Fuel in oil

[Gizmokid2005]

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Do we have a oil temp sensor in the crankcase that could be read with the Torque app and a bluetooth OBD2 adapter? That would be some good information for all of us, and might point to some trucks running too cool. Possibly due to thermostat or ECU error

Nope, we do not. Oil pressure or temp.

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[Porpoise Hork]

I read the SAE article I mentioned. Very interesting. Previously I mentioned throughout my several tests, the winter oil samples measured higher fuel dilution.

This article shows a curve where fuel in the crankcase oil vaporizes out of the oil less and less as the oil runs cooler, and more as it runs hotter. It makes sense, but they put numbers and a curve on it. At one test temp, 95 C (203 F) 50% of the fuel the entered the oil stayed in the oil and the rest vaporized. The curve spanned a wide temperature range though, and some temps unrealistic for engine operation. So there is always going to be some fuel there. So people with high dilution, we have to wonder what temperature your oil is at.

Do we have a oil temp sensor in the crankcase that could be read with the Torque app and a bluetooth OBD2 adapter? That would be some good information for all of us, and might point to some trucks running too cool. Possibly due to thermostat or ECU error.

The Honda CR-V with the fuel in oil issue, I believe were corrected by Honda with an ECU flash that just made the car run warmer.

Just some ideas to throw around

John Cadogan goes over fuel oil dilution and hits one main point to help counter the issue for the majority of owners. Basically his advise is to make a regular road trips with the vehicle to burn off accumulated fuel in the oil.

I take a regular 90+ minute round trip at freeway speeds every few weeks and with 8500 miles on the truck so far do not have any issues with fuel dilution. No magically rising oil level and no gas smell from the dipstick. Nothing to push me to send in a sample to be tested. I use Amazon Basics full synthetic 5w-30 oil and change it every 5K miles.

Warning potentially NSFW video

 

[N. J. Jim]

I read the SAE article I mentioned. Very interesting. Previously I mentioned throughout my several tests, the winter oil samples measured higher fuel dilution.

This article shows a curve where fuel in the crankcase oil vaporizes out of the oil less and less as the oil runs cooler, and more as it runs hotter. It makes sense, but they put numbers and a curve on it. At one test temp, 95 C (203 F) 50% of the fuel the entered the oil stayed in the oil and the rest vaporized. The curve spanned a wide temperature range though, and some temps unrealistic for engine operation. So there is always going to be some fuel there. So people with high dilution, we have to wonder what temperature your oil is at.

Do we have a oil temp sensor in the crankcase that could be read with the Torque app and a bluetooth OBD2 adapter? That would be some good information for all of us, and might point to some trucks running too cool. Possibly due to thermostat or ECU error.

The Honda CR-V with the fuel in oil issue, I believe were corrected by Honda with an ECU flash that just made the car run warmer.

Just some ideas to throw around

I read the article on the CRV and wondered the same thing about the oil running too cool. If I remember right it was refashed to get the oil up to temperature quicker and not to actually run hotter. It would be interesting to see if that type of reflash would help our trucks!

 

[CompDude]

I read the article on the CRV and wondered the same thing about the oil running too cool. If I remember right it was refashed to get the oil up to temperature quicker and not to actually run hotter. It would be interesting to see if that type of reflash would help our trucks!

Interesting.. I am also wandering about the oil cooler? Does only the models with the tow package have it? And can it be easily bypassed?

 

[JKocot]

So since my last oil change, I have gone 4,420 miles. Oil level has risen 3/8 of an inch to the max level hole. I have an appointment for an oil change 8/21 and will point it out to them, but I really think I am just not going to worry about this any more. They replaced all four of my faulty injectors back on 4/8/21 @ 8,849 miles. I went full synthetic at 10,230 miles. That oil change the level was just below the hash marks on the dipstick, and since then so I have driven almost 4500 miles. Just going to stick to 5000 mile oil change intervals and be done with it.

 

[slm]

John Cadogan goes over fuel oil dilution and hits one main point to help counter the issue for the majority of owners. Basically his advise is to make a regular road trips with the vehicle to burn off accumulated fuel in the oil.

I take a regular 90+ minute round trip at freeway speeds every few weeks and with 8500 miles on the truck so far do not have any issues with fuel dilution. No magically rising oil level and no gas smell from the dipstick. Nothing to push me to send in a sample to be tested. I use Amazon Basics full synthetic 5w-30 oil and change it every 5K miles.

Warning potentially NSFW video

I watched the video, interesting and I guess it makes sense what he is saying but a couple of times he said oil levels going over the max full mark is when you should be concerned. If and when I do get my Ranger (currently getting prices from various dealers) this is what I'll be watching for. He does put a lot of faith in the different companies (oil & car) to have taken the nature of direct injection engines into account while engineering their respective products, but I question why doesn't their literature state this? Maybe it does and I haven't found it yet.

 

[N. J. Jim]

Interesting.. I am also wandering about the oil cooler? Does only the models with the tow package have it? And can it be easily bypassed?

I was thinking maybe the oil cooling system was set up very aggressive to compensate for max towing capabilities . Maybe we are over cooling the oil and reducing the ability to evaporate more of the fuel.

 

[Mike C.]

That's cool that you got to read it, I tried looking for the article also. I'm wondering though, is the solution just to install a catch can system? There's a Ranger owner on you tube that seems to swear by them and I also saw a guy with an F-150 that said all EcoBoost engines should get them installed.

I pulled the catch can off my ranger. The fuel smell decreased significantly. Not sure about the analysis results as I do not have enough miles on it.

 

[Dustanmont]

Truck has 29k miles and I did a 5k interval for this test. Been keeping an eye on the fuel dilution and figured I had a problem. Changed the oil and filter and drained the filter and engine into a clean marked pan. An extra .5 quart came out than initial fill. I obviously didn't get all the oil out of the filter so it could have easily been .6 or so more over. Sent the oil out for analysis first to Blackstone and lastly to Oil Analyzers. Both said I had a fuel dilution issue.. Kind of a bummer because this is one of the best trucks I've owned and now I have to worry about long term reliability. I talked to a dealer and they just reassured me if I had significant fuel contamination my engine would have serious issues. Smoking burning oil etc... I think I'll just go full send for the initial 60k powertrain warranty and then trade in for the 23 model if it comes with a 2.7L.

 

[slm]

I pulled the catch can off my ranger. The fuel smell decreased significantly. Not sure about the analysis results as I do not have enough miles on it.

Do you mean you removed the system and are operating without it, or just checking it and it had indeed caught lots of fuel/blow by ?

 

[N. J. Jim]

Truck has 29k miles and I did a 5k interval for this test. Been keeping an eye on the fuel dilution and figured I had a problem. Changed the oil and filter and drained the filter and engine into a clean marked pan. An extra .5 quart came out than initial fill. I obviously didn't get all the oil out of the filter so it could have easily been .6 or so more over. Sent the oil out for analysis first to Blackstone and lastly to Oil Analyzers. Both said I had a fuel dilution issue.. Kind of a bummer because this is one of the best trucks I've owned and now I have to worry about long term reliability. I talked to a dealer and they just reassured me if I had significant fuel contamination my engine would have serious issues. Smoking burning oil etc... I think I'll just go full send for the initial 60k powertrain warranty and then trade in for the 23 model if it comes with a 2.7L.

I wouldn't even worry about it if your 4% or below. I've read a few articles that state today's modern day synthetics are engineered to handle up to 4% fuel dilution. Infact I think one of the articles was even on an amsoil site!

 

[Mike C.]

Do you mean you removed the system and are operating without it, or just checking it and it had indeed caught lots of fuel/blow by ?

I fully removed the catch can lines and replaced the original PVC line. It was a pain in the rear, but I wanted to see if there was any differences. The oil level did not change. It stayed slightly above the overfill hole. The gas smell from the oil did mostly go away. I was getting a couple of ounces in the catch can every 2 or 3 fill-ups. It appeared to be mostly water with a little bit of oil and gas.

 

[Motorpsychology]

I've decided I'm not going to worry about it too much. the Owners Manual says nothing about overfilling the crankcase, and makes no specific reference or remedy for oil level above the maximum like they do for minimum oil level,
or for overfilling the gas tank, for instance.
The engine has been around since the 2015 MY in the Mustang, and to my knowledge there is no wholesale engine failures resulting from excessive fuel-in-oil-dilution or serious class actions, like there is for the 1.5L EcoBoost Four in the 2016-19 Escapes for coolant intrusion into the cylinders. I have no empirical data, but I suspect that a large portion of the $3 billion in Ford's annual warranty payout went to replacing thousands of short or long block 1.5 EB4s.

When gassy/oil starts barfing out of the air filter, I'll contact my lawyer and my dealer then. In that order.

 

[JKocot]

I've decided I'm not going to worry about it too much. the Owners Manual says nothing about overfilling the crankcase, and makes no specific reference or remedy for oil level above the maximum like they do for minimum oil level,
or for overfilling the gas tank, for instance.
The engine has been around since the 2015 MY in the Mustang, and to my knowledge there is no wholesale engine failures resulting from excessive fuel-in-oil-dilution or serious class actions, like there is for the 1.5L EcoBoost Four in the 2016-19 Escapes for coolant intrusion into the cylinders. I have no empirical data, but I suspect that a large portion of the $3 billion in Ford's annual warranty payout went to replacing thousands of short or long block 1.5 EB4s.

When gassy/oil starts barfing out of the air filter, I'll contact my lawyer and my dealer then. In that order.

That is actually a good point. Just to check - I looked at the manual for my wife's 2018 Explorer as well, and sure enough, the verbiage is the same. It does not specifically call out anything about the oil level going over the max mark. I mean I would think it would be bad, lol.

 

[JKocot]

But here is the manual from the 2015 Mustang. It calls out going over the upper hole:

But the 2021 manual does not:

Wonder what changed?

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