Fuel in oil

shred5

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I feel sorry for all you people with this issue. Spend so much on your truck and need to rely on it. No company should treat customers like this. I had all the issues with the Focus and know how you feel. It was one of the shortest owned vehicles by me. Took a lawsuit for Ford to take responsibility and admit wrong doing to those with the car but mine was long gone by then. It does not bother me that there is a issue as long as they fix people problems, stuff happens. What good is my extended Ford warranty if they do not fix jack.

This stuff makes me not want to buy a Ford again, this is not the company they used to be.
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MotoWojo

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Dropped my truck off this morning, got a loaner vehicle. Oil level was up to the twist in less than 400 miles on the oil change.Will keep you updated on the next step in my case.
I can so relate with this, I hope your regional Ford Service Engineer is more competent than mine and they can actually identify the issue and get you fixed up.
 

MotoWojo

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I don't know what to make of this, I asked the dealer to give me some documentation stating that I should be driving my truck for at least 5000 miles before bringing it back in to finish the service. The dealer copied the email from the Field Service Engineer, less the contact information. It reads:

"engineering has told me HPFP fixes all the complaints they are aware of. So at this point, they have not provided anything helpful.

In case I don't get back to you soon, let's gather the oil samples and continue to run the truck to the next oil change and gather oil samples again (at least 5k miles on the oil).

If we can show a growing pattern of fuel dilution with oil analysis between and 1100 mile sample and then a 5000 mile sample, then we can make a decision if short or long block is required for this concern."
FSE.JPG


The last part had me thinking they have already decided to replace the engine, but the dealer inquired with the Field Service Engineer, at my request, and what he replied with was that he didn't mean that at all, and he doesn't believe that the there has been any excess wear to the engine nor will there be driving it to the 5000 miles that he required, even though he admitted seeing the 12% & 13% fuel dilution samples and the viscosity well out of spec. He claimed the oil sample showed low wear metals, so he said everything was fine. I don't know where the logic is that a 12% dilution, 500 mile sample showing low wear metals indicates that the 5000 mile sample will also show low wear metals?

Anyways, hopefully Ford will end up doing the right thing, and actually fix it or replace the engine. I currently have ~3600 more miles to drive, before they finish the service, and the oil level is into the twist, darker in color, and dripping almost like water from the dipstick.
 

N. J. Jim

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I don't know what to make of this, I asked the dealer to give me some documentation stating that I should be driving my truck for at least 5000 miles before bringing it back in to finish the service. The dealer copied the email from the Field Service Engineer, less the contact information. It reads:

"engineering has told me HPFP fixes all the complaints they are aware of. So at this point, they have not provided anything helpful.

In case I don't get back to you soon, let's gather the oil samples and continue to run the truck to the next oil change and gather oil samples again (at least 5k miles on the oil).

If we can show a growing pattern of fuel dilution with oil analysis between and 1100 mile sample and then a 5000 mile sample, then we can make a decision if short or long block is required for this concern."
FSE.JPG


The last part had me thinking they have already decided to replace the engine, but the dealer inquired with the Field Service Engineer, at my request, and what he replied with was that he didn't mean that at all, and he doesn't believe that the there has been any excess wear to the engine nor will there be driving it to the 5000 miles that he required, even though he admitted seeing the 12% & 13% fuel dilution samples and the viscosity well out of spec. He claimed the oil sample showed low wear metals, so he said everything was fine. I don't know where the logic is that a 12% dilution, 500 mile sample showing low wear metals indicates that the 5000 mile sample will also show low wear metals?

Anyways, hopefully Ford will end up doing the right thing, and actually fix it or replace the engine. I currently have ~3600 more miles to drive, before they finish the service, and the oil level is into the twist, darker in color, and dripping almost like water from the dipstick.
Doesn't make a damn bit of sense. Hopefully I can get better results and help you in your situation.I will definitely keep you up to date on my situation!
 
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SymChris

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I don't know what to make of this, I asked the dealer to give me some documentation stating that I should be driving my truck for at least 5000 miles before bringing it back in to finish the service. The dealer copied the email from the Field Service Engineer, less the contact information. It reads:

"engineering has told me HPFP fixes all the complaints they are aware of. So at this point, they have not provided anything helpful.

In case I don't get back to you soon, let's gather the oil samples and continue to run the truck to the next oil change and gather oil samples again (at least 5k miles on the oil).

If we can show a growing pattern of fuel dilution with oil analysis between and 1100 mile sample and then a 5000 mile sample, then we can make a decision if short or long block is required for this concern."
FSE.JPG


The last part had me thinking they have already decided to replace the engine, but the dealer inquired with the Field Service Engineer, at my request, and what he replied with was that he didn't mean that at all, and he doesn't believe that the there has been any excess wear to the engine nor will there be driving it to the 5000 miles that he required, even though he admitted seeing the 12% & 13% fuel dilution samples and the viscosity well out of spec. He claimed the oil sample showed low wear metals, so he said everything was fine. I don't know where the logic is that a 12% dilution, 500 mile sample showing low wear metals indicates that the 5000 mile sample will also show low wear metals?

Anyways, hopefully Ford will end up doing the right thing, and actually fix it or replace the engine. I currently have ~3600 more miles to drive, before they finish the service, and the oil level is into the twist, darker in color, and dripping almost like water from the dipstick.
Interesting... wonder if they’re thinking that it can be resolved with a PCM flash of some sort like they did for the Escapes with the coolant intrusions (like my ‘17, which has been good *knocks wood*). To my meager thinking, it sounds like a similar open-deck versus closed issue that’s throwing a wrench into all this, and where to add in the “fix”.

While I know others have gone through this, sounds like you’re the new guinea pig for this one... ?
 
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P. A. Schilke

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I don't know what to make of this, I asked the dealer to give me some documentation stating that I should be driving my truck for at least 5000 miles before bringing it back in to finish the service. The dealer copied the email from the Field Service Engineer, less the contact information. It reads:

"engineering has told me HPFP fixes all the complaints they are aware of. So at this point, they have not provided anything helpful.

In case I don't get back to you soon, let's gather the oil samples and continue to run the truck to the next oil change and gather oil samples again (at least 5k miles on the oil).

If we can show a growing pattern of fuel dilution with oil analysis between and 1100 mile sample and then a 5000 mile sample, then we can make a decision if short or long block is required for this concern."
FSE.JPG


The last part had me thinking they have already decided to replace the engine, but the dealer inquired with the Field Service Engineer, at my request, and what he replied with was that he didn't mean that at all, and he doesn't believe that the there has been any excess wear to the engine nor will there be driving it to the 5000 miles that he required, even though he admitted seeing the 12% & 13% fuel dilution samples and the viscosity well out of spec. He claimed the oil sample showed low wear metals, so he said everything was fine. I don't know where the logic is that a 12% dilution, 500 mile sample showing low wear metals indicates that the 5000 mile sample will also show low wear metals?

Anyways, hopefully Ford will end up doing the right thing, and actually fix it or replace the engine. I currently have ~3600 more miles to drive, before they finish the service, and the oil level is into the twist, darker in color, and dripping almost like water from the dipstick.
HI Motowojo,

I would very much like to understand how and why a HPFP resolves the concern. This makes no sense to me, but I do not understand the GDI system calibration at all. I am not satisfied that the full story is understood by this malady and am sad that Ford offers up no explanation other than part replacement...why...what does a bad HPFP do? Run all the time? Fuel pressure is unregulated at the HPFP? I just do not get it. Leaky injector(s), I get. HPFP...not so..

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
 

MotoWojo

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HI Motowojo,

I would very much like to understand how and why a HPFP resolves the concern. This makes no sense to me, but I do not understand the GDI system calibration at all. I am not satisfied that the full story is understood by this malady and am sad that Ford offers up no explanation other than part replacement...why...what does a bad HPFP do? Run all the time? Fuel pressure is unregulated at the HPFP? I just do not get it. Leaky injector(s), I get. HPFP...not so..

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
I believe the thought is that the fuel is leaking down into the head from the HPFP? It doesn't matter in my case, as they already replaced the HPFP once and the injectors twice. I think what he is implying, is that since they have replaced the HPFP and the injectors, they have no idea what is causing the issue, therefore they don't know how to fix it, and they are just telling me to keep on driving it to see how bad it gets after 5000 miles. My dealer thought that the Field Engineer wanted me to keep driving it so they could learn more about this issue, which they are seeing more of with the Ranger. The Field Engineer even went as far as to say, in another email, that fuel dilution just may be a characteristic of Ranger 2.3L engine. They are using my truck as a guinea pig and it sucks. I either do as they say, and keep driving the truck, or they won't fix it.
 
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P. A. Schilke

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I believe the thought is that the fuel is leaking down into the head from the HPFP? It doesn't matter in my case, as they already replaced the HPFP once and the injectors twice. I think what he is implying, is that since they have replaced the HPFP and the injectors, they have no idea what is causing the issue, therefore they don't know how to fix it, and they are just telling me to keep on driving it to see how bad it gets after 5000 miles. My dealer thought that the Field Engineer wanted me to keep driving it so they could learn more about this issue, which they are seeing more of with the Ranger. The Field Engineer even went as far as to say, in another email, that fuel dilution just may be a characteristic of Ranger 2.3L engine. They are using my truck as a guinea pig and it sucks. I either do as they say, and keep driving the truck, or they won't fix it.
Hi Morwojo,

In my opinion the Field Service Engineer should NOT have said that it was a characteristic of a 2.3L GDI engine. I can accept leaking into the oil from the the HPFP, but upon replacement you got another bad HPFP? Bull s*it... Something is wrong, but what it is, is beyond me to help as I have no experience with the 2.3L GDI motor.

There needs to be a leak down test of the motor to determine if the cylinder walls are scored and damaged. He indicates a short block. Take him up on this only after the reason is fully understood. There are good Field Service Engineers and bad ones...not sure where this person is....

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
 

N. J. Jim

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Went back into the thread looking for information. I'm sure most of the people who are having th
Screenshot_20201024-101159.png
is problem are aware of how this HPFP works, but I thought I'd throw this out there again. I would like to know if the Mustang fuel pump is set up the same way.
 

N. J. Jim

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Don't know what happened with that post here is what I was trying to show and does the Mustang fuel pump work the same way?

Screenshot_20201024-101159.png
 
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OWSportninja

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Just an FYI on mine they finally agreed to replace the HPFP and told me to keep an eye on the oil level and to keep monitoring going forward. Hoping it fixes the issue for me im at 16k currently. Blackstone did tell me my wear metals looked good but to keep the intervals short on the oil becuase of the fuel dilution.
 

Zaph

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Moderator, is it possible to add a poll to this thread? I see a lot of people getting oil samples tested at Blackstone and it might be nice to summarize. Or I could start a new thread for it. Maybe something like this:

Oil test results, % fuel in oil:
<0.5%
0.5-1.0%
1.0-2.0%
2.0-3.0%
3.0-5.0%
5.0-10.0%
>10%

I think those ranges might be a good span from great to horrible, and range from no problem to keep an eye on it next oil change to you better do something NOW. Maybe a comment: "initial test, prior to any fuel system repair"

If anyone is wondering, my fuel content is <0.5%. Also no antifreeze or water content. Same highish copper everyone has on a low mile engine. My viscosity was still a little on the low side after 5000 miles so I'm glad I changed the oil and didn't wait for the engine oil monitor to tell me when to change it. Looking at the results, a 10,000 mile oil change interval on this engine has got to be way too long. Might have been due to warm up idling in the winter.
 

Ace Holliday

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Here we go. I check the contents of my catch can every other week or so. It has had a little oil in it most times I've checked. Yesterday was different. It was about half full of what looked and smelled like gasoline. So I checked the dip stick for the oil level. Sure enough it is over full indicating it is at the upper hole on the stick. And smelled like gasoline.
I am really bummed. I ordered a Blackstone Kit and will drain the oil and send off a sample. I think I know where this is going.
At least I will have the report in hand when I start the process at the dealership.
The truck is my only vehicle so I will continue to drive it hoping I am not tearing up bearings, etc.
My truck has 7,000 miles on it and has not been abused. Of course there have been several times I have done full pulls to 100+ mph but it has never been over rev'd.
I will update on this thread as we see how this unfolds. Needless to say I am not a happy camper.
 

Brisko_Michigan

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Here we go. I check the contents of my catch can every other week or so. It has had a little oil in it most times I've checked. Yesterday was different. It was about half full of what looked and smelled like gasoline. So I checked the dip stick for the oil level. Sure enough it is over full indicating it is at the upper hole on the stick. And smelled like gasoline.
I am really bummed. I ordered a Blackstone Kit and will drain the oil and send off a sample. I think I know where this is going.
At least I will have the report in hand when I start the process at the dealership.
The truck is my only vehicle so I will continue to drive it hoping I am not tearing up bearings, etc.
My truck has 7,000 miles on it and has not been abused. Of course there have been several times I have done full pulls to 100+ mph but it has never been over rev'd.
I will update on this thread as we see how this unfolds. Needless to say I am not a happy camper.
Sorry to hear. Presuming your path toward repair is as rocky and unsupported as the rest of us, I recommend opening a case with Ford sooner than later. May help when the dealership engages and cannot get Ford to authorize a repair because there is no error code. The warranty team was more helpful; customer service needed to add your name to the list of folks who may one day receive out-of-warranty repair for this issue (doubtful but never know).

good luck.

warranty team - 1-800-321-7790
customer service- 1-866-631-3788
 

Ace Holliday

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Sorry to hear. Presuming your path toward repair is as rocky and unsupported as the rest of us, I recommend opening a case with Ford sooner than later. May help when the dealership engages and cannot get Ford to authorize a repair because there is no error code. The warranty team was more helpful; customer service needed to add your name to the list of folks who may one day receive out-of-warranty repair for this issue (doubtful but never know).

good luck.

warranty team - 1-800-321-7790
customer service- 1-866-631-3788
Thanks Chris. I decided to start the process before I have the oil analyzed. I have an appointment tomorrow morning to have it "looked at". Thank you for the phone numbers. I bet I will be calling them tomorrow afternoon.
I don't have a lot of experience with this dealership. The last new Ford I owned was a 2010 Ford F150 Super Crew. It did have an exhaust manifold replaced under warranty and there were no issues. But it was obvious and made noise, but no trouble code.
They always brag in their advertising that they are the top rated Ford service dealership in California. Guess I will find out.
Stay tuned........
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