Fuel in oil

[Doc]

I have run premium fuel since my second tank. I first reported my problem at 1600 miles. Oil change and told to check back in a few week. I checked back in last Monday after only 120 miles and I was at the top hole of the stick. They asked me to drive 1000 miles or so and check back in.
Reported to the customer service line at Ford & mail a certified letter and got very little positive feedback. My service rep at the dealership did check in with Ford and I went in this afternoon to see what he heard back. Something about checking the crankcase vent for obstruction? The technician doesn't think it going to make any difference but I'm going to take the truck in next Monday. When they changed my oil they gave me a sample I sent in to Blackstone. They said they removed 6.7 quarts of oil but my report shows only 1.3% fuel. That amount of fuel dilution doesn't alarm me much but I am not sure about the sample because 6.7 quarts would be closer to 7%. I might take another sample before I take it in next week and see what the dilution is.

Sounds like the 6.7 measurement was wrong...1.3% dilution is very good !
Regards

Sponsored

 

[Brisko_Michigan]

I’ll throw this out, not knowing yet if it was the issue: a couple of weeks ago the check engine light came on. Fuel vapor valve (fuel tank sensor) was the culprit. Slow fail; ultimately a simple valve replacement.

I was concurrently in discussion with Ford warranty on the oil level problem.

A Ford engineer spoke with the dealership and advised that the fuel vapor valve issue may have been pushing fuel vapors back into the motor, rather than the exhaust or fuel tank outlet, causing the slow rise in oil level and gas smell. When asked how that could get past circulation systems and into the crank case, Ford offered a reasonable theory.

Ill update after 500 or more miles when we check the level/system again.

May not have been the issue, but the explanation provided was reasonable and cautious; “lets see if that’s it, as it could be.”

We’ll see how it goes and update.

Best recommendation I’ve received was from the dealership advising me to open a case with Ford warranty and customer care. Don’t wait. (and there’s little to lose by saying to Ford “the level is high, please fix it”)

Helped the dealership elevate the matter internally (warranty repair) and forced formal recognition of a problem, now allowing easier ‘next steps’ if this doesn’t work.

 

[Floyd]

Is that enough gasoline to keep the intake valves clean without a catchcan?

 

[GregM]

Just got my results that dealer sent to black stone. Any concerns feel free to respond.

 

[jsphlynch]

Just got my results that dealer sent to black stone. Any concerns feel free to respond.

Looks pretty good to my completely unqualified eye.

One odd observation though: your report says the flashpoint should be >375. I pulled up my first Blackstone report to compare numbers, and it says flashpoint should be >385. Looks back at other members' reports and they appear to be a mix of 375 and 385. That's a small variation for the folks who've had flashpoints measured <300, but it does add to my concern about how precise and reliable Blackstone's determination of % fuel is, since it's extrapolated from the drop in flashpoint.

 

[N. J. Jim]

Well i have had my oil changed 3X in 1746 miles on the clock I saw an issue at 500 miles and kind of played it off as being a new engine and rings not seated yet. Oil changed by dealer and was told to drive another 500 miles and check took it back in at 1500 miles and they saw increased level and told me they were ordering a HPFP gasket and told me it was back ordered( Lie) as I checked with parts and they told me they could get it from Memphis in 2 days So I called them out on it and they told me to bring truck in. They had trick for 4 days and when I called Day 3 they told me they did a Heat soak over night and found #4 injector leaking so they replaced. This all sounds like bull**** to me but I think they are just throwing sh** on the wall to see if it sticks.
I have never owned a vehicle that "made oil" but owned a few that it would disappear in Especially the old Vega's I have one that would use a quart in 50 miles until i got the engine sleeved old timers will remember them.
I don't blame the dealers as much as I blame Ford Engineer's as most dealers try to do the right thing but they are at a loss and my dealer showed me a email from one engineer that said I was not driving the truck enough (Letting it get hot) which is bull as I drive it like I stole it I do have the ford tune on it but this issue happened way before I got it.

Same Bull**** I got taking short trips. Ford needs to grow some b**** and take responsibility for this matter!! This is terrible for a supposedly reputable Company!

 

[Doc]

Just got my results that dealer sent to black stone. Any concerns feel free to respond.

1.3 ...good !
Regards

 

[Brisko_Michigan]

Ford Customer Relations 1-800-392-3673

Just made a phone call to the above number. A somewhat frustrating experience to say the least but I least I made a case and got the case number for my issue. To summarize my customer care person.....I should just drive the truck as normal and give no concern to the fuel dilution. The lady actually said it should quit at 35,000 miles (quit getting fuel in the oil).

I am at a loss for words.....

FWIW - I had a similar experience; nice but not of much help when it came to action at the dealership (which were helpful on their end).

Customer care eventually told me it wasn’t truly their issue, and to call the warranty folks to open a case. That seems to have helped more; they authorized the dealership to start systematically assessing the problem, under warranty coverages.


warranty team - 1-800-321-7790

 

[2ford]

Jumping in, first post.

GDI can lead to improper fuel atomization (depending on a few variables) because the time for the fuel to burn is less than if the fuel injector is further upstream (say, the intake manifold). Fuel can make its way into other areas if not all of is burned.

Higher octane should burn faster. I’m wondering if there is a trend with low octane being a contributing factor to this problem. Oil type and detergent usage is also a factor. For example, there are special oils designed for GDI to promote better fuel atomization.

IIRC, anything over 2.4% fuel in the oil is cause for concern. Less than that I believe is acceptable for a GDI engine.

High octane gas burns slower than lower octane gas and I question your analysis on gdi "because the time for fuel to burn" statement.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

High octane gas burns slower than lower octane gas and I question your analysis on gdi "because the time for fuel to burn" statement.

Hi 2Ford,

Yep....Higher octane burns slower so likely not going to support the supposition of previous posters in my opinion. I was told many times when buying a 5 gallon can of 93 that the octane would burn up my 14:1 compression ratio engine in my Racecar.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[N. J. Jim]

Hey: MotoWojo did your engine seize up yet or are you still running with oil level up to the top of the twist? Have about 160 miles on my latest dealer oil change and already up about a quarter inch above the top hole. I didn't get any guidance at all what to do, the only thing I got was Ford won't let them do anything else because it passed all their checks.REAL NICE!

 

[Zaph]

Hi 2Ford,

Yep....Higher octane burns slower so likely not going to support the supposition of previous posters in my opinion. I was told many times when buying a 5 gallon can of 93 that the octane would burn up my 14:1 compression ratio engine in my Racecar.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Phil,

So you think it's possible that using a higher octane could potentially make a fuel in oil situation worse?

 

[MotoWojo]

Hey: MotoWojo did your engine seize up yet or are you still running with oil level up to the top of the twist? Have about 160 miles on my latest dealer oil change and already up about a quarter inch above the top hole. I didn't get any guidance at all what to do, the only thing I got was Ford won't let them do anything else because it passed all their checks.REAL NICE!

No, engine still seems to be running fine, although there is a new humming sound, at startup, that comes and goes? I am still running around with the oil level at the top of twist and moving up slowly. I have another 2900 miles I have to drive before they will take another oil sample and determine where to go from there. They wanted to see if the fuel dilution gets worse as I rack up miles. I have said it before and I'll say it again, wasn't 12% fuel dilution after only 500 miles enough to justify something is wrong? They took a 3rd sample on the last fix attempt, I should call and find out what that came back at. If I remember correctly, that was about a 1/4-3/8in above the max mark at 1100 miles. I feel like I am part of a science experiment for Ford, I just hope the engine doesn't let go when pulling out in traffic. I was told it is perfectly OK to drive with the oil level at the twist and climbing, and that comes from the Ford Engineer and not the dealership, although they would not give me anything in writing, even when I asked.

If you're at a 1/4in above the max, I would estimate that you will be pushing double digit fuel contamination shortly, if not already. I have to believe Ford knows what is causing it, but it looks like someone will need to get hurt before they are willing to do something about it?

 

[N. J. Jim]

No, engine still seems to be running fine, although there is a new humming sound, at startup, that comes and goes? I am still running around with the oil level at the top of twist and moving up slowly. I have another 2900 miles I have to drive before they will take another oil sample and determine where to go from there. They wanted to see if the fuel dilution gets worse as I rack up miles. I have said it before and I'll say it again, wasn't 12% fuel dilution after only 500 miles enough to justify something is wrong? They took a 3rd sample on the last fix attempt, I should call and find out what that came back at. If I remember correctly, that was about a 1/4-3/8in above the max mark at 1100 miles. I feel like I am part of a science experiment for Ford, I just hope the engine doesn't let go when pulling out in traffic. I was told it is perfectly OK to drive with the oil level at the twist and climbing, and that comes from the Ford Engineer and not the dealership, although they would not give me anything in writing, even when I asked.

If you're at a 1/4in above the max, I would estimate that you will be pushing double digit fuel contamination shortly, if not already. I have to believe Ford knows what is causing it, but it looks like someone will need to get hurt before they are willing to do something about it?

I guess we're gonna have to have a blown engine before they do anything!

 

[Silverfox]

That really sucks. The worst part is I don’t think that level of dilution will damage the internals quickly enough to show until well after the warranty expires.

Sponsored