Fuel in oil

[Bludrok]

I had a good conversation with my service manager about wanting to use 5w40. He said Ford Engineering will never give me a written statement approving of 5w40 but also said that my warranty will not be denied because of it (his opinion obviously). He said Ford would have to prove the 5w40 caused the failure and given the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act that would be difficult to do. He understood my reasoning for using 5w40 when I showed him the viscosity numbers on my last two Blackstone reports.

I tow a 4000 lb boat a lot and I’m going to upgrade to 5w40 on the next oil change. I’ll keep an eye on the dipstick after that but I’m not going to worry about it. Never before loved a vehicle like I do this Ranger.

Please allow me to caution you about this. What you said is not incorrect, but it does not work that way in practice.

Before I go too much into it, let me say, you will be fine running that oil as long as you don't mention it to anyone. However, if you admit to using that weight of oil, all they would have to do is show it is possible that the oil caused the damage to win against you in court. The standard for evidence in civil court is preponderance of the evidence, which is basically they just have to prove there is more than a 50% chance that it is true. Which, if you are in court fighting the type of claim they are willing to take to court will be something like a complete engine failure. It would not be hard to convince a jury that using an oil weight that is not recommended could lead to those types of failures. Also, you would have to file a lawsuit to even get it that far. Assuming they were going to decline your warranty, they would just do it and then it is on you to take action from there.

Now, that being said, feel free to read up on my story here.

I ended up taking the $5000 settlement, but was on the hook for my own repairs. They did not officially void the warranty, but my lawyer said the powertrain warranty was effectively voided because any powertrain issue that came up in the future would be blamed on the tuner and they would decline the repair.

I think the link explains it all if you read all 4 pages of the thread, but I will gladly give more details if anyone wants.

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[Matsterious]

Now, that being said, feel free to read up on my story here.

NIce read regarding your "story". Some of those civic guys are hard on you. It doesn't sound like you were ever being an a-hole about the situation. I don't think it's bad Honda wanted to help you out. It's called marketing. Instead of creating an enemy, they created good will.

 

[Bludrok]

NIce read regarding your "story". Some of those civic guys are hard on you. It doesn't sound like you were ever being an a-hole about the situation. I don't think it's bad Honda wanted to help you out. It's called marketing. Instead of creating an enemy, they created good will.

All they were doing is avoiding their legal fees if we took it to court. In the end, it worked out and now I have a ranger

 

[Zaph]

I got my oil analysis back from blackstone and I have 2.8 fuel dilution at 3,803 miles on the oil. I also have high silicon, aluminum and potassium.

should I be worried about those elevated levels?

Nah, I don't think that's anything to worry about. (IMHO)

here is my report.

Don't forget to enter your poll results.

My dealership told me that Ford has sent out a notice to the dealerships that they will no longer consider oil sample analysis for fuel dilution issues for any of the Ford DI engines. Ford is claiming that fuel dilution is normal in their DI engines.

That's unfortunate to hear. I suspect you can thank Jim Farley directly for that. It's his goal to lower warranty costs, and if that means shitting on the people that really need it, he apparently will do so. You can almost bet 100% he had a say in this. What's keeping you from lawyering up at this point?

 

[MotoWojo]

Nah, I don't think that's anything to worry about. (IMHO)


Don't forget to enter your poll results.



That's unfortunate to hear. I suspect you can thank Jim Farley directly for that. It's his goal to lower warranty costs, and if that means shitting on the people that really need it, he apparently will do so. You can almost bet 100% he had a say in this. What's keeping you from lawyering up at this point?

Well, I just got home from having the truck in for the 14th time. It did not go well. The dealership told me they were unable to reproduce the "stalling" situation after taking the truck out on 2 separate test drives. That sounded plausible, as it has only done it 4 times over the past 1000 miles or so. They recorded (pictures) the high oil level on the dipstick to give to Ford in order for Ford to authorize any more warranty work on the truck. They have already been told by Ford, that Ford will not authorize any more work related to fuel dilution, as it is an inherent condition of all of the Ford DI engines and has been determined not to be harmful to the engine. In my case. we're not talking about a little fuel dilution, 3 oil samples, taken by my dealership, were all double digit fuel contamination, in as little as 500 miles. Two other oil samples were taken, but Ford will not allow them to be shared with me. The earlier samples are posted somewhere in this thread. Anyway, the dealership told me they will pursue the issue based on the high crankcase oil levels and will also pursue the "stalling" issue separately, although they may be related . I told them, I just picked up a dash cam, so when it happens again, I can have a recording, hopefully without anyone getting hurt or killed. They said they would keep me up on the progress with Ford. This all sounded plausible and I thanked them and got in my truck to head home and that is when all hell broke loose.

I started very early on recording each of my visits to the dealer, taking pictures of the odometer while in the dealership drop off bay as well as when I picked up the truck. So what happened was, when I got in the truck to leave, I went to take a pic of my odometer and I noticed there was only .6 miles put on the truck since when I dropped it off. I may have raised my voice a couple times, voicing my displeasure, as I was just told, a few minutes earlier, that they could not reproduce the issue during 2 test drives? 2 test drives that totaled a whopping 6/10s of one mile? The manager came out and hurried me into his office, as there were plenty of other customers waiting to pick up their own vehicles, many of which who were standing in line right behind me when I was being fed a boat load of bullshit. In the end, they blamed it on the technician, who would be disciplined for falsifying the work he had done. The dealership told me that if Ford does not approve anymore work on my truck, that I need to lawyer up. Ford Customer Service also recommended that I should contact the BBB. Geesh, is this what Ford has become?

 

[HenryMac]

@MotoWojo thanks for keeping us up to date. The stalling issue sounds scary as hell.

Is your truck factory stock or have you done/had modifications done?

 

[jsphlynch]

In the end, they blamed it on the technician, who would be disciplined for falsifying the work he had done.

1) Sure they have a scapegoat, but what else has this dealership falsified? Supposed oil analyses that they won't produce the results on? Claims about Ford no longer will authorize work on fuel dilution? Replacing any of the components of your truck that they claim to have replaced?
2) You have documented evidence that this dealership has falsified warranty claims for Ford. This needs to be reported to Ford corporate.

 

[Zaph]

@MotoWojo it's time. Ford Corporate isn't going to help you. You've got to act on your own to protect your interests.

https://lawyers.findlaw.com/lawyer/practicestate/motor-vehicle-defects/wisconsin

 

[MotoWojo]

@MotoWojo thanks for keeping us up to date. The stalling issue sounds scary as hell.

Is your truck factory stock or have you done/had modifications done?

Factory stock except for aftermarket wheels and tires, no lift.

 

[Joeiconic]

@MotoWojo it's time. Ford Corporate isn't going to help you. You've got to act on your own to protect your interests.

https://lawyers.findlaw.com/lawyer/practicestate/motor-vehicle-defects/wisconsin

Unfortunately, that’s going to cost your more than you are likely to recover. It sounds like you don‘t have a legal lemon law claim and technically you have not incurred any actual damages to recover. Your damages are speculative at this point. You may have to drive it until it breaks and then make your claim. Of course, it may not break.

 

[HenryMac]

Factory stock except for aftermarket wheels and tires, no lift.

Carvana might be good option. Life is to short to have to deal with this kind of shit.

 

[Bludrok]

Well, I just got home from having the truck in for the 14th time. It did not go well. The dealership told me they were unable to reproduce the "stalling" situation after taking the truck out on 2 separate test drives. That sounded plausible, as it has only done it 4 times over the past 1000 miles or so. They recorded (pictures) the high oil level on the dipstick to give to Ford in order for Ford to authorize any more warranty work on the truck. They have already been told by Ford, that Ford will not authorize any more work related to fuel dilution, as it is an inherent condition of all of the Ford DI engines and has been determined not to be harmful to the engine. In my case. we're not talking about a little fuel dilution, 3 oil samples, taken by my dealership, were all double digit fuel contamination, in as little as 500 miles. Two other oil samples were taken, but Ford will not allow them to be shared with me. The earlier samples are posted somewhere in this thread. Anyway, the dealership told me they will pursue the issue based on the high crankcase oil levels and will also pursue the "stalling" issue separately, although they may be related . I told them, I just picked up a dash cam, so when it happens again, I can have a recording, hopefully without anyone getting hurt or killed. They said they would keep me up on the progress with Ford. This all sounded plausible and I thanked them and got in my truck to head home and that is when all hell broke loose.

I started very early on recording each of my visits to the dealer, taking pictures of the odometer while in the dealership drop off bay as well as when I picked up the truck. So what happened was, when I got in the truck to leave, I went to take a pic of my odometer and I noticed there was only .6 miles put on the truck since when I dropped it off. I may have raised my voice a couple times, voicing my displeasure, as I was just told, a few minutes earlier, that they could not reproduce the issue during 2 test drives? 2 test drives that totaled a whopping 6/10s of one mile? The manager came out and hurried me into his office, as there were plenty of other customers waiting to pick up their own vehicles, many of which who were standing in line right behind me when I was being fed a boat load of bullshit. In the end, they blamed it on the technician, who would be disciplined for falsifying the work he had done. The dealership told me that if Ford does not approve anymore work on my truck, that I need to lawyer up. Ford Customer Service also recommended that I should contact the BBB. Geesh, is this what Ford has become?

I am not sure what your lemon laws are in WI, but here in ca one if the things to make it qualify as a lemon is being in the shop for a cumulative total of 30 days since you took possession. Another is any safety issue. A vehicle stalling at a bad time is a serious safety issue.

It might be different where you are, but the California lemon law statue requires the manufacturer to pay for your legal fees if your vehicle is deemed a lemon. This is separate from any settlement you receive, so a lawyer is completely free. They dont get paid unless they win, if they dont think they will win they wont take your case.

Point being, it may not cost you a dime to get a lawyer. Check into it.

 

[N. J. Jim]

@MotoWojo it's time. Ford Corporate isn't going to help you. You've got to act on your own to protect your interests.

https://lawyers.findlaw.com/lawyer/practicestate/motor-vehicle-defects/wisconsin

They can't even fix the poor guys air-conditioning!!

 

[55F100]

Well, I just got home from having the truck in for the 14th time. It did not go well. The dealership told me they were unable to reproduce the "stalling" situation after taking the truck out on 2 separate test drives. That sounded plausible, as it has only done it 4 times over the past 1000 miles or so. They recorded (pictures) the high oil level on the dipstick to give to Ford in order for Ford to authorize any more warranty work on the truck. They have already been told by Ford, that Ford will not authorize any more work related to fuel dilution, as it is an inherent condition of all of the Ford DI engines and has been determined not to be harmful to the engine. In my case. we're not talking about a little fuel dilution, 3 oil samples, taken by my dealership, were all double digit fuel contamination, in as little as 500 miles. Two other oil samples were taken, but Ford will not allow them to be shared with me. The earlier samples are posted somewhere in this thread. Anyway, the dealership told me they will pursue the issue based on the high crankcase oil levels and will also pursue the "stalling" issue separately, although they may be related . I told them, I just picked up a dash cam, so when it happens again, I can have a recording, hopefully without anyone getting hurt or killed. They said they would keep me up on the progress with Ford. This all sounded plausible and I thanked them and got in my truck to head home and that is when all hell broke loose.

I started very early on recording each of my visits to the dealer, taking pictures of the odometer while in the dealership drop off bay as well as when I picked up the truck. So what happened was, when I got in the truck to leave, I went to take a pic of my odometer and I noticed there was only .6 miles put on the truck since when I dropped it off. I may have raised my voice a couple times, voicing my displeasure, as I was just told, a few minutes earlier, that they could not reproduce the issue during 2 test drives? 2 test drives that totaled a whopping 6/10s of one mile? The manager came out and hurried me into his office, as there were plenty of other customers waiting to pick up their own vehicles, many of which who were standing in line right behind me when I was being fed a boat load of bullshit. In the end, they blamed it on the technician, who would be disciplined for falsifying the work he had done. The dealership told me that if Ford does not approve anymore work on my truck, that I need to lawyer up. Ford Customer Service also recommended that I should contact the BBB. Geesh, is this what Ford has become?

Yikes! If that really is Ford's official position on excessive fuel dilution (and not some dealer BS) I'll never buy another car from them...having dealt with the issue as a diesel generator tech it is NOT normal and is a serious problem.

 

[AdamHarris]

People need to understand that “Ford Inc.“ and “Ford dealerships“ are two completely separate entities entirely.

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