Fuel in oil

[Samsquanch]

Question here, does the oil and gas mix together or does it separate?
If gas separates like water then does fuel sit at the bottom or at the top?

Gasoline and oil are miscible they do not separate on their own like water and oil.

They can be separated by heat (fractional distillation) which means heating the mixture to above the boiling point of the lowest boiling compound (gasoline) which will boil out of the oil into gas vapor. At that point it should exit the crank case as a vapor and go through the PCV back into the intake and burn off.

This is why with short trips fuel can build up over time because the engine doesn’t get the oil hot enough to cause all the fuel to boil out and exit the crank case. The unusual thing here is that many having the issue aren’t short tripping the engine.

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[Samsquanch]

But is it cancer or just a funny looking mole? The doctor hasn't told us, so we're googling the symptoms and assuming the worst.

In this case the doctor (Ford) would be responsible for paying for the removal and chemo.

Think they will be enthusiastic about finding that mole or just keep an eye on it and see how big it gets?

 

[cbull]

5% oil dilution is less than 300ml. Nothing to really be concerned with.

Oh really, 5% water in fuel is enough to take out a cp4 pump found on the 6.7 powerstroke, along with 2011 to 2016 Duramax and 2019-2020 cummins.
You don't know what your talking about. 5% fuel in oil is enough, if continued, to cause engine damage down the road.

 

[cbull]

Gasoline and oil are miscible they do not separate on their own like water and oil.

They can be separated by heat (fractional distillation) which means heating the mixture to above the boiling point of the lowest boiling compound (gasoline) which will boil out of the oil into gas vapor. At that point it should exit the crank case as a vapor and go through the PCV back into the intake and burn off.

This is why with short trips fuel can build up over time because the engine doesn’t get the oil hot enough to cause all the fuel to boil out and exit the crank case. The unusual thing here is that many having the issue aren’t short tripping the engine.

I get that. Was just thinking that if the fuel separated, any oil samples may not be accurate, depending on when the sample was taken and where it was that the sample was taken from. And if the sample was taken after the oil was all dumped into a drain pan that was not cleaned prior to the drain then the sample could be mixed with other contaminants that may not give an accurate report, and analysis of what was actually in that particular engine.

 

[jsphlynch]

Oh really, 5% water in fuel is enough to take out a cp4 pump found on the 6.7 powerstroke, along with 2011 to 2016 Duramax and 2019-2020 cummins.
You don't know what your talking about. 5% fuel in oil is enough, if continued, to cause engine damage down the road.

Doesn't seem like comparing water in fuel issues to fuel in oil issues is a very fair comparison.

But since you know what you're talking about, could you share why (preferably with references) you are so certain that 5% fuel in oil is enough to be problematically damaging?

 

[Vitis805]

But since you know what you're talking about, could you share why (preferably with references) you are so certain that 5% fuel in oil is enough to be problematically damaging?

It really just comes down to research. Oil experts seem to say the anything above 3.0% for gasoline engines is cause for concern. Amsoil specifies "up to 2.4%" and Blackstone seems to support this with a more broad "2.0 - 3.0%"

https://blog.amsoil.com/what-is-fuel-dilution-and-why-is-it-bad/

 

[jsphlynch]

In this case the doctor (Ford) would be responsible for paying for the removal and chemo.

Think they will be enthusiastic about finding that mole or just keep an eye on it and see how big it gets?

I absolutely agree that the doctor is financially disincentivized from getting out the scalpel, but that doesn't mean our WebMD diagnosis is correct.

 

[jsphlynch]

[Q

It really just comes down to research. Oil experts seem to say the anything above 3.0% for gasoline engines is cause for concern. Amsoil specifies "up to 2.4%" and Blackstone seems to support this with a more broad "2.0 - 3.0%"

https://blog.amsoil.com/what-is-fuel-dilution-and-why-is-it-bad/

But how did the oil labs decide on those thresholds? It's simply a matter of that's the level that is generally unusual across a variety of makes/models. Being unusual is a cause for concern (which is why the labs flag it), but it does not mean that it is for sure discernibly harmful.

 

[CO2Ranger]

[Q

But how did the oil labs decide on those thresholds? It's simply a matter of that's the level that is generally unusual across a variety of makes/models. Being unusual is a cause for concern (which is why the labs flag it), but it does not mean that it is for sure discernibly harmful.

https://blog.amsoil.com/what-is-fuel-dilution-and-why-is-it-bad/

 

[Deathrider]

https://blog.amsoil.com/what-is-fuel-dilution-and-why-is-it-bad/

Funny reading because I just used Amsoil injector cleaner and noticed a difference in smoothness and acceleration, not placebo because I noticed it after a couple miles then I remembered I poured this stuff in my tank.

Good read overall by the way.

 

[Vitis805]

But how did the oil labs decide on those thresholds? It's simply a matter of that's the level that is generally unusual across a variety of makes/models. Being unusual is a cause for concern (which is why the labs flag it), but it does not mean that it is for sure discernibly harmful.

It seems they decide based on viscosity, which data from this site backs up. Viscosity becomes in the 5w20 range quickly with these engines and even faster the higher the fuel dilution. 5w20 is not the recommended oil for our engines, thus the precautionary thought process. The question is "if we are all running 5w20, basically, is that going to cause long-term wear?" Nobody is saying the engines have been harmed, this is a collection of experimental incidents that could be useful in the future. No need for any panties to be in any bunches.

 

[NeptuneRanger]

This thread is the perfect example of “over thinking”, folks have actually sold their trucks based on internet hysteria on this forum. Many who comment are very talented and make great points, that said Ford is a big well established company known for its trucks. Do you honestly think they will risk decades of Ford Tough accolades by leaving tens of thousands of Ranger owners with bad motors ? Will there be bad apples in the barrel, sure, happens to any make and model. To extrapolate off the OCD and paranoia of a few driveway scientists who think they know more the engineers who designed and tested these motors is a fools errand. It’s simple, sell the truck and buy a Taco if you feel anxiety about your motor. For me, I love my truck and there is no problem until one occurs and I’ll deal with it then, not gonna waste a second worrying about catastrophic what if engine failures.

 

[MotoWojo]

Sell it to Carvana..

As of now, I have no intention of selling the truck, I really like it and it fits what i want for a truck, except. of course, for this issue. Ford extended my powertrain warranty to 7yrs/100,000 miles, so I should get a new engine if it blows up before then. If it doesn't, I will need to trade it in, because I do not have any faith that this engine will last much past that, if it makes it there. The real concerning thing to me is, 2+ qts of fuel in the crankcase, could become a safety concern?

 

[Gizmokid2005]

As of now, I have no intention of selling the truck, I really like it and it fits what i want for a truck, except. of course, for this issue. Ford extended my powertrain warranty to 7yrs/100,000 miles, so I should get a new engine if it blows up before then. If it doesn't, I will need to trade it in, because I do not have any faith that this engine will last much past that, if it makes it there. The real concerning thing to me is, 2+ qts of fuel in the crankcase, could become a safety concern?

No matter how you slice it, nobody has had anywhere close to 2qts of fuel in their oil. That's 25% dilution.

 

[cbull]

Doesn't seem like comparing water in fuel issues to fuel in oil issues is a very fair comparison.

But since you know what you're talking about, could you share why (preferably with references) you are so certain that 5% fuel in oil is enough to be problematically damaging?

Go ask ford how much of any contaminants in fuel they will allow and still do warranty work on that pump. I've been through this and I've got friends and family that have went through this cp4 pump issue. Any contaminants such as water, at any percent, found in the fuel system is enough for Ford to deny warranty work when damage to the pump and the entire fuel system happens.
It doesn't matter whether it's a contaminants in the fuel or contaminants in the oil, a contaminant is a contamination, damage will accure at some point. It's very simple, oil is meant to lubricate an engine, not fuel not water not any other liquid.
You shouldn't need any forms or studies or any rocket scientist to tell you fuel does not lubricate.

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