10R80 Transmission

[Jmiller]

Wanted to get some thoughts on the 10R80. My truck is back in the shop for the second time to look at the transmission, the typical harsh shifts and very poor downshifts when stopping even slightly quickly. The dealer put me in a 2022 Explorer that has the 2.3l and the 10 speed. This brand new explorer is doing the exact same thing my truck is doing, poor upshifts and downshifts.
Thinking into this some I think it is either my driving style or poor design of the transmission. I drive 120 miles a day with 90 miles on the highway with cruise set at 73-75. Overall I am pretty easy on the truck. Could this all be correlated to my drive?

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[Trigganometry]

Few questions for you. How many miles have you put on it? This transmission is adaptive so a full range of driving takes time to learn your style and shift points. Do you “lock out gears”? Have you tried tow mode on? Others will chime in. I remember thinking the same thing when I got mine. I had to learn a new driving style with this one. Totally different than my old 5 speed tranny

 

[Jmiller]

I bought the truck with just under 10k miles a year ago. First service was at 21k and now back in at 38k six months later. I see similar results with both tow and sport.

 

[Colo_Ranger]

This is hard to quantify, since I don't know what 'harsh' means. I don't find my transmission to be 'harsh'. It's firm, but I find that to be effective. If I drive heavy foot, its solid but, after an initial warm up, its not as firm under normal driving. You can always try the 'transmission reset', if you haven't, but... if I am not mistaken, this is the same trans in the F150, which means its made for more power. That means, in my opinion, it would shift more aggressively to handle that power. Which in turn means for the less powered Ranger, it might feel a bit overkill.

That being said, I am no expert. I make opinions up as I go... ha!

 

[Msfitoy]

My tranny was perfect up till I hit 93K then one day it started to act strangely...long pause between 1st and 2nd, revs continues up and then sudden engagement causing a big lurch...I've since changed the fluid...first was a 6.5 quart extraction/replacement...a few week later, I did a another 7.5 quart extraction/replacement with filter change...things have gotten better but still acting strangely....first start up, shifts perfectly normal...after warm up (10 miles +), 1-2nd lurch, 6-7 lurch, 6-5 down shift lurch...nothing as crazy as before the fluid change but annoying as hell...

 

[Msfitoy]

Oh ya...since my fluid change, the trans seems to respond better to WOT...however, one time I had in S mode while doing a 0-WTH run and it shifted hard enough into second while revved out to squawk the rear 285s!!!

Fast forward...tranny blew up!!!

 

[NotBudule]

Mine downshifts so hard at stoplights it activates "crash detection" on the rear dash cam , dealer said "no issues found" , i think some of it might be the slipjoint , but they didnt care enough to lube it and i havent had a chance yet...

 

[Jmiller]

When the truck was in the shop last they performed a TSB that includes valve cleaning and an transmission reset.

 

[Wytchdctr]

As someone else pointed out to me, the thing has 10 personalities. Which one shows up on any given day seems random. Mine got way better at 5k but will still random derp into a gear. Especially 5th and 8th.

 

[ctechbob]

This transmission is adaptive so a full range of driving takes time to learn your style and shift points.

I wish people would quit repeating this, it is simply not true.

The adaptives in the 10R80 and really any modern transmission doesn't 'learn your style' or adapt to your driving habits. The adaptives in the transmission are only there to learn line pressures, accumulator fill times, clutch engagement times , and other timings of the transmission.

That is why there is a very specific, set in stone, way of doing an adaptive relearn,.

People think that they change the way their transmission operates by clearing the adaptive tables, what they're really doing is forcing it to relearn in a non-optimal manner.

Fwiw, the relearn procedure is in the service manual. Anyone wanting to properly retrain the adaptive tables should follow those instructions and those instructions only.

 

[Wytchdctr]

I wish people would quit repeating this, it is simply not true.

The adaptives in the 10R80 and really any modern transmission doesn't 'learn your style' or adapt to your driving habits. The adaptives in the transmission are only there to learn line pressures, accumulator fill times, clutch engagement times , and other timings of the transmission.

That is why there is a very specific, set in stone, way of doing an adaptive relearn,.

People think that they change the way their transmission operates by clearing the adaptive tables, what they're really doing is forcing it to relearn in a non-optimal manner.

Fwiw, the relearn procedure is in the service manual. Anyone wanting to properly retrain the adaptive tables should follow those instructions and those instructions only.

So what variables is it using to:

"learn line pressures, accumulator fill times, clutch engagement times , and other timings of the transmission."

?

 

[Trigganometry]

You will assimilate, so a tune readapts these tables and it learns that. So there are variations.

 

[ctechbob]

So what variables is it using to:

"learn line pressures, accumulator fill times, clutch engagement times , and other timings of the transmission."

?

Whatever variables the engineers have programmed into the unit. But from reading several things across the net, and using a little common sense, you come to the conclusion that adaptive learning transmissions are all about adapting to their specific running, not the driver. As clutches and solenoids wear, shift timings have to change and that is where the 'learning' is. Else you'd have too many complaints from couples that both drive the vehicle, drives fine for one but not the other? No way.

This is also why, in my opinion, the fluid should be changed on a MUCH more regular basis than what Ford recommends. There is way too much going on with these units to let fluid stretch out and become contaminated, even with the nice filter that these units have.


10R80 Specific
https://gearsmagazine.com/magazine/the-more-you-know-about-the-10r80-the-better-off-you-are/

https://gearsmagazine.com/magazine/...0r140-10r80-and-10r60-the-same-but-different/

Not 10R80, but a peek into what and how modern transmissions adapt.

https://gearsmagazine.com/magazine/...k-for-when-your-transmission-is-not-adapting/

https://gearsmagazine.com/magazine/the-zf-8-speed-transmission-fluid-and-filter-change/

https://gearsmagazine.com/magazine/...-and-how-they-affect-your-diagnostic-process/

And finally, the adaptive learn procedure for a 10R80, notice that is is cut and dry to how they want you to perform it. This is what sets the initial 'learning' in the transmission and makes sure the TCM is performing shifts the way it needs to. Nothing in here about the driver. Once it is done, the only adjusting it will do over time is as the clutch packs wear and the solenoids start to change how they perform. (IE, they slow down, or begin bypassing a small amount of fluid)


Perform the adaptive learning drive cycle on a level road surface as follows:

1. Record, and then clear any DTC’s
2. Drive the vehicle until the engine and transmission reach normal operating temperature.
3. Accelerate from a stop with light throttle (15%), ensuring that upshifts 1st through 8th occur at engine speeds between 1300-1600 rpm.
4. Continue to accelerate (may apply slightly more throttle after 7-8 upshift at 32-38 mph (51-61 km/h) until you achieve 55 mph (88 km/h) and the 8-9 and 9-10 shifts complete.
5. Brake very gently to a complete stop and hold the foot brake for five (5) seconds.
6. Shift the transmission to Neutral. Wait 1 second.
7. Shift the transmission to Reverse. Wait 2 seconds.
8. Shift the transmission to Neutral. Wait 1 second.
9. Shift the transmission to Drive. Wait 2 seconds.
10. Repeat Steps 3 through 9 six (6) additional times.

After the final step, place the vehicle in park and cycle the ignition key off. Wait 3-5 minutes before driving.

This is also not 10R80 specific, but this is an example of what adaptive tables learn and keep track of (From a ZF8):


"Your scanner can check the health of the five clutch packs in the transmission. Each clutch has four numbers associated with it. The four in order on the scanner are:

1. Fast Filling Counter in counts
2. Filling Counter in counts
3. Filling Pressure in mBar (millibar)
4. Filling Time in ms (milliseconds).

What the scanner is telling us is as follows:

1. The Fast Filling counter records the number of filling-time events that have taken place.
2. The Filling counter is indicating the number of filling pressure events that have taken place.
3. The Filling Pressure calculates the filling pressure. It’s measured in millibars so you’ll have to do a little math. One millibar is equivalent to 0.014psi.
4. The Filling Time is measured in milliseconds (0.001 second).

Using these figures you can examine the deviation from the standard value (what it should be) and get an idea of the condition of the transmissions."

 

[Frenchy]

The 10R80 is a good transmission, its just a funky one. Unfortunately it does take a while to learn itself and you and its constantly learning. That said if not already done there might(key word) be an update in the PCM for the Transmission. If not it.might be worth it to clear the learning tables and go out for a drive(warning it will restart the learning process again). I will also mention that I had the Livernois tow tune installed on my 2019 Ranger with the regular shift pattern set by Livernois(not the silly soft shift) and did just fine. Even after I installed the tune it did go into relearn mode.

Last but not least, I doubt it will make enough of a difference for the Transmission but it is best to run premium fuel in these truck. Running 87 is considered acceptable by the book but it still states for performance and towing to run premium fuel. It is possible that might affect the shift performance a little bit.

 

[Sanctus Rimor]

This transmission is adaptive so a full range of driving takes time to learn your style and shift points.

So, I gotta wonder what that means for me. My work commute is 4.8 miles round trip, and I go to costco (12 miles) once every 5-6 weeks to buy gas and get supplies. Am I making my transmission retar...uhhh...intellectually challenged?

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