Transmission Issues

[kieefer]

Well I see I’m not the only one.

I drove three Rangers during my shopping spree and drove one that had a lift and larger wheels and felt like the wheels were out of balance. Another one was a CrewCab and it was smooth and quite.
The one I bought I noticed it during the test drive and should have walked away but it was what I wanted in color and options. I remember thinking it acted like water was in the fuel.

I’ve taken my complaints to a couple of dealers with negative results. I did have the tranny TCU reset.
I first thought it was engine related and swapped out the coils for Accel coils. I felt that they did make a difference but I began to feel it again.
Then I rebalanced wheels with no good results and my last attempt was to try a tune. The tune smooth out the throttle response but in my disappointment my vibration it still there, both in D and S mode.

After reading more comments from Phil and a couple of other’s I think they are right in its drive line related, transmission or drive shaft.

I’m ready to put my truck back to stock and let the dealership deal with it. I hate that I need to do this.

I am very curious @P. A. Schilke, how would you know if the D/L is “phased” properly?
Besides that it sounds simple enough for wrench monkey like me to loosen the driveshaft center bearing bolts myself and given a shake and retighten, provided I find out the torque settings.
I would also guess that it’s possible a driveshaft could not have been balanced properly?

Personally Im really skeptical that the dealer is willing or knows the procedures in finding the root cause of this vibration.

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[rdgallo]

Hi Ron,

I have addressed this before in several threads. You are experiencing startup shudder and is inherent with a two piece driveline, which all 5G Rangers have 2 piece D/L. Best is to have the dealer ensure the D/L is phased correctly and loosen the center bearing bolts and shake the D/L and then retighten the bolts. Drive and see if it helps. Sometimes, shimming the center bearing helps as well. There is no harm being done to the vehicle as the shudder is systemic to the D/L design. it is a trade off of design as a one piece driveshaft would have to be a very large diameter to stop the "jumproping" of the driveshaft or the shaft must be made out of a lightweight material like aluminum or composite material.

There are reports of helping by lubing the slip joint and this may be another option. When head of Ranger back in the day, I avoided the two piece D/L by using an aluminum shaft with magniformed ends...Magniforming proved to be a problematic process and the tooling more than once exploded, injuring the operator... A hydraulic crimp would eventually replace the Magniform process.

Wish I could help more but being on the outside looking in on Ford now...not much I can do...

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Thanks much, Phil. I will mention this to my dealer when I take it in. You had posted some of this info earlier and I will try to find that and also take it in. Could you please explain what exactly having the driveline phased correctly means. In an earlier post you said something about the u-joints being in the same plane. Is that what you mean when referring to phasing? Thanks!

 

[RangerLover]

I got to admit I am a little skeptical about buying a Ranger right now.
I was really starting to put the Ranger on the top of my list but all this has me pausing for a bit.
This truck was going to be long term and I have not had good long long term with Chevy.
They are ok if you trade a vehicle in every 3 to 5 years. I do love my Colorado and have had very little issues with it.
The reason i am getting rid of it is my needs of changed and I need more passenger space and less bed space.
Well since this was a long term buy the Taco was at the top of the list but the back seat is just a little to small so that left the Ranger.
It was the most comfortable front and back seat. My Colorado is pretty comfy too..

But I got to say my Focus had allot of transmission problems and so much Ford extended the Warranty on them. I took a hit trading it because by that time people knew about the issue. I do not want to go through that again.

I really like the midsized market and I like all 3 trucks just in different ways. None give me everything I want.

I had one of those piece of crap dual clutch transmission Focus I bought in 2016 new. Finally got Ford to buy that thing back! Now I'm happily driving a Ranger and have no issues whatsoever with its transmission.

 

[DavidR]

Well I see I’m not the only one.



I am very curious @P. A. Schilke, how would you know if the D/L is “phased” properly?
Besides that it sounds simple enough for wrench monkey like me to loosen the driveshaft center bearing bolts myself and given a shake and retighten, provided I find out the torque settings.
I would also guess that it’s possible a driveshaft could not have been balanced properly?

Personally Im really skeptical that the dealer is willing or knows the procedures in finding the root cause of this vibration.

I kinda agree, if ours were having this problem, I would probably try doing some of the easier things myself even though it should be covered by the warranty. Phil will have to answer on the phasing issue, but for things like torque settings and general R&R procedures, you might check the shop manual chapters, many of which are posted here in the forum:

https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/threads/2019-ranger-technical-shop-manuals.1548/

 

[P. A. Schilke]

Thanks much, Phil. I will mention this to my dealer when I take it in. You had posted some of this info earlier and I will try to find that and also take it in. Could you please explain what exactly having the driveline phased correctly means. In an earlier post you said something about the u-joints being in the same plane. Is that what you mean when referring to phasing? Thanks!

Hi Ron,

Yes, the U Joints in the same plane.. I am not sure how the d/l is installed at the assembly plant...all if it at one time or in two separate locations. I crawled under my Ranger and feel they must be keyed some what to help make sure the phasing is correct. That said, it is a simple inspection to ensure the phasing is correct...

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[P. A. Schilke]

Well I see I’m not the only one.

I drove three Rangers during my shopping spree and drove one that had a lift and larger wheels and felt like the wheels were out of balance. Another one was a CrewCab and it was smooth and quite.
The one I bought I noticed it during the test drive and should have walked away but it was what I wanted in color and options. I remember thinking it acted like water was in the fuel.

I’ve taken my complaints to a couple of dealers with negative results. I did have the tranny ECU reset.
I first thought it was engine related and swapped out the coils for Accel coils. I felt that they did make a difference but I began to feel it again.
Then I rebalanced wheels with no good results and my last attempt was to try a tune. The tune smooth out the throttle response but in my disappointment my vibration it still there, both in D and S mode.

After reading more comments from Phil and a couple of other’s I think they are right in its drive line related, transmission or drive shaft.

I’m ready to put my truck back to stock and let the dealership deal with it. I hate that I need to do this.

I am very curious @P. A. Schilke, how would you know if the D/L is “phased” properly?
Besides that it sounds simple enough for wrench monkey like me to loosen the driveshaft center bearing bolts myself and given a shake and retighten, provided I find out the torque settings.
I would also guess that it’s possible a driveshaft could not have been balanced properly?

Personally Im really skeptical that the dealer is willing or knows the procedures in finding the root cause of this vibration.

Hi Kieefer,

D/L imbalance is usually felt through the whole driving range as opposed to just vehicle launch where the d/l shudder occurs. There is a procedure that can be used to try to balance a suspected out of balance driveshaft using two appropriately sized tangential screw clamps (hose clamps)... I can outline the process if you want to try it, but it takes a bit of typing and this one eye cataract deal is driving my crazy right now so keeping the reading and typing to a minimum...

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[kieefer]

Hi Kieefer,

D/L imbalance is usually felt through the whole driving range as opposed to just vehicle launch where the d/l shudder occurs. There is a procedure that can be used to try to balance a suspected out of balance driveshaft using two appropriately sized tangential screw clamps (hose clamps)... I can outline the process if you want to try it, but it takes a bit of typing and this one eye cataract deal is driving my crazy right now so keeping the reading and typing to a minimum...

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Spare yourself.
I going to look underneath and see about loosening the center bearing support, wiggle, retighten.

I certainly hope the service techs know what you’re talking about.

My vibes are more noticeable around 1500-2000 rpm but there’s always something there that is not smooth.

 

[DavidR]

Here's a fun transmission scenario...
Downward hill, sport mode. 5th gear. Restricted back to 4th to maintain speed with other cars. No brakes, just engine braking.
Through the tunnel, up the incline the other side + button to bring back all 8 gears.
Step on the gas and drops to 7th gear and no power. No acceleration. Literally just limped up the slope to the off ramp.
Shifted back to D and continued on.

Just had something very similar to this but at much lower speed. We were climbing up one of the steep, snowy roads here in 4H, transmission in D. I don't recall what gear it was in, but possibly 2 or 3. Near the top there is a turn so I began slowing down and suddenly it seemed like there was little or no power, almost as if it was wanting to downshift but taking forever to do it. The engine also didn't rev, though, so I'm not sure what happened. There's so much computer control that maybe the transmission can lower the throttle during shifts or something. The pause was long enough to be noticeable and a bit disconcerting because I didn't want to lose traction on the snow, but it was over quickly enough that I couldn't really focus my attention on what might actually have been happening.

Fortunately, it doesn't happen very often to that degree, but there are times when the transmission seems to shift slowly in general - usually smoothly, but slowly. This time may have just felt worse because I was going uphill slowly on snow and was worried about losing traction.

 

[DavidR]

@P. A. Schilke , you're becoming famous

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/ford-ranger-forums-blowing-up-with-problems/

 

[P. A. Schilke]

In all fairness they should have quoted him as a retired, former Engineer.
As its written, people will believe he's right from the Blue Oval offices himself and part of the Ranger team as it is today.

Hi RP,

I agree...I always put Retired on the signature,

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[RedlandRanger]

@P. A. Schilke , you're becoming famous

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/ford-ranger-forums-blowing-up-with-problems/

That article didn't appear to be terribly well written. Making some very oversimplified, generalizations, saying there is a "growing chorus of discontent" - it reads like clickbait to me.

And quoting Phil like he was a current part of the Ranger engineers when his signature CLEARLY says he is retired.

 

[Rp930]

That article didn't appear to be terribly well written. Making some very oversimplified, generalizations, saying there is a "growing chorus of discontent" - it reads like clickbait to me.

And quoting Phil like he was a current part of the Ranger engineers when his signature CLEARLY says he is retired.

I would be asking for a retraction. Quoting people out of a forum for an article is BS.

Incidentally I have no shudder or transmission issues. Love the truck.

 

[rdgallo]

Hi Ron,

I have addressed this before in several threads. You are experiencing startup shudder and is inherent with a two piece driveline, which all 5G Rangers have 2 piece D/L. Best is to have the dealer ensure the D/L is phased correctly and loosen the center bearing bolts and shake the D/L and then retighten the bolts. Drive and see if it helps. Sometimes, shimming the center bearing helps as well. There is no harm being done to the vehicle as the shudder is systemic to the D/L design. it is a trade off of design as a one piece driveshaft would have to be a very large diameter to stop the "jumproping" of the driveshaft or the shaft must be made out of a lightweight material like aluminum or composite material.

There are reports of helping by lubing the slip joint and this may be another option. When head of Ranger back in the day, I avoided the two piece D/L by using an aluminum shaft with magniformed ends...Magniforming proved to be a problematic process and the tooling more than once exploded, injuring the operator... A hydraulic crimp would eventually replace the Magniform process.

Wish I could help more but being on the outside looking in on Ford now...not much I can do...

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Thanks for the information, Phil. I greatly appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge of various issues on this great forum. Is there a simple explanation of why the "shudder" would occur at the low speed acceleration and not the higher speeds if the d/l is not phased? I am just curious. I can only assume it has something to do with increased torque loads when taking off.

 

[kieefer]

I loosened my bearing yoke (15mm bolt) which was not very tight and nothing appeared to be in a bind. There was no slack fwd or aft. I then jumped up and down on the tailgate with engine off and in neutral. With the engine on, sitting still i shifted into all gears. Wasn’t sure about driving or rolling while it was loose.
Retighten yoke.

The jury is still out if this made any difference. It did feel better in my short test drive but every time I make a change it feels better but then shows up again.

What was strange was markings on the yoke. It looks like the bolts were tightened in another position at one time, perhaps during partial assembly going down the line, don’t know but I could not move it back into the more rearward position

.https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/threads/transmission-issues.4744/page-10#post-91605

 

[P. A. Schilke]

Thanks for the information, Phil. I greatly appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge of various issues on this great forum. Is there a simple explanation of why the "shudder" would occur at the low speed acceleration and not the higher speeds if the d/l is not phased? I am just curious. I can only assume it has something to do with increased torque loads when taking off.

Hi Ron,

Phasing is reallly getting all the U-joints singing the same song in the same key. U joints are 2nd order excitation sources. Driveshaft speed is first order frequency generator and the U-joints are double the driveshaft frequency. Driveshaft rpm divided by 60 seconds per minute gives driveshaft frequency. Simple example is 600 driveshaft rpm which is also expressed as 10hz and U joints are putting out 20 Hz. Now you can feel 20Hz, but not 10Hz for example so the U joints can be a very big offender of being an excitation frequency. In the world of NVH, you have excitation generators, engine, driveline, tires.

Now on the other hand the vehicle is full of responders, Floorpan/seats, Steering wheel/column, brake and gas pedal and so on. So lets say the seat with you sitting in it coupled to the floorpan has a resonant frequency of 20hz and you have a very nice excitation force at 20hz of the U Joints...so you sitting on your calibrated assometer feel this vibration. The rule of thumb is to separate resonance responders from excitation forces by 10% or more or in the case above by at least 2hz or below 18hz or above 22hz. This is not always possible but if you can reduce the excitation force (amplitude of the vibration at a certain frequency) then your calibrated assometer can't feel this (called numb ass?) and this is done by isolating the excitation frequency....Body mounts,, engine mounts, Driveline center bearing rubbeer mount), spring eye bushings and so on. So the tools of the trade are to reduce excitation forces, move responder resonant frequencies and if all this failes, isolate the excitation.

All the above is and can be a real headach to do, especially since the resonant frequency is the square root of the stiffness (spring rate) over the mass. The damn square root radical is the killer as large changes in stiffness or large changes in mass produce little change in resonance frequency. Whew! Stilll with me? So since the center bearing is mounted in rubber, you have mass of the center bearing and the spring rate of the rubber mounting, So you have a driveline resonance...because the driveline system only resonates at a fixed frequency, as you launch the vehicle and the driveline rpm increases, you effectively drive through this resonance quickly but your assometer perceives this as a shudder.at the lower frequency of a two piece driveine. One piece driveline have such a high resonance frequency that it is outside the operating range, but there is a critical speed where the driveshaft starts to look like a jump rope which is not good.... You move the critical speed by reducing the length of the shaft, use lighter materials than steel and increase diameter of the driveshaft. That is why in some cases shortening the driveshaft via a two piece design is necessary.. Okay? still with me???

Back Story...

At the time of the Aerostar, I had Econoline and Areostar NVH. My engineers were gone for the day when my phone rang and it was our executive engineer who directed me to catch the next flight to St. Louis, the Aerostar plant...The plant identified an absolutely horrible moan in the vehicles they plant evaluated as part of their quality initiative. Puzzled and perplexed, I headed home, packed my suitcase and headed to the Airport to see about catching a flight to St. Louis. I called our travel company and they got me a seat and a rental car on an asap basis. Arrived at the St. Louis plant about 10pm. Plant personnel were waiting for me. First order was to drive one of the new vehicles and they were spot on.. 55mph the moan was so loud converstaion was impossible unless you screamed. WTF???? Day before, everything was going well...
I had to determine what was causing this so we had the repair mechanics loosen the engine to transmission bolts to finger tight and we drove the vehicle and there was no moan...PLant folks were amazed...I had solved the problem! Not quite...as we cannot ship vehicles with loose trans to engine bolts, but it did tell me it was 2n order powertrain bending...yes the powertrain has microscopic flexing. So the question to the plant was what changed...what new parts were put on line yesterday...Only chassis parts, not trim and body parts. The plant had the answer in about an hour...It was now about 1am... There were new rear suspension springs put on line yesterday.. I suspected this was the problem and asked if they had any of the original part number around the plant...Answer was no! Drat...Did they have any older Aerostars around...No! However the plant manager said his Aerostar was out in the lot....So into the plant repair area we swapped the springs between the two vehicles. The offending vehicle was now quiet at 55mph and the plant managers vehicle exhibited the terrible moan. Now i understood the problem...the new springs resulted in a rear suspension resonance excited by second order power train bending. Now the only thing I could do was to see if we could isolate the springs. I asked if there were any parts in the plant that we could make rubber washers about 4" in diameter. Again the plant said no...I told them to pull a mudflap off a trailer and we would use that to make some rubber isolators. Crude cutout but but up to the job, we put thiese round pieces of mudflap into the plant managers vehicle and drove it. The vehicle was quiet, so now we had a fix and mudflaps are pretty durable, so the Plant Manager has the power to make design changes and the plant was directed to make up these spring isolators. and start fitting then to vehicles so they could be shipped and the line restarted at 6am... it was now after 3am, so I got about 3 hours sleep and back to the plant...We verified the isolators were working and there was no moan. So hopped a plane back to Dearborn and we started immediate desiign of spring isolatores. We also proved out in the test lab that the mudflaps had excellent life, so there would be no need to recall these vehicles... Whew....I took the rest of the day off to just sleep.... Still with me???? If you see any Aerostars on the the road, you can bet their rear suspension is running in resonance, but they cannot feel or hear it.....This is the world of vehicle NVH...

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

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