Downpipe with livernois tuning question

[BoC]

Hi. I'd love some input from those who are more educated on the topic than me. Which, is probably everyone on this forum.

I have Livernois tuning on my ranger with stock engine, exhaust and intake. I wanted to get a full exhaust with downpipe but just called Livernois and they said that due to some BS regulations they are not tuning for downpipe and if I get one I will likely get a check engine light. Any ideas? is this accurate? do I need a special tune or can I just run what I have? Thanks.

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[D Fresh]

Hi. I'd love some input from those who are more educated on the topic than me. Which, is probably everyone on this forum.

I have Livernois tuning on my ranger with stock engine, exhaust and intake. I wanted to get a full exhaust with downpipe but just called Livernois and they said that due to some BS regulations they are not tuning for downpipe and if I get one I will likely get a check engine light. Any ideas? is this accurate? do I need a special tune or can I just run what I have? Thanks.

Probably has to do with the EPA cracking down on aftermarket tuning.

Did you specify catless or catted DP?

 

[BoC]

Probably has to do with the EPA cracking down on aftermarket tuning.

Did you specify catless or catted DP?

Catted. Specifically something like the link below. Sorry and thank you.

https://www.stage3motorsports.com/d...coboost-spd-3-aluminzed-catted-downpipes.html

 

[BoC]

Probably has to do with the EPA cracking down on aftermarket tuning.

Did you specify catless or catted DP?

Honestly I could not care less about the EPA if I tried and am mostly concerned about the check engine light being on all the time... then I won't know if the light is on when something actually happens to the engine. Also the tuning issue, if nobody is tuning for these then how do you get the engine to do what it needs to to give you performance, no backfire etc.

 

[D Fresh]

Catted. Specifically something like the link below. Sorry and thank you.

https://www.stage3motorsports.com/d...coboost-spd-3-aluminzed-catted-downpipes.html

Honestly I could not care less about the EPA if I tried and am mostly concerned about the check engine light being on all the time... then I won't know if the light is on when something actually happens to the engine. Also the tuning issue, if nobody is tuning for these then how do you get the engine to do what it needs to to give you performance, no backfire etc.

While I get that you don't care about the EPA, a company like Livernois HAS to. As of recently the EPA has really cracked down on aftermarket tuning companies, thank you coal rollers. Which is probably why they refuse to to do tuning when emissions equipment has been altered or replaced.

As far as tuners, you could try a different company, or find a local custom tuner.

Or you could go around the back door. Ask Livernois if they'll tweak tunes from data logs, add downpipe, log it, and send in logs for updated tune.

 

[Superdannyboy]

OP I'm looking at this same combination I thought livernois tunes for the downpipe, any updates on what route you took?

 

[HTX1811]

Glad I got my tune for a high flow catted DP before the crackdown.

 

[Superdannyboy]

Glad I got my tune for a high flow catted DP before the crackdown.

Yea it looks like a need the spd catted DP and a tune from 5 star

 

[BoC]

OP I'm looking at this same combination I thought livernois tunes for the downpipe, any updates on what route you took?

Well if you didn’t get in on this before the crackdown I’m afraid you’re out of luck. Livernois did tune for downpipe but not anymore because it’s illegal apparently. Companies now aren’t willing to risk going out of business and have to give in to the fascist government or else. However, I would recommend calling around and talking to see what they can do for you. It won’t hurt and you might figure out a solution that works for you.

 

[Superdannyboy]

Well if you didn’t get in on this before the crackdown I’m afraid you’re out of luck. Livernois did tune for downpipe but not anymore because it’s illegal apparently. Companies now aren’t willing to risk going out of business and have to give in to the fascist government or else. However, I would recommend calling around and talking to see what they can do for you. It won’t hurt and you might figure out a solution that works for you.

5 star won't tune the catless downpipes but they will tune the catted downpipe.

 

[Dgc333]

The issue with down pipes that have no cat or have a high performance cat is they throw a CEL for cat efficiency. Cat efficiency is measured by comparing the upstream O2 sensor to the downstream O2 sensor. If There is not a sufficient difference between the readings of the two O2 sensor the cat is not working within requirements and you get the CEL.

In the past tuners would either;
1. Turn off the downstream O2 sensor which would prevent the CEL from coming on but the status monitors for the O2 sensor would stay in a "Not Ready" state. In some/most states this would prevent you from passing your emissions inspection.
2. Or, take the cat efficiency measurement right out of the ECU. Again no CEL and since the downstream O2 is still functioning the status monitors will set and you can pass your emissions inspection.

Either of these activities are looked upon by the EPA as blatantly defeating of an emissions control system and they are coming down hard on the tuners that do it. You will be hard pressed to find a tuner that is concerned with the future of their business that will do it anymore.

Your best option these days to prevent the CEL is to get an O2 spacer. This screws into the down pipe in the downstream postion and the O2 screws into it. By keeping the O2 sensor out of the direct exhaust flow it does not accurately measure O2 which looks to the ECU as proper cat efficiency.

 

[Langwilliams]

I was thinking about running a catted down pipe but not sure it's worth it now. I think the law is it's illegal for a shop to remove a properly functioning cat from a car with less than 50K on it. Harley got in big trouble with the EPA an paid a massive fine because they were selling tunes that didn't comply to epa standards. Now they will tune your bike for better performance but all their tunes comply now. I was going to wait until the 5/60 warrant expired anyway.

back in the day when I ran with the 5.0/4.6 mustang crowd lots of guys would run catless X pipes. They would "trick" the ecm by installing spark plug anti foulers between the X pipe an rear O2 sensors. This spaced the O2 sensor away from the direct flow of the exhaust giving a little exhaust to read, just enough to make the system think it's seeing cleaner exhaust.

 

[Superdannyboy]

The issue with down pipes that have no cat or have a high performance cat is they throw a CEL for cat efficiency. Cat efficiency is measured by comparing the upstream O2 sensor to the downstream O2 sensor. If There is not a sufficient difference between the readings of the two O2 sensor the cat is not working within requirements and you get the CEL.

In the past tuners would either;
1. Turn off the downstream O2 sensor which would prevent the CEL from coming on but the status monitors for the O2 sensor would stay in a "Not Ready" state. In some/most states this would prevent you from passing your emissions inspection.
2. Or, take the cat efficiency measurement right out of the ECU. Again no CEL and since the downstream O2 is still functioning the status monitors will set and you can pass your emissions inspection.

Either of these activities are looked upon by the EPA as blatantly defeating of an emissions control system and they are coming down hard on the tuners that do it. You will be hard pressed to find a tuner that is concerned with the future of their business that will do it anymore.

Your best option these days to prevent the CEL is to get an O2 spacer. This screws into the down pipe in the downstream postion and the O2 screws into it. By keeping the O2 sensor out of the direct exhaust flow it does not accurately measure O2 which looks to the ECU as proper cat efficiency.

I was thinking about running a catted down pipe but not sure it's worth it now. I think the law is it's illegal for a shop to remove a properly functioning cat from a car with less than 50K on it. Harley got in big trouble with the EPA an paid a massive fine because they were selling tunes that didn't comply to epa standards. Now they will tune your bike for better performance but all their tunes comply now. I was going to wait until the 5/60 warrant expired anyway.

back in the day when I ran with the 5.0/4.6 mustang crowd lots of guys would run catless X pipes. They would "trick" the ecm by installing spark plug anti foulers between the X pipe an rear O2 sensors. This spaced the O2 sensor away from the direct flow of the exhaust giving a little exhaust to read, just enough to make the system think it's seeing cleaner exhaust.

Ahh, great explanation. So either no downpipe and just run the tune or downpipe+tune+spacer.

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