucks for any required maintenance besides oil changes.

4] Defect in injectors, rings or fuel pump.
Unfortunately it seems that some dealers would rather make excuses than to get adequate tech training.

The problem probably stems from something related here. Although, my truck has been in 8 times for this, and had all the injectors replaced twice, the HPFP and all high pressure fuel lines replaced once. PCV system has been inspected and checked out as functioning properly, both a compression test and leak down test were within spec. This problem was not present during the first 10,000 miles, at all, oil level was always steadily in the same range and always looked like oil when I checked the level. Something happened, I don't know what, and apparently Ford does not know either?

5] Maybe even altitude, season change, or fuel quality.

I am in Wisconsin, about 1100-1200ft above sea level. My problem started last winter and continued thru spring summer and fall. I always buy fuel at the same chain of gas stations, every single tank, top-tier gasoline. My truck lives in a heated garage (my shop) when it is at home. I never take short trips as I live in the sticks, 25 miles to work every work day.

6] What about remote starts? does the truck make repeated tries for some odd reason?

I have used the remote start exactly 2 times since I bought the truck new. Heck, I have never even used the auto start-stop, as that was one of the first things I disabled.......nightlight plugged in the 110v receptacle.

7] If none of these, then some other cause heretofore not comprehended.

Yeah, something is causing it.

I wish Ford would get serious about fixing it. It totally ruins the ownership experience.

 

[jinja]

1] Operator error
Not likely from the reports made here.
but maybe hard acceleration on a cold engine causing a rich condition before complete cylinder seal.

No.

2] Modifications to the engine in terms of performance.
Such as PCV or intake modifications or performance programs etc.

No modifications whatsoever, nothing, nada.

3] Maintenance issues such as dirty air intake or clogged exhaust.
Easy enough to check.

C'mon now, there aren't enough miles on most of these trucks for any required maintenance besides oil changes.

4] Defect in injectors, rings or fuel pump.
Unfortunately it seems that some dealers would rather make excuses than to get adequate tech training.

The problem probably stems from something related here. Although, my truck has been in 8 times for this, and had all the injectors replaced twice, the HPFP and all high pressure fuel lines replaced once. PCV system has been inspected and checked out as functioning properly, both a compression test and leak down test were within spec. This problem was not present during the first 10,000 miles, at all, oil level was always steadily in the same range and always looked like oil when I checked the level. Something happened, I don't know what, and apparently Ford does not know either?

5] Maybe even altitude, season change, or fuel quality.

I am in Wisconsin, about 1100-1200ft above sea level. My problem started last winter and continued thru spring summer and fall. I always buy fuel at the same chain of gas stations, every single tank, top-tier gasoline. My truck lives in a heated garage (my shop) when it is at home. I never take short trips as I live in the sticks, 25 miles to work every work day.

6] What about remote starts? does the truck make repeated tries for some odd reason?

I have used the remote start exactly 2 times since I bought the truck new. Heck, I have never even used the auto start-stop, as that was one of the first things I disabled.......nightlight plugged in the 110v receptacle.

7] If none of these, then some other cause heretofore not comprehended.

Yeah, something is causing it.

I wish Ford would get serious about fixing it. It totally ruins the ownership experience.

It seems like a massive survey similar to the one for engine build date might give some correlation between cases. Not sure if the poll feature is the best way, as it was hard to get enough response. Might be better to track it all on an Excel sheet and Direct message users who have had the issue before to answer.

Month and year
State
Climate
Auto start/stop disabled?
Driving distance average
Fuel type
Oil type
Etc.

 

[2ford]

Exactly. There has been several different issues of cause with repairs that have not cured the problem & many that state we have no issues. No one seems to have an answer for either. So again why.

The heart of the problem is raw gas in the oil, raised crankcase level where aeration of oil/gas will cause damage to the engine. The cause has yet to be determined.

 

[N. J. Jim]

The problem is real for people who are experiencing this. And to you guys who aren't good for you, but go back in this thread and read more . It is very frustrating to have this problem and not have it fixed by Ford. I never had a car or truck were I was told short trips cause a problem to this extent . And the same for me I had no problem till I reached almost 10,000 miles.

 

[Doc]

The heart of the problem is raw gas in the oil, raised crankcase level where aeration of oil/gas will cause damage to the engine. The cause has yet to be determined.

With me the problem was solved at around 5600 miles so I’m thinking rings as I did from the beginning ...
Regards
Doc

 

[Texasota]

With me the problem was solved at around 5600 miles so I’m thinking rings as I did from the beginning ...
Regards
Doc

It is starting to look like this is my situation also. I just passed 5200 miles and the oil level seems to be stabilizing. The real test will be next summer when I tow the boat 500+ miles.

 

[Cmar]

Love/hate of British Engineering... Joe Lucas was the Prince of Darkness for example.

OH so very, very, true....

Many years ago I owned a first generation Range Rover, I took it to a lot of out the way, remote places in the Australian outback, and almost never completed a trip without having to fix, or repair, or jury rig something, to get home.
But as a 4x4 it was so far ahead of it's time in terms of comfort, and off road ability. That 3.5 Buick all alloy V8 was an absolute gem of an engine, (what was GM thinking - selling it to Rover) the pommies fitted it up with twin Stromberg Zenith CV carbs which suited the engine perfectly. Later they fitted Lucas fuel injection, a backward step, - more Lucas reliability joy!

It was always awkward to work on, parts cost a fortune, and the electrics were a joke, but I loved that car, however after unfortunately totaling it against a gum tree one day in the wet (I walked away without so much as a scratch) it was replaced with a perhaps less classy, but much more reliable Ford Bronco.

 

[Cmar]

Anyway on topic -

In terms of the gas in oil issues, I'm thinking maybe, a ring tension issue, in an effort to squeeze more fuel economy from these engines, is Ford using low tension piston rings, these won't seal as tightly against the cylinder wall from new, and will take a lot longer to wear in??

Possibly synthetic oil is just too slippery to bed these in properly in some cases. Short trips, low speed, light loads, low temperatures, are all contributing factors. Borrow a mates trailer, and pull a good load for a day or so.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

OH so very, very, true....

Many years ago I owned a first generation Range Rover, I took it to a lot of out the way, remote places in the Australian outback, and almost never completed a trip without having to fix, or repair, or jury rig something, to get home.
But as a 4x4 it was so far ahead of it's time in terms of comfort, and off road ability. That 3.5 Buick all alloy V8 was an absolute gem of an engine, (what was GM thinking - selling it to Rover) the pommies fitted it up with twin Stromberg Zenith CV carbs which suited the engine perfectly. Later they fitted Lucas fuel injection, a backward step, - more Lucas reliability joy!

It was always awkward to work on, parts cost a fortune, and the electrics were a joke, but I loved that car, however after unfortunately totaling it against a gum tree one day in the wet (I walked away without so much as a scratch) it was replaced with a perhaps less classy, but much more reliable Ford Bronco.

Hi Cam,

On my Austin Healy I had a sticker near the light switch that said.... OFF, Flicker, Dim....

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[Justlooking]

After 66 pages of comments it doesn’t look like this has been solved nor is there a TSB or recall. Wondering why no one has taken the lemon law approach (typically dealer gets 3 tries then Ford gets a try) or filed a safety complaint with the NHTSA? I’ve been seriously considering a Ranger but this thread has brought back memories of why I swore I’d never own another Ford.

 

[Langwilliams]

After 66 pages of comments it doesn’t look like this has been solved nor is there a TSB or recall. Wondering why no one has taken the lemon law approach (typically dealer gets 3 tries then Ford gets a try) or filed a safety complaint with the NHTSA? I’ve been seriously considering a Ranger but this thread has brought back memories of why I swore I’d never own another Ford.

It's hard to tell just how common this problem is. I imagine most people with a new car never open the hood. It seems only a handful of people on here have the problem....while that puts the odds in your favor it's no relief for the nightmare they're going through. Ford isn't the only brand having problems with GDI an TDGI engines. Maybe a 24 month lease would be a way to see if it has the problem....if it has it take it back if it's a good one keep it.

 

[Zaph]

With me the problem was solved at around 5600 miles so I’m thinking rings as I did from the beginning ...
Regards
Doc

Might well be that you and @MotoWojo have completely different fuel in oil problems. One has piston rings that broke in better and one has a fuel system issue that developed after time. We all have to consider that not everyone's problem might be the same.

 

[NvrFinished]

I first changed my oil at 2600 miles and sent it out to be tested. I had reported on this thread that it came back with 2.0% fuel dilution. I now have 5K more miles on it and will be changing the oil and sending it out again. I'm not overly concerned at this point.

Overall, the oil raised a bit on the dipstick, but not much. What's interesting though is that sometimes when I'm washing the truck I can smell raw fuel when my head is near the bumper and grill.

 

[Zaph]

It seems like a massive survey similar to the one for engine build date might give some correlation between cases. Not sure if the poll feature is the best way, as it was hard to get enough response. Might be better to track it all on an Excel sheet and Direct message users who have had the issue before to answer.

Month and year
State
Climate
Auto start/stop disabled?
Driving distance average
Fuel type
Oil type
Etc.

We're developing a solid user base of people with proven fuel in oil levels with the poll for fuel in oil test results.

I wouldn't contact all those people without the forum administration's approval however. But a lot could be gleaned if we start asking detailed questions of people who have the test results.

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