PSA For you folks that are removing / modifying the crash bars to install bigger tires.....

[t4thfavor]

What is the liability if the truck is sold and the new owner is injured in a crash because the crash protection system was altered?

If you sell a truck, make the new owner sign a waiver of responsibility. Else you’re probably fair game for the ambulance chaser kind of attorney. This goes for any sale though, not just if you modified it.

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[Langwilliams]

Except that the contract was written poorly. Under the contract, a seat cover was a mod which is preposterous.

Also to note, he used a Broker who saw the vehicle and knew what it was, but still checked no mods.

I am very much on the side of personal responsibility for choices we make, and accepting what comes, but there is some middle ground in the case which is why the insurance company was held partial liability.

Agreed. I was an insurance agent at one time an they always stressed that a poorly written contract will generally be interpreted in favor of the client. When discussing the policy you have to be careful not to imply coverage verbally that's not written in the contract. Lawyers, courts an insurance companies pi$$ me off. You take someone's money for years an when they really need you they look for a loophole to not cover you. I also hate people looking for a quick easy payday suing someone over something minor for a quick buck. My kid was hit by a car on his bike once when he was around 14. We had letters come every day from a lawyer wanting to represent us. We didn't want to sue because it was an accident an he was ok other than some scrapes an bruises. Had he suffered an injury that was going to cause problems for a long time it might have been different. But he didn't need any long term care.

Unless I missed it that link didn't discuss the specifics of the accident, just explained the fight over coverage. I'd like to know if the injury could be directly traced to the mod of "larger tires and wheels". Removing the crash bar could but it'd be a one in a million (or what ever) accident. I imagine a lifted truck could have the bumper so high it misses the car it hits bumper or door guard. What about those massive heavy steel off road bumpers hitting normal mild steel.

 

[JACKSMYDOG]

Agreed. I was an insurance agent at one time an they always stressed that a poorly written contract will generally be interpreted in favor of the client. When discussing the policy you have to be careful not to imply coverage verbally that's not written in the contract. Lawyers, courts an insurance companies pi$$ me off. You take someone's money for years an when they really need you they look for a loophole to not cover you. I also hate people looking for a quick easy payday suing someone over something minor for a quick buck. My kid was hit by a car on his bike once when he was around 14. We had letters come every day from a lawyer wanting to represent us. We didn't want to sue because it was an accident an he was ok other than some scrapes an bruises. Had he suffered an injury that was going to cause problems for a long time it might have been different. But he didn't need any long term care.

Unless I missed it that link didn't discuss the specifics of the accident, just explained the fight over coverage. I'd like to know if the injury could be directly traced to the mod of "larger tires and wheels". Removing the crash bar could but it'd be a one in a million (or what ever) accident. I imagine a lifted truck could have the bumper so high it misses the car it hits bumper or door guard. What about those massive heavy steel off road bumpers hitting normal mild steel.

It also brings liability of the Broker into question. They are supposed to be the interpreter of sorts to guide the applicant through the legalese of the contract. If the broker was deemed competent by the Insurance company he represented, and had knowledge of the vehicle in question, then marked the application as not modified either through lack of understanding of the contract, or willfully misrepresenting it, they should/do hold some responsibility/liability.

With that said, I think there is more to the story which is possibly why the insurance company was resistant. It may well have been two friends deep in shenanigans and making up a crazy story for a false claim.

From the report:

In July 2002, Appellee suffered injuries when his foot and ankle were run over by a Ford F-250 truck owned by Michael Roberts and insured under a policy issued by Mercury.

 

[Langwilliams]

It also brings liability of the Broker into question. They are supposed to be the interpreter of sorts to guide the applicant through the legalese of the contract. If the broker was deemed competent by the Insurance company he represented, and had knowledge of the vehicle in question, then marked the application as not modified either through lack of understanding of the contract, or willfully misrepresenting it, they should/do hold some responsibility/liability.

With that said, I think there is more to the story which is possibly why the insurance company was resistant. It may well have been two friends deep in shenanigans and making up a crazy story for a false claim.

From the report:

I was never an independent agent or broker an I barely remember my insurance days. Fraud never entered my mind so good call.

 

[ParkerAzJeff]

I always have PRECIOUS CARGO, My wife and grandchildren, so I'll leave the crash bars in!

 

[RedDakooter05]

I never took an arrow to the knee, nor will I take a hankook to the knee.

 

[Bradurl]

What if I were to use the rear intrusion beam mount pocket as the forward mount for my rock sliders. I plan on building my own sliders with 3 mounting points total and that would give the rear intrusion beam a lot more strength. I believe that the front intrusion beams are engineered to crumple but the rear ones only job is to prevent any intrusion into the footwell. Thoughts?

 

[Langwilliams]

What if I were to use the rear intrusion beam mount pocket as the forward mount for my rock sliders. I plan on building my own sliders with 3 mounting points total and that would give the rear intrusion beam a lot more strength. I believe that the front intrusion beams are engineered to crumple but the rear ones only job is to prevent any intrusion into the footwell. Thoughts?

I think there is such a thing as too much structural strength. Sometimes the design is to absorb the shock or redirect it away from the passenger compartment. A strong solid mount might transfer energy directly to the passengers in a negative way. It might improve safety too. Maybe some of the engineering background guys will chime in. My three boys are all engineers but none work in auto design.

 

[Bradurl]

Looking at the rear crash bar it does look like it's definitely designed to give way until it hits the giant cab mount where it will then present an angle to deflect the tire outward. The cab mount is huge and the frame would have to bend at that point in order for the cab to deform. I'm not an engineer but I believe that was what they had in mind when they designed it. My thought was to build it with the angle already built in like the fabtech rear beam. Thank you I appreciate the feedback.

 

[Squatchranger]

Are you aware that those crash bars that some of you are removing so you can install bigger tires.... they are there to protect your legs in the event of an accident.

This crash test video helps to explain why... "That's because the test dummy indicated a "significant risk of injury" to a real person's right leg due to some intrusion into the cabin."

Be careful out there. If you get hurt because of changes you've made, that's one thing. But imagine if your passenger gets hurt... that would be hard to live with.

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicl...ickup/2019#small-overlap-front-passenger-side

http://fordauthority.com/2019/07/2019-ford-ranger-crash-test-results-are-in-video/

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a28244001/2019-ford-ranger-iihs-crash-testing/

So here is a fact you will find interesting, the bronco sasquatch f150 raptor and international ford rangers don't have crash bars. Another fact is that Rocky Ridge rangers and f150's have their crash bars removed by Rocky ridge and still retain full factory warranty and support. (they work directly with ford and get their vehicles from them then sell to dealerships). I would think that ford would avoid backing and maintaining their full warranty and support for something that presents an appreciable or significant increase in risk and opens them up to a myriad of lawsuits. Are they a good safety feature sure are they as important as you seem to make them out to be? No.

 

[Squatchranger]

Wouldn’t it be true that any part could be deemed a violation of a safety standard, warranty violation etc if it’s not exactly what the vehicle came with or when the crash tests were conducted ?

Slippery slope fellas…. Mod YOUR trucks how you want and like anything else weigh the risks vs benefits. ??

Consider this, Rocky ridge rangers and f150's have their crash bars removed yet still retain full warranty and support from ford.....

 

[Dhass68]

Stupid Ford wasting money on these crash bars for no reason, should have deleted them and installed a tailgate damper and not deleted the extra bed tie down, damn engineers not knowing anything

 

[DukeCanBuildit]

This is my favourite debate on ranger5g because:

• we don’t know Jack about the effectiveness of aftermarket crash bars
• I haven’t seen any data on crash testing with vs without crash bars
• it’s still not clear what insurers would do
• we make up own analysis of the strength of the aftermarket bars
• we interpret mfg claims to justify the decisions we’ve already made
• we play armchair design expert

I have ReadyLIFTS and when I bought them, I opened the box, cradled one of the large front bars in my hand, raised it up and down a few times, smiled and exclaimed, “Man, these are beefy”.

Did I ask myself if I thought they were as strong, safer, better, or covered by insurance? No, because I didn’t know the answers and it just didn’t matter.

When I renovate someone’s place, I take the same approach to interior decorating questions. When someone asks me, “How many throw cushions should I put on the couch”?, I don’t know how many and it just doesn’t matter.

If someone asked me if I thought aftermarket crash bars were a good idea, I’d say, “I don’t know”.

BTW - the answer to the question about couch cushions is, “As many as your wife tells you to”.

 

[JDowns]

2015 was the year Ford got dinged for not including the crash bars on F150 extended cabs vs crew cabs. Watch some videos on the side overlap and oblique tests from the IIHS comparing the two models.

As for insurance. I asked when I lifted my F150. I paid a 30% increase in premiums to ensure I was covered. It would likely be the same on the Ranger.

After watching some of the tests and how well the Ranger performs. I've decided that after 50+ years of walking without a limp, I'd like to keep it that way.

In the end do what you want its your truck ... just make informed decisions.

 

[Squatchranger]

wtf does warranty and support have to do with them?

its no different than tires, change them out as you see fit, just understand the liability shifts if there is an instance where the change made a difference.
The bars may be worthless in the vast majority of crashes, but so is the use of high strength steel in the A and B pillars.
but that one time.......someone will be happy they were there.

If the modification is responsible for the danger legally the one who does the modification knowingly while still backing it fully would have culpability. By performing and supporting the modifications Ford and Rocky ridge assume responsibility for them. Driving is a calculated risk as it is, but ultimately in nearly every crash that would involve those crash bars the driver would be the one who screwed up so badly that even the safety systems couldn't intervene enough. I don't think ford or rocky ridge would risk culpability for those crashes if there was an appreciable risk. Also the models used in europe and australia as well as the raptor versions dont even have them so.

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