Fuel in oil

[N. J. Jim]

Does anyone know if the 2.3 Mustang's fuel pump is the same set up as our Rangers are?

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[N. J. Jim]

Well I just got off the phone with Ford custom so called service. Spoke to a supervisor they tell me there's nothing they can do my truck is operating under normal operating conditions. Oil was just changed at the dealership less than 200 miles ago and was already about a quarter inch from the twist. That's normal operating conditions. Never been this frustrated in my life. Nobody has my back in this mess!!

 

[GregM]

Well I just got off the phone with Ford custom so called service. Spoke to a supervisor they tell me there's nothing they can do my truck is operating under normal operating conditions. Oil was just changed at the dealership less than 200 miles ago and was already about a quarter inch from the twist. That's normal operating conditions. Never been this frustrated in my life. Nobody has my back in this mess!!

Hey Jim you have our Prayers

 

[N. J. Jim]

Not good conditions to operate a vehicle!

 

[jsphlynch]

Wanting to get more information for those of us suffering from low to moderate fuel dilution, I reached out directly to Blackstone for some information about their testing. One of their analysts was kind enough to send me a very detailed response. Here were some of the key points:

In regards to the threshold of 2% fuel for flagging it: "It's not often we find 2.0% fuel (or more) just from normal use or the sampling method, so that's how we've come to consider this amount cautionary."
I read this as meaning they have no indication that above 2% is necessarily damaging, but just that it is unusual enough in their experience that they feel it's worth looking into further. He went on to say, "2.0% is a good rule of thumb for automotive engines across the board, GDI/turbocharged or otherwise."

In regards to the precision of the fuel% determination: "For gasoline engine oil and flashpoint
measurements, every drop of 20F translates to 1% fuel dilution . . . The "should be" flashpoint is based on industry/manufacturer specs for each particular brand/blend . . . Expected re-test variance is about 15F."
I was very glad to hear that they take into account the different baseline flashpoints of different brands of oil, and don't just consider all 5w-30 oils as having the same flashpoint. Since they have a retest variance of ~15F, and every 1% fuel drops the flashpoint by 20F, that means we can consider their reported values as being +/- 0.75%. In other words, if you accept their threshold of 2% as the action level, you probably don't need to get too excited about the occasional 2.5% report, but if you are consistently testing above 2% than it might be cause for concern. On the flip side, if you only had a single test at 1.8%, you might want to keep an eye on these before declaring yourself out of the woods on this issue.

One more bit of advice that he included: "So long as excess fuel doesn't stick around and you aren't noticing anything out of the ordinary, we'd be inclined to give fuel at least some leeway."
I think the key point here is trying to discern what constitutes "out of the ordinary".

FWIW, my oil level fluctuates a little (maybe 1/8th inch up and down the dipstick). The first oil change tested at 6%, and I'll be sending another sample to Blackstone when I do my next oil change in the very near future.

 

[N. J. Jim]

Wanting to get more information for those of us suffering from low to moderate fuel dilution, I reached out directly to Blackstone for some information about their testing. One of their analysts was kind enough to send me a very detailed response. Here were some of the key points:

In regards to the threshold of 2% fuel for flagging it: "It's not often we find 2.0% fuel (or more) just from normal use or the sampling method, so that's how we've come to consider this amount cautionary."
I read this as meaning they have no indication that above 2% is necessarily damaging, but just that it is unusual enough in their experience that they feel it's worth looking into further. He went on to say, "2.0% is a good rule of thumb for automotive engines across the board, GDI/turbocharged or otherwise."

In regards to the precision of the fuel% determination: "For gasoline engine oil and flashpoint
measurements, every drop of 20F translates to 1% fuel dilution . . . The "should be" flashpoint is based on industry/manufacturer specs for each particular brand/blend . . . Expected re-test variance is about 15F."
I was very glad to hear that they take into account the different baseline flashpoints of different brands of oil, and don't just consider all 5w-30 oils as having the same flashpoint. Since they have a retest variance of ~15F, and every 1% fuel drops the flashpoint by 20F, that means we can consider their reported values as being +/- 0.75%. In other words, if you accept their threshold of 2% as the action level, you probably don't need to get too excited about the occasional 2.5% report, but if you are consistently testing above 2% than it might be cause for concern. On the flip side, if you only had a single test at 1.8%, you might want to keep an eye on these before declaring yourself out of the woods on this issue.

One more bit of advice that he included: "So long as excess fuel doesn't stick around and you aren't noticing anything out of the ordinary, we'd be inclined to give fuel at least some leeway."
I think the key point here is trying to discern what constitutes "out of the ordinary".

FWIW, my oil level fluctuates a little (maybe 1/8th inch up and down the dipstick). The first oil change tested at 6%, and I'll be sending another sample to Blackstone when I do my next oil change in the very near future.

A few of us have had fuel dilution into the double fidgets. That is not acceptable and could be dangerous. We should not be forced to drive vehicles around under these conditions!!

 

[jsphlynch]

A few of us have had fuel dilution into the double fidgets. That is not acceptable and could be dangerous. We should not be forced to drive vehicles around under these conditions!!

Absolutely agree. You should be concerned (and mad). There's just a bunch of us that have more fuel than typical, but it's not clear if it represents an actual problem.

 

[CO2Ranger]

Well I just got off the phone with Ford custom so called service. Spoke to a supervisor they tell me there's nothing they can do my truck is operating under normal operating conditions. Oil was just changed at the dealership less than 200 miles ago and was already about a quarter inch from the twist. That's normal operating conditions. Never been this frustrated in my life. Nobody has my back in this mess!!

Ask them to put that in writing. That your vehicle is operating under normal conditions and is safe to drive.

Anything happens to that engine or you and youll enjoy a fat Ford settlement. Any lawyer's wet dream.

 

[N. J. Jim]

Ask them to put that in writing. That your vehicle is operating under normal conditions and is safe to drive.

Anything happens to that engine or you and youll enjoy a fat Ford settlement. Any lawyer's wet dream.

That's gonna be my next step seeing a lawyer. Talked to a supervisor today and just made another call and they tell me nobody can do anything further!

 

[MotoWojo]

Ask them to put that in writing. That your vehicle is operating under normal conditions and is safe to drive.

Anything happens to that engine or you and youll enjoy a fat Ford settlement. Any lawyer's wet dream.

I tried numerous times, whether it was the dealership, Ford Customer Service, or the Ford Field Service Engineer, after being told it was safe to drive my vehicle and ignore the rising oil level, they absolutely would not put that in writing, or on the service ticket, or even in an email. Both the dealership and Ford Customer service both deflected to the decision as coming from the Ford Field Service Engineer, but I was not allowed to have any direst contact with the person. Ford Customer Service went as far to say that the dealership violated policy by giving me a copy of an email they received from the Field Engineer. So, the person making all the decisions on what service is to be done on my truck for this issue, and is the one directing me to drive it without even checking the oil level, and that it is safe to do so, is a person I am not allowed to have any contact with. Sounds like they have their bases covered.

 

[N. J. Jim]

Thinking about filling a report with the NHTSA! See what they think about being ordered to drive around with 12,13, % or even higher of fuel dilution!!

 

[MotoWojo]

That's gonna be my next step seeing a lawyer. Talked to a supervisor today and just made another call and they tell me nobody can do anything further!

Being in the same boat, I can surely relate to how frustrating and hopeless this situation actually is. I have been a lifelong Ford guy, 50+ years, but how they are dealing with this issue is testing my loyalty. How Ford can tell us to ignore the oil level and that it is OK, probably goes against what they state in every Owner's manual they have ever printed. Double digit Fuel contamination is not going to hurt anything, oil viscosity out of spec after 500 miles is not an issue. Obviously, people should not be worried about Oil brand or oil change frequencies below what is recommended, or whether to use synthetic, or synthetic blend, or whatever? Stupid me, I have been buying quality synthetics and changing at shorter intervals for years, I wish Ford would have told me all this a long time ago.

I have resigned myself to the realization that I got a lemon and the only resolution I can foresee, is if the engine let's go before the warranty expires. It really takes the enjoyment out of ownership. I have a pile of aftermarket parts, that I would like to install, but I have been waiting for this issue to be resolved. These parts have been sitting in my garage since springtime.

 

[2ford]

I tried numerous times, whether it was the dealership, Ford Customer Service, or the Ford Field Service Engineer, after being told it was safe to drive my vehicle and ignore the rising oil level, they absolutely would not put that in writing, or on the service ticket, or even in an email. Both the dealership and Ford Customer service both deflected to the decision as coming from the Ford Field Service Engineer, but I was not allowed to have any direst contact with the person. Ford Customer Service went as far to say that the dealership violated policy by giving me a copy of an email they received from the Field Engineer. So, the person making all the decisions on what service is to be done on my truck for this issue, and is the one directing me to drive it without even checking the oil level, and that it is safe to do, is a person I am not allowed to have any contact with. Sounds like they their bases covered.

Except they are in contradiction with their owners manual on excess crank case level

 

[MotoWojo]

Thinking about filling a report with the NHTSA! See what they think about being ordered to drive around with 12,13, % or even higher of fuel dilution!!

Add me to the list.

 

[N. J. Jim]

Add me to the list.

Every phone call I've made I've been using your case as a prime example as to how bad this situation is and how irresponsible this is of Ford. I got so mad today I hung up on the so called supervisor I talked to!

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