Fuel in oil

[jblc]

How about after the driver door is closed and a foot on the brake pedal to initiate the prime.

Agreed. Or, since the prime takes 1 second, what my older ranger did: prime as soon as key turn starts. The key turn takes 1/4-1/2 second, I'm willing to wait an extra 1/2 second for the engine to start

(for keyless, perhaps slight delay before priming)

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[N. J. Jim]

Ford Ranger sales up 15.19 % in the first quarter of 21, 24,166 units sold. It will be interesting to see if this fuel dilution problem expands, is so maybe Ford will finally find a solution!

 

[Deathrider]

Ford Ranger sales up 12.38% in the first quarter of 21, 24,083 units sold. It will be interesting to see if this fuel dilution problem expands, is so maybe Ford will finally find a solution!

I really doubt anybody checks and smells their oil on a brand new truck, i sure as hell wouldn't have if I didn't find this forum,
Or unless your an extreme enthusiast.

 

[Samsquanch]

It’s probably going to take some folks getting this to Ford corporate before anything happens. Or some people attempting to lemon law their trucks. It might get Ford to go on record with how much fuel dilution is acceptable to them.

 

[Zaph]

From what I have found online, Blackstone uses "open cup" flashpoint testing, ASTM D92 - 18, for determining fuel dilution. It seems to be widely agreed upon, that this method is not the most accurate and is regarded as a qualitative test vs quantitative test (pass/fail vs how much). Gas chromatography is regarded as a much more accurate testing method. Search around online, lots of folks have posted results comparing both methods. For fuel dilution issues, I do not believe Blackstone is the proper testing house.

I heard from the lab manager US Lubricants. They use the gas chromatography spectrum analysis method. It's almost surprising to me that anyone uses that because the equipment and lab setup is super expensive. Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong type of equipment but $200K or so, at least according to a friend in the chemicals industry. Anyway, the lab manager at US Lubricants said GC is good for about 1% accuracy.

I don't know what type Blackstone uses, but just for info, my next sample I'll send to both and see how they compare. I honestly don't think it will be too far off and I still think what they do is good info. I do have a lot of respect for Blackstone, as they have been accurately predicting race engine wear for me and a lot of my racing friends for more than a decade. They are pretty well respected.

If anyone happens to send a sample to both US Lubricants AND Blackstone, be sure to let us know how they compare. It might be a while for me, just had my oil changed a month ago.

 

[MotoWojo]

I heard from the lab manager US Lubricants. They use the gas chromatography spectrum analysis method. It's almost surprising to me that anyone uses that because the equipment and lab setup is super expensive. Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong type of equipment but $200K or so, at least according to a friend in the chemicals industry. Anyway, the lab manager at US Lubricants said GC is good for about 1% accuracy.

I don't know what type Blackstone uses, but just for info, my next sample I'll send to both and see how they compare. I honestly don't think it will be too far off and I still think what they do is good info. I do have a lot of respect for Blackstone, as they have been accurately predicting race engine wear for me and a lot of my racing friends for more than a decade. They are pretty well respected.

If anyone happens to send a sample to both US Lubricants AND Blackstone, be sure to let us know how they compare. It might be a while for me, just had my oil changed a month ago.

I verified that Blackstone uses "open cup" flashpoint testing by looking it up on there website. They even have a video explaining the testing. I will be curious to see the comparison between the two. Most of the comparisons I found online showed the Blackstone samples much lower than those using gas chromatography. All my oil samples were sent out by Ford and they used U.S. Lubricants. I have yet to see the last 2 reports, but the sample with 5,000 miles, should be a doozy, 3000+ miles with the level above the twist. My parts came in today and I am scheduled to drop the truck off next week Tuesday. They are supposed to have the test reports available then. I don't have much hope that the fuel/oil issue will be fixed, but after a year without AC, I told them I don't want the truck back until the AC is working. Over a year without AC on a $40k+ truck...ridiculous. Ford should be ashamed.

 

[N. J. Jim]

Thanks for posting, Bob. That was an interesting read. They also said this:


I will be patiently waiting to hear Jim's next test results with the 5W40.

I will be sending my sample off tomorrow I will let you know when I get the results!

 

[N. J. Jim]

I verified that Blackstone uses "open cup" flashpoint testing by looking it up on there website. They even have a video explaining the testing. I will be curious to see the comparison between the two. Most of the comparisons I found online showed the Blackstone samples much lower than those using gas chromatography. All my oil samples were sent out by Ford and they used U.S. Lubricants. I have yet to see the last 2 reports, but the sample with 5,000 miles, should be a doozy, 3000+ miles with the level above the twist. My parts came in today and I am scheduled to drop the truck off next week Tuesday. They are supposed to have the test reports available then. I don't have much hope that the fuel/oil issue will be fixed, but after a year without AC, I told them I don't want the truck back until the AC is working. Over a year without AC on a $40k+ truck...ridiculous. Ford should be ashamed.

If they don't fix the fuel dilution condition take the damn thing out and blow the bastard up, then maybe they can find the problem!!!

 

[Samsquanch]

If they don't fix the fuel dilution condition take the damn thing out and blow the bastard up, then maybe they can find the problem!!!

The main issue with this fuel dilution problem isn’t that they will blow up soon. It’s that they could have major issues related to wear much earlier in the engines life than you would otherwise expect to see on a modern engine.

The main concern would be something like a bad oil consumption issue right outside the warranty period due to worn rings or the engine developing a knock within a short time of the warranty ending.

Diluted oil can wash your cylinder walls out starving them of lubrication among other nasty issues.

The reason there is a lot of interest in this is because if we can establish what is going on we could potentially do something about it with or without Ford’s help. At minimum maybe we go to the extreme and go back to an old school 2,000 mile oil change interval to keep lubricity in the green zone while this is being figured out.

It might seem like a conspiracy theory, but there are examples to back up these kind of repairs being addressed in the aftermarket. My wife previously had a v6 accord that was in the years they had issues with eco mode causing severe oil consumption eventually leading to needing a top end rebuild. The rings would gum up awful and eventually would get stuck to the point that oil would freely enter the cylinder from below. Our car had a gunked up spark plug at 60k miles which was a sign that the issue might be setting in. Right around that time several companies popped up offering a simple plug and play piggy back device that disabled eco mode completely. This is something that Honda never would do and to this day if you have the problem you are SOL. They literally never fixed it or addressed it! There was a few years that they would cover the repair of this happened but after that period passed it was entirely on the owners to deal with it despite them never actually fixing the problem. Their extended warranty they gave to address the issue didn’t mean a whole lot if you wanted to keep the car more than 100k miles. A lot of us want to keep these vehicles for years and I would prefer to maintain the truck in such a way that it will live a long life.

 

[Texasota]

I will be sending my sample off tomorrow I will let you know when I get the results!

I’m hoping your viscosity numbers end up being in the range where it should be for 5W30 (or better). That will be just as interesting as your fuel %.

 

[N. J. Jim]

I’m hoping your viscosity numbers end up being in the range where it should be for 5W30 (or better). That will be just as interesting as your fuel %.

If it does end up at the 5w30 level or close it will be hard to argue the logic in using 5w40. Viscosity and lubricity is the name of the game if you don't have that you eventually have engine damage !! You don't have to be a scientist to understand that!

 

[Samsquanch]

If it does end up at the 5w30 level or close it will be hard to argue the logic in using 5w40. Viscosity and lubricity is the name of the game if you don't have that you eventually have engine damage !! You don't have to be a scientist to understand that!

The only issue with this plan is that the viscosity would start out too high. In theory it would come down to the correct level over time but how long into the oil interval does it take for it to come down? On top of that, I don’t think it would solve the issue of the gas in your oil washing critical components of their oil coating. The higher viscosity can’t do much to help a cylinder wall that’s been cleaned of oil due to fuel washing it off.

It would probably be more effective to change the oil more often than to try and compensate for the fuel being there. Even better would be figuring out how to reduce the fuel dilution to a normal level for GDI engines.

 

[N. J. Jim]

The only issue with this plan is that the viscosity would start out too high. In theory it would come down to the correct level over time but how long into the oil interval does it take for it to come down? On top of that, I don’t think it would solve the issue of the gas in your oil washing critical components of their oil coating. The higher viscosity can’t do much to help a cylinder wall that’s been cleaned of oil due to fuel washing it off.

It would probably be more effective to change the oil more often than to try and compensate for the fuel being there. Even better would be figuring out how to reduce the fuel dilution to a normal level for GDI engines.

That sounds good but some people would be changing their oil every thousand miles. Some are getting high levels of dilution quickly. It becomes cost prohibited with some levels that are being experienced. What needs to happen here is Ford to step up and offer a solution.

 

[2ford]

The only issue with this plan is that the viscosity would start out too high. In theory it would come down to the correct level over time but how long into the oil interval does it take for it to come down? On top of that, I don’t think it would solve the issue of the gas in your oil washing critical components of their oil coating. The higher viscosity can’t do much to help a cylinder wall that’s been cleaned of oil due to fuel washing it off.

It would probably be more effective to change the oil more often than to try and compensate for the fuel being there. Even better would be figuring out how to reduce the fuel dilution to a normal level for GDI engines.

So what if the viscosity starts out high whats it going to hurt maybe a tad drop in mpg

 

[Trigganometry]

Check this out! Going to a heavier oil according to this chart isn’t an issue. https://oilincar.com/ford/ranger/v_5-2018-.php

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