Fuel economy and brand of gas

[AzScorpion]

Darn it, I have to apologize to @AzScorpion, I missed the perfect opportunity to ensure he has a nice retirement fund. The company that sells AzScorpion-endorsed 303 products also sells an octane boost that I use on every other tank or so:

https://www.goldeagle.com/product/104-octane-boost/

They also have the same with a lead substitute that we use in my old FJ40.

By the way, these bottles make great funnels for our capless systems. Just cut off the bottoms.

And take 23% OFF your order with code NW20YR23. Promotion runs Jan. 2-3.

Or *wink,wink* use promo code - "DoubleMyTotalAndDeposit@AzScorpion" to obtain a higher status on this forum, kind of like the $8 that Elon Mustie wants for premium twits.

Gold Eagle has a lot of great products both automotive and household. I made a list of the ones I've tried and use here. Honestly it would've been easier to list the one's I don't use. ?

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[OrangeStreak]

Hi Rob,

The 2.3L was tested with a range of octanes but not the M+R/2 pump number...it was Research octane numbers from below design intent to above design intent. This is a programed dyno of the engines only at our dyno labs building. The program reflected durability cycling of the 90 percentile usage. These engines were then subjected to post test metrics like leak down tests...valve lash measurements etc, and compared against pre test numbers. Then when indicated, torn down and again measures with manufacturing specs on the various components that indicate being in question. If abnormalities were found further research and testing would be conducted. Not every test engine was torn down, but the engines reflected high and low end and middle test fuel octanes.

So this long prelude is I do not know the answer other than the engine should operate acceptably to achieve 150,000 miles of durability with any specified fuel in the owners manual. So unless you are running tunes that are above octane like racing fuel for example or Ethanol mixes all bets are off...

Tier one vs lower tier is not all about octane but on the additives blended into the fuel. I am not a fuel expert by any means so do not know what additives do what.... There is another whole thread that could be started if anyone here is a fuel expert or wants to google the tiers.

Not sure this helps much... At Truck Engineering, I only got involved when we has a failure or a dyno test when south...

Best,
Phil

Phil,
Your background and knowledge are appreciated!

 

[JimJa]

You can not make any judgement on what caused the improved mileage with one round trip. It would take many tanks of gas running the same route in the same direction under the same conditions with different brands before you could make any conclusion on a gas mileage improvement.

Brand of gas makes no difference other than the detergent additives in the gas. Top Tier only means that they add a higher percentage of detergent than the government mandated minimum. Gasoline is a commodity which means it is sold back and forth between brands. All gasoline in a geographical area comes from the same refineries and distribution centers in that area (this is the reason you can get 93 octane in some areas of the country and only 91 in others). For exame a refinery owned by Mobil Shell or an independent refines gasoline and it will go to distribution centers owned by BP, Texaco or an independent. From there it will go to every brand in the area. The only difference will be the additives that are dumped into the tanker truck specified by each brand.

If anything Top Tier gas should give you lower gas mileage because the gasoline is more diluted with additives that do not burn and contribute to making power.

Winter gas has higher percentages of highly volatile chemicals like butane and hexane that make it easier get the engine started in cold weather but have a lower BTU content so they contribute less to making power resulting in lower gas mileage.

Ethanol in gasoline also has a lower BTU content so it too contributes less to making power resulting in lower gas mileage.

Excellent. AND all brands, even diesel, are pumped in the same pipe. Although ethanol has fewer BTUs, it has a higher octane so depending on your vehicle, the ECU can advance the timing to help compensate. From high school chemistry, all compounds ending in "OL" are alcohols and are therefore solvents. Ethanol is a solvent as well and will help keep your fuel system clean. However, it is also hydroscopic meaning it will adsorb moisture so when used in high percentages such as E15-E85, in vehicles that sit a long time while half full, there can be problems with water. In 300,000-400,000 miles of driving i've never experienced any issues involving Ethanol.

 

[Dgc333]

Although ethanol has fewer BTUs, it has a higher octane so depending on your vehicle, the ECU can advance the timing to help compensate. In 300,000-400,000 miles of driving i've never experienced any issues involving Ethanol.

That is true but E10 87, 89 or 93 octane uses less of other octane increasing compounds so you do not get any additional benefit of the ethanol.

I live in Massachusetts and we have not had anything but E10 since the 90s. I probably have closer to 3/4 of a million miles using E10 with no issues. Also, have used nothing but E10 in all my lawn equipment since the 90s too with no issues.

 

[kieefer]

I’ve noticed no difference in fuel mileage or performance when running regular or premium.

 

[Friday yet?]

You can not make any judgement on what caused the improved mileage with one round trip. It would take many tanks of gas running the same route in the same direction under the same conditions with different brands before you could make any conclusion on a gas mileage improvement.

Brand of gas makes no difference other than the detergent additives in the gas. Top Tier only means that they add a higher percentage of detergent than the government mandated minimum. Gasoline is a commodity which means it is sold back and forth between brands. All gasoline in a geographical area comes from the same refineries and distribution centers in that area (this is the reason you can get 93 octane in some areas of the country and only 91 in others). For exame a refinery owned by Mobil Shell or an independent refines gasoline and it will go to distribution centers owned by BP, Texaco or an independent. From there it will go to every brand in the area. The only difference will be the additives that are dumped into the tanker truck specified by each brand.

If anything Top Tier gas should give you lower gas mileage because the gasoline is more diluted with additives that do not burn and contribute to making power.

Winter gas has higher percentages of highly volatile chemicals like butane and hexane that make it easier get the engine started in cold weather but have a lower BTU content so they contribute less to making power resulting in lower gas mileage.

Ethanol in gasoline also has a lower BTU content so it too contributes less to making power resulting in lower gas mileage.

Perfect explanation. Only slight change I'd make is that I don't think the volume of additive in Top Tier is enough to diminish your fuel mileage. And hypothetically if it is, it is more than worth it to keep your vehicle's fuel system clean.

As to no name gas stations, wouldn't use one on a dare. If, IF I was running out of gas, I'd buy just enough no name to safely get me to a Top Tier branded location.

For what it's worth, I ran petroleum terminals and the related truck fleets for quite a few years. Got a few gasoline quality stories. Don't even get me started on the diesel stories.

 

[Friday yet?]

Actually in the manual it states " For best overall vehicle and engine performance, premium fuel with an octane rating of 91 or higher is recommended "

And they also recommend top tier fuel to help minimize deposits.

Just FYI, the Top Tier certification was started by the auto manufacturers. Not the oil companies. Manufacturers were tired of dealing with subpar fuel quality issues.

That said, lot of oil companies promoted/marketed/bragged about the fact that they jumped on the Top Tier band wagon. And then later, some much later, very quietly dropped out. (I'm looking at you BP. )

It pays to check the list of Top Tier suppliers regularly due to changes. I failed to and continued to buy BP gas for a full year plus before I discovered they were no longer committed to the program. Bastards.

 

[HenryMac]

Just FYI, the Top Tier certification was started by the auto manufacturers. Not the oil companies. Manufacturers were tired of dealing with subpar fuel quality issues.

That said, lot of oil companies promoted/marketed/bragged about the fact that they jumped on the Top Tier band wagon. And then later, some much later, very quietly dropped out. (I'm looking at you BP. )

It pays to check the list of Top Tier suppliers regularly due to changes. I failed to and continued to buy BP gas for a full year plus before I discovered they were no longer committed to the program. Bastards.

Good to know. Damn redcoats... they can't be trusted. ??

 

[brroberts]

Don’t know much about BP except that every vehicle I have owned has somehow gotten bad mileage on their gas. Not sure why, just know it happened, so I never use their gas.

 

[Fordup]

One other thing about gas is that it's a liquid that expands and contracts with temp changes. I think it increases or decreases by 1% of the volume for every 15 degrees. In the summer it's approx 50 degrees coming out of burried tanks and If it's 80 degrees out when the gas warms 30 degrees giving you 2% more in the tank. In the winter if it's 20 degrees you will have 2% less. Somehow the amount of energy stays the same per unit. Those of us in cold winter climates can loose almost 5% on those 20 below days.

 

[Synfulz]

I use Petron Diesel Max. Getting about 28-30 mpg.

 

[Jedadiah]

If there is any topic that an automotive forum should block, it's this one. Unless it veers completely off topic, which might give it value.

 

[jblc]

For what it's worth, I ran petroleum terminals and the related truck fleets for quite a few years. Got a few gasoline quality stories. Don't even get me started on the diesel stories.

Do tell! Interested in hearing some of them...

 

[seanellaz]

It’s actually pretty obvious. You were able to avoid any headwinds by driving in reverse.

HaaHaah!

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