Should Farley be fired?

[Iowa Guy]

It seems to me that Jim Farley is not capable of running the best car company in the world and is taking it down the road to destruction
While the product is still phenomenal, the marketing department has lost it completely and doesn't even know the product.

They can't seem to be able to even come close to meeting demand in production, so they want to become a "car boutique" and sell direct, blaming dealers for gouging (which could not happen if the lots were full)

I say they should quit the finger pointing and the making of excuses, and get back to building cars and trucks in adequate numbers to meet the demand.
Oh! And while they are at it.... slow development of new tech, unless they can support and service what they build!

Its starting to look like Ford needs new, adult, and competent leadership.
The world doesn't need another Toyota or even a mess like Harley Davidson has become.
Rant Over... 'Nuff Sed!

That's not really how cars companies work anymore, they exist to make money for the share holders, not to make cars you want to drive. Thats why everyone is on the Green/EV mode right now. As far as production shortages, the big 3 really got hurt with overseas production, and the failed vision of Just in Time Shipping/Assembly.

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[F150stxguy]

I’m not sure. I only know that each new successive Ford I’ve bought over the years has progressively been worse with build quality and reliability. Believe it or not, the Ford I have now, which is a used 2013 Ford eacape with the 2.5 4 banger has been the most reliable/durable. If I want to, I’ll get 300,000 with this little tank if I want to ride out the crazy car market.

For as much as I loved my 2019 F150, and the 2.7 ecoboost, which gave me zero issues other than a leaking oil pan, the build quality was absolutely garbage and the transmission was the most unrefined I’ve ever driven, right up there with Ford’s power shift garbage they had in their Ford Focuses.

You look at recalls and warranty issues lately from F150 owners, Explorer owners etc, and it seems it’s only gotten progressively worse.

The only reason I would stay with ford is their engines. I trust the 3.3, 2.7, 5.0, 3.5 and even the 2.3 ecoboost over other boosted applications. There’s just too much fleet data and personal testimony showing they’re solid power trains. Ford trucks were also and are also king in the oil fields, they held up better than the others, so it would be hard to move away from them.

But I don’t think the company makes the same product as they did years prior from my own experience.

I wish Ford engineers would put the same quality into aspects of their trucks as they do their engines.

 

[Fritz]

You all need to be a little less narrowly focused. The CEO of this country (who or who 'all is that) screwed your pooch.

Caused inflation and shortages worldwide huh? Must be some kind of diabolical super villain to pull that off.

 

[MountainGoat]

Just in Time Shipping/Assembly

I worked in QC/QA most of my life and always had a terrible feeling about this one. And if I brought it up it was like I insulted someone's mother. "Anything in inventory is wasted money!!" "Go back and reread your ASQ books!", they'd say. Every company was chasing Lean Manufacturing like crazy. Well what happens when you're already lean and the food runs out?

Those companies (medical devices) were also getting 90% of their supply from China, I should check up on them.

 

[Gizmokid2005]

I worked in QC/QA most of my life and always had a terrible feeling about this one. And if I brought it up it was like I insulted someone's mother. "Anything in inventory is wasted money!!" "Go back and reread your ASQ books!", they'd say. Every company was chasing Lean Manufacturing like crazy. Well what happens when you're already lean and the food runs out?

Those companies (medical devices) were also getting 90% of their supply from China, I should check up on them.

This is the answer.

There's some good information (and some crazy theories) in this thread, but if you want to blame anyone, blame Toyota (and subsequently every management "group" since then) for pushing JIT (just-in-time) manufacturing.

It's great for the bottom line because you're not trying to warehouse/store parts that you'd need and do rotations/etc to keep it up to date and fresh, and hey, you can use your weight as a purchaser to bully suppliers into untenable contracts if they fail to meet demand (look at the penalties nearly anyone in the auto supply chain has to pay if they are the cause of a production line stoppage).

The problem is that it doesn't allow for anything other than a perfectly working supply chain from top to bottom. If you get any hiccups in it anywhere, you no longer have a buffer, anywhere, of anything, to rely on when there are delays on supplies. This is true across industries (with about the only exception being food, not entirely but a lot of foods can't stay stable very long without spoiling).

Even Toyota realized the shortcomings in JIT manufacturing decades ago and shifted some of their supply lines away from a solely-JIT design, but still relying on it anywhere is a problem.

There are plenty of other economical factors that play in right now that need to be addressed, but largely it all boils down to failures in managing supply chains because of the push for JIT.

 

[LostMy65]

Caused inflation and shortages worldwide huh? Must be some kind of diabolical super villain to pull that off.

 

[dtech]

Well if you are going to postulate that JIT and Toyota is too blame ( and I see a lot of sense in your post) may as well take it one step further and blame Edwards Deming - who many attribute to enabling the Japanese - inc Yota and Sony to become successful global companies. What is puzzling to many though how long it is taking for the supply chain to rebuild and resupply.

 

[Gizmokid2005]

Well if you are going to postulate that JIT and Toyota is too blame ( and I see a lot of sense in your post) may as well take it one step further and blame Edwards Deming - who many attribute to enabling the Japanese - inc Yota and Sony to become successful global companies

I'm not, I was being facetious. They're not to blame, but the idea (and practice) of JIT is the core problem.

 

[Peragrin]

I hear you, but it depends on the industry. Bicycle makers couldn't keep up with artificially inflated demand during the pandemic, but demand fell and inventories caught up. Now they are discounting them by thousands of dollars for example. If you don't think demand has shifted, you will be forecasting wrong. I get your point about raw materials shortages, but what has happened while you wait is a host of issues which is has flipped the demand curve. Take vehicles or homes....Rates doubled virtually overnight while everyone's 401K's are getting killed. Not so good for consumer confidence?

The issue is the stock market had rebounded. It only goes down when it thinks the fed is going to move .

You also picked a very specific industry. Bikes, rv's are doing something similar. Peoples spending on luxury goods has shifted.

Also pricing is heaivly discounted but still 20% higher than the pandemic.

Things like feminine produxts(maxi pads and tampons) are on allocation ordering because they cant keep up production. Same with diapers, formulas, etc. King crab season just got wiped out things with crab meat will start to vanish soon. Basic consumer products, havent finished

This is the answer.

There's some good information (and some crazy theories) in this thread, but if you want to blame anyone, blame Toyota (and subsequently every management "group" since then) for pushing JIT (just-in-time) manufacturing.

It's great for the bottom line because you're not trying to warehouse/store parts that you'd need and do rotations/etc to keep it up to date and fresh, and hey, you can use your weight as a purchaser to bully suppliers into untenable contracts if they fail to meet demand (look at the penalties nearly anyone in the auto supply chain has to pay if they are the cause of a production line stoppage).

The problem is that it doesn't allow for anything other than a perfectly working supply chain from top to bottom. If you get any hiccups in it anywhere, you no longer have a buffer, anywhere, of anything, to rely on when there are delays on supplies. This is true across industries (with about the only exception being food, not entirely but a lot of foods can't stay stable very long without spoiling).

Even Toyota realized the shortcomings in JIT manufacturing decades ago and shifted some of their supply lines away from a solely-JIT design, but still relying on it anywhere is a problem.

There are plenty of other economical factors that play in right now that need to be addressed, but largely it all boils down to failures in managing supply chains because of the push for JIT.

much easier for for us simple people to understand

There was a supply chain, each link a part of a long chain from raw materials, to distributors, to warehousing, and manufacturers to other distributors to other manufactures, etc before you it got to you. a nut and bolt, for example would pass through a dozen hands before it got put into an item that you bought.

And big companies kept quietly taking links out of that chain, Just in time shipping for every kept that chain lubed but taut. even small hiccups Localized diasters didn't effcet it to much as there was always another supplier, always another distributor who had stock. enough to keep everyone happy.

Then covid Hit and everyone shut down. and I mean everyone. suddenly where there used to be 5 or 6 distributors for an item none of them had stock, everyone is pushing lead times on items. no one can get their stock backup. and if they do get their stock up. do they jealously guard that stock or turn and sell it to the next guy who calls looking for it. because no one else has stuff either.

Grade 8 fasteners have all been but impossible to get on a manufacturing level for 18 months now. The few people making them can't keep up with demand. my company used to stock a range of sizes and a 6 month supply. I have about 10% of that now. What little I can scrounge for is expensive to.

That demand won't go away, a recession won't stop it as during recessions the gun industry is bullet proof. clothing industry is tear resistant, etc.

Yes bikes, and RV's may slow down. but core items those aren't slowing down.

 

[Philvarah]

I’m not sure. I only know that each new successive Ford I’ve bought over the years has progressively been worse with build quality and reliability. Believe it or not, the Ford I have now, which is a used 2013 Ford eacape with the 2.5 4 banger has been the most reliable/durable. If I want to, I’ll get 300,000 with this little tank if I want to ride out the crazy car market.

For as much as I loved my 2019 F150, and the 2.7 ecoboost, which gave me zero issues other than a leaking oil pan, the build quality was absolutely garbage and the transmission was the most unrefined I’ve ever driven, right up there with Ford’s power shift garbage they had in their Ford Focuses.

You look at recalls and warranty issues lately from F150 owners, Explorer owners etc, and it seems it’s only gotten progressively worse.

The only reason I would stay with ford is their engines. I trust the 3.3, 2.7, 5.0, 3.5 and even the 2.3 ecoboost over other boosted applications. There’s just too much fleet data and personal testimony showing they’re solid power trains. Ford trucks were also and are also king in the oil fields, they held up better than the others, so it would be hard to move away from them.

But I don’t think the company makes the same product as they did years prior from my own experience.

I wish Ford engineers would put the same quality into aspects of their trucks as they do their engines.

Ford does have the engines vs. competition.

 

[LostMy65]

The issue is the stock market had rebounded. It only goes down when it thinks the fed is going to move .

You also picked a very specific industry. Bikes, rv's are doing something similar. Peoples spending on luxury goods has shifted.

Also pricing is heaivly discounted but still 20% higher than the pandemic.

Things like feminine produxts(maxi pads and tampons) are on allocation ordering because they cant keep up production. Same with diapers, formulas, etc. King crab season just got wiped out things with crab meat will start to vanish soon. Basic consumer products, havent finished

much easier for for us simple people to understand

There was a supply chain, each link a part of a long chain from raw materials, to distributors, to warehousing, and manufacturers to other distributors to other manufactures, etc before you it got to you. a nut and bolt, for example would pass through a dozen hands before it got put into an item that you bought.

And big companies kept quietly taking links out of that chain, Just in time shipping for every kept that chain lubed but taut. even small hiccups Localized diasters didn't effcet it to much as there was always another supplier, always another distributor who had stock. enough to keep everyone happy.

Then covid Hit and everyone shut down. and I mean everyone. suddenly where there used to be 5 or 6 distributors for an item none of them had stock, everyone is pushing lead times on items. no one can get their stock backup. and if they do get their stock up. do they jealously guard that stock or turn and sell it to the next guy who calls looking for it. because no one else has stuff either.

Grade 8 fasteners have all been but impossible to get on a manufacturing level for 18 months now. The few people making them can't keep up with demand. my company used to stock a range of sizes and a 6 month supply. I have about 10% of that now. What little I can scrounge for is expensive to.

That demand won't go away, a recession won't stop it as during recessions the gun industry is bullet proof. clothing industry is tear resistant, etc.

Yes bikes, and RV's may slow down. but core items those aren't slowing down.

If firing Farley will turn all this around, then I vote yes. Fire him now!

 

[Philvarah]

The issue is the stock market had rebounded. It only goes down when it thinks the fed is going to move .

You also picked a very specific industry. Bikes, rv's are doing something similar. Peoples spending on luxury goods has shifted.

Also pricing is heaivly discounted but still 20% higher than the pandemic.

Things like feminine produxts(maxi pads and tampons) are on allocation ordering because they cant keep up production. Same with diapers, formulas, etc. King crab season just got wiped out things with crab meat will start to vanish soon. Basic consumer products, havent finished

much easier for for us simple people to understand

There was a supply chain, each link a part of a long chain from raw materials, to distributors, to warehousing, and manufacturers to other distributors to other manufactures, etc before you it got to you. a nut and bolt, for example would pass through a dozen hands before it got put into an item that you bought.

And big companies kept quietly taking links out of that chain, Just in time shipping for every kept that chain lubed but taut. even small hiccups Localized diasters didn't effcet it to much as there was always another supplier, always another distributor who had stock. enough to keep everyone happy.

Then covid Hit and everyone shut down. and I mean everyone. suddenly where there used to be 5 or 6 distributors for an item none of them had stock, everyone is pushing lead times on items. no one can get their stock backup. and if they do get their stock up. do they jealously guard that stock or turn and sell it to the next guy who calls looking for it. because no one else has stuff either.

Grade 8 fasteners have all been but impossible to get on a manufacturing level for 18 months now. The few people making them can't keep up with demand. my company used to stock a range of sizes and a 6 month supply. I have about 10% of that now. What little I can scrounge for is expensive to.

That demand won't go away, a recession won't stop it as during recessions the gun industry is bullet proof. clothing industry is tear resistant, etc.

Yes bikes, and RV's may slow down. but core items those aren't slowing down.

There was a shortage of guns last year... I know... Was chasing buying ARs... 300 Blks... and ammo.

 

[Philvarah]

There was a shortage of guns last year... I know... Was chasing buying ARs... 300 Blks... and ammo.

One day... Maybe not in my lifetime... We will have some U. S. manufacturing brought back here state side .... Maybe a Federal law is needed to have our main industries ...as it relates to National Security and the economy... be at minimum 50% made here.
I realize president Nixon opened the door to China in the 60's when they were all in 'Rickshaws'... And we all embraced a world economy... Capitalism exploded more... Manufacturing moved away from America...We as consumers wanted it all now and cheap to buy
Make it cost effective...and corporations with the help of modern science, production, computers and software numbers crunching made kit all easier profit driven.
No president had are backs... They all looked away as China became the world power and makes everything including drugs, computer chips...safety masks etc... things we use to make that are of need and National Security for a solvent independent U.S. economy.
The CEOs looked away too... Allowing foreign countries to dictate our supply chain...
Ford is broke... They can't manufacture hardly anything... Majority of skus outsourced and no monies to have extra inventory...and no leadership and foresight to see it all coming.
Hope the 2024 Ranger is great and that Ford will deliver more than one Ranger a month to each dealer inflating current MSRPs and taking away from our hard earned pocketbooks. ... I digress....
I still love Ford ..love my new Ranger...
Hope they survive and my stock goes back up!

 

[mountainmerit]

I hear you, but it depends on the industry. Bicycle makers couldn't keep up with artificially inflated demand during the pandemic, but demand fell and inventories caught up. Now they are discounting them by thousands of dollars for example. If you don't think demand has shifted, you will be forecasting wrong. I get your point about raw materials shortages, but what has happened while you wait is a host of issues which is has flipped the demand curve. Take vehicles or homes....Rates doubled virtually overnight while everyone's 401K's are getting killed. Not so good for consumer confidence?

I work for a manufacturer in the bicycle industry that serves OEM and aftermarket - making stuff here in WNC - pretty easy to guess as there are only two of us... It's not a fully symmetrical inventory recovery across the board. Shimano is still a long way out, a GRX group I ordered in January via my OEM contact there is still en route, and other groupsets are still impossible to get. But you see others (us included) that are building inventory and will be discounting selectively soon for the Holiday season, which is something we never have done in the past.

I think when you see brands that are blowing stuff out it's because they're in a cash flow pinch due to SRAM and Shimano not having full group availability (or Fox/RS having forks but no shocks or vice versa) coupled with Asian frame manufacturers not increasing capacity, and/or being way off the back due to work stoppages. They're just trying to scrape up some bucks with what they have, and here we are... From what I'm seeing it's not like "bikes are back in stock," it's "we have to sell what we have because it's all we have..."

 

[Deleted member 15875]

I work for a manufacturer in the bicycle industry that serves OEM and aftermarket - making stuff here in WNC - pretty easy to guess as there are only two of us... It's not a fully symmetrical inventory recovery across the board. Shimano is still a long way out, a GRX group I ordered in January via my OEM contact there is still en route, and other groupsets are still impossible to get. But you see others (us included) that are building inventory and will be discounting selectively soon for the Holiday season, which is something we never have done in the past.

I think when you see brands that are blowing stuff out it's because they're in a cash flow pinch due to SRAM and Shimano not having full group availability (or Fox/RS having forks but no shocks or vice versa) coupled with Asian frame manufacturers not increasing capacity, and/or being way off the back due to work stoppages. They're just trying to scrape up some bucks with what they have, and here we are... From what I'm seeing it's not like "bikes are back in stock," it's "we have to sell what we have because it's all we have..."

We've seen lots of CFO's deal with less working capital than what they are comfortable with as they started hoarding inventory based on long lead times so yes, working capital is a real issue. There's also the notion of price elasticity of demand at play. When Yeti and Specialized recently reduced their bikes by thousands of dollars, I took notice as this is rare for high end bikes. IMO, the bicycle market is largely saturated and was/is due for some correction. You can buy a new KX450 for $6999 OTD right now. NEW!

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