Fuel in oil

[2ford]

Hi 2Ford,

Yep....Higher octane burns slower so likely not going to support the supposition of previous posters in my opinion. I was told many times when buying a 5 gallon can of 93 that the octane would burn up my 14:1 compression ratio engine in my Racecar.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Phil
You have me beat 13.5:1 just spent 80 bucks for 5 gallons of 110 so I could take one of my grandsons for a ride. What's in your racecar?
Mines a 400 ci buick in a 82 regal.

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[P. A. Schilke]

Phil,

So you think it's possible that using a higher octane could potentially make a fuel in oil situation worse?

Hi Zaph,

I think the electronics take advantage of the octane slowing due to increased spark and fuel delivery timing, but this thought crossed my mind relative to higher octane. I just do not have enough experience with DI engines to say, but it is a very interesting question that maybe a poll of those getting fuel in the oil should indicate the fuel they run?

I just wish Ford would understand this more than just changing out Leaky injectors or the HPFP replacement. I wish they would get to the bottom of this

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[P. A. Schilke]

Phil
You have me beat 13.5:1 just spent 80 bucks for 5 gallons of 110 so I could take one of my grandsons for a ride. What's in your racecar?
Mines a 400 ci buick in a 82 regal.

Hi 2ford...I had a Formula Supervee. It was 12:1 when I was road racing but when I converted it to an autocross car so my kid could run it...we bumped it up to 14.2:1...I ran VP Hydrocarbon Racing fuel which I got from a Little gas station on the edge of Detroit that serviced Detroit Dragway. Motor did well for the kid as the runs were less than 2 minutes. Biggest pain for me was sorting out the Weber downdraft IDS carbs. My previous IDAs were so much better for some reason. I had a fortune wrapped up in jets, air correctors and emulsion tubes.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[Floyd]

Do you suppose the rings aren't seated properly?
How about a bit of Bon-Ami down its throat?
Not really a suggestion!, but it worked great in many stubborn rebuilts of yesteryear

 

[tfisher15]

Hi Zaph,

I think the electronics take advantage of the octane slowing due to increased spark and fuel delivery timing, but this thought crossed my mind relative to higher octane. I just do not have enough experience with DI engines to say, but it is a very interesting question that maybe a poll of those getting fuel in the oil should indicate the fuel they run?

I just wish Ford would understand this more than just changing out Leaky injectors or the HPFP replacement. I wish they would get to the bottom of this

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

If Ford figures it out, they should tell Honda. Plenty of CRV owners having the same problem since 2017.

 

[N. J. Jim]

Does anyone know if the 2.3 Mustang's fuel pump is the same set up as our Rangers are?

 

[N. J. Jim]

Well I just got off the phone with Ford custom so called service. Spoke to a supervisor they tell me there's nothing they can do my truck is operating under normal operating conditions. Oil was just changed at the dealership less than 200 miles ago and was already about a quarter inch from the twist. That's normal operating conditions. Never been this frustrated in my life. Nobody has my back in this mess!!

 

[GregM]

Well I just got off the phone with Ford custom so called service. Spoke to a supervisor they tell me there's nothing they can do my truck is operating under normal operating conditions. Oil was just changed at the dealership less than 200 miles ago and was already about a quarter inch from the twist. That's normal operating conditions. Never been this frustrated in my life. Nobody has my back in this mess!!

Hey Jim you have our Prayers

 

[N. J. Jim]

Not good conditions to operate a vehicle!

 

[jsphlynch]

Wanting to get more information for those of us suffering from low to moderate fuel dilution, I reached out directly to Blackstone for some information about their testing. One of their analysts was kind enough to send me a very detailed response. Here were some of the key points:

In regards to the threshold of 2% fuel for flagging it: "It's not often we find 2.0% fuel (or more) just from normal use or the sampling method, so that's how we've come to consider this amount cautionary."
I read this as meaning they have no indication that above 2% is necessarily damaging, but just that it is unusual enough in their experience that they feel it's worth looking into further. He went on to say, "2.0% is a good rule of thumb for automotive engines across the board, GDI/turbocharged or otherwise."

In regards to the precision of the fuel% determination: "For gasoline engine oil and flashpoint
measurements, every drop of 20F translates to 1% fuel dilution . . . The "should be" flashpoint is based on industry/manufacturer specs for each particular brand/blend . . . Expected re-test variance is about 15F."
I was very glad to hear that they take into account the different baseline flashpoints of different brands of oil, and don't just consider all 5w-30 oils as having the same flashpoint. Since they have a retest variance of ~15F, and every 1% fuel drops the flashpoint by 20F, that means we can consider their reported values as being +/- 0.75%. In other words, if you accept their threshold of 2% as the action level, you probably don't need to get too excited about the occasional 2.5% report, but if you are consistently testing above 2% than it might be cause for concern. On the flip side, if you only had a single test at 1.8%, you might want to keep an eye on these before declaring yourself out of the woods on this issue.

One more bit of advice that he included: "So long as excess fuel doesn't stick around and you aren't noticing anything out of the ordinary, we'd be inclined to give fuel at least some leeway."
I think the key point here is trying to discern what constitutes "out of the ordinary".

FWIW, my oil level fluctuates a little (maybe 1/8th inch up and down the dipstick). The first oil change tested at 6%, and I'll be sending another sample to Blackstone when I do my next oil change in the very near future.

 

[N. J. Jim]

Wanting to get more information for those of us suffering from low to moderate fuel dilution, I reached out directly to Blackstone for some information about their testing. One of their analysts was kind enough to send me a very detailed response. Here were some of the key points:

In regards to the threshold of 2% fuel for flagging it: "It's not often we find 2.0% fuel (or more) just from normal use or the sampling method, so that's how we've come to consider this amount cautionary."
I read this as meaning they have no indication that above 2% is necessarily damaging, but just that it is unusual enough in their experience that they feel it's worth looking into further. He went on to say, "2.0% is a good rule of thumb for automotive engines across the board, GDI/turbocharged or otherwise."

In regards to the precision of the fuel% determination: "For gasoline engine oil and flashpoint
measurements, every drop of 20F translates to 1% fuel dilution . . . The "should be" flashpoint is based on industry/manufacturer specs for each particular brand/blend . . . Expected re-test variance is about 15F."
I was very glad to hear that they take into account the different baseline flashpoints of different brands of oil, and don't just consider all 5w-30 oils as having the same flashpoint. Since they have a retest variance of ~15F, and every 1% fuel drops the flashpoint by 20F, that means we can consider their reported values as being +/- 0.75%. In other words, if you accept their threshold of 2% as the action level, you probably don't need to get too excited about the occasional 2.5% report, but if you are consistently testing above 2% than it might be cause for concern. On the flip side, if you only had a single test at 1.8%, you might want to keep an eye on these before declaring yourself out of the woods on this issue.

One more bit of advice that he included: "So long as excess fuel doesn't stick around and you aren't noticing anything out of the ordinary, we'd be inclined to give fuel at least some leeway."
I think the key point here is trying to discern what constitutes "out of the ordinary".

FWIW, my oil level fluctuates a little (maybe 1/8th inch up and down the dipstick). The first oil change tested at 6%, and I'll be sending another sample to Blackstone when I do my next oil change in the very near future.

A few of us have had fuel dilution into the double fidgets. That is not acceptable and could be dangerous. We should not be forced to drive vehicles around under these conditions!!

 

[jsphlynch]

A few of us have had fuel dilution into the double fidgets. That is not acceptable and could be dangerous. We should not be forced to drive vehicles around under these conditions!!

Absolutely agree. You should be concerned (and mad). There's just a bunch of us that have more fuel than typical, but it's not clear if it represents an actual problem.

 

[CO2Ranger]

Well I just got off the phone with Ford custom so called service. Spoke to a supervisor they tell me there's nothing they can do my truck is operating under normal operating conditions. Oil was just changed at the dealership less than 200 miles ago and was already about a quarter inch from the twist. That's normal operating conditions. Never been this frustrated in my life. Nobody has my back in this mess!!

Ask them to put that in writing. That your vehicle is operating under normal conditions and is safe to drive.

Anything happens to that engine or you and youll enjoy a fat Ford settlement. Any lawyer's wet dream.

 

[N. J. Jim]

Ask them to put that in writing. That your vehicle is operating under normal conditions and is safe to drive.

Anything happens to that engine or you and youll enjoy a fat Ford settlement. Any lawyer's wet dream.

That's gonna be my next step seeing a lawyer. Talked to a supervisor today and just made another call and they tell me nobody can do anything further!

 

[MotoWojo]

Ask them to put that in writing. That your vehicle is operating under normal conditions and is safe to drive.

Anything happens to that engine or you and youll enjoy a fat Ford settlement. Any lawyer's wet dream.

I tried numerous times, whether it was the dealership, Ford Customer Service, or the Ford Field Service Engineer, after being told it was safe to drive my vehicle and ignore the rising oil level, they absolutely would not put that in writing, or on the service ticket, or even in an email. Both the dealership and Ford Customer service both deflected to the decision as coming from the Ford Field Service Engineer, but I was not allowed to have any direst contact with the person. Ford Customer Service went as far to say that the dealership violated policy by giving me a copy of an email they received from the Field Engineer. So, the person making all the decisions on what service is to be done on my truck for this issue, and is the one directing me to drive it without even checking the oil level, and that it is safe to do so, is a person I am not allowed to have any contact with. Sounds like they have their bases covered.

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