Fuel in oil

[CO2Ranger]

I agree.
As soon as I posted my previous comment I thought about the rapidly rising oil levels you've experienced and wondered how that would turn out. I honestly hope they figure it out for those that have that much fuel.

I read the service manual here on the site and don't see many failure points outside leaky injectors given the fuel pumps already been replaced.

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[Da Ranger]

I have been calling Ford every couple of weeks. Finally Thursday they set me up to go in June 9th for diagnostics. I told them the service manager wanted me to put 10k miles on the last oil change and I’m not comfortable with that since I just had 6.8% fuel dilution in my last oil change. Good thing I haven’t really been driving lately.

Really hope they get this figured out and there is no internal engine damage since I really wanted this to be my last vehicle purchase.

 

[jsphlynch]

I was trying to find more information about this potential issue, and came across the following article from a 2009 issue of MTZ Worldwide about the creation of the 3.5 L V6 Ecoboost, written by a bunch of folks at Ford.

Here's the Link. (Note: Since this is Springer, it might be paywalled, depending on where you're accessing it from).

The key quote for this thread is:
"Through this methodology, the combustion system achieved the program objectives:
. . .
– under all operating conditions, undetectable fuel/cylinder impingement and fuel/oil dilution comparable to other direct fuel injected engines (approximately 5 % dilution). " (My emphasis)

So if I understand this correctly, getting fuel dilution of ~5% is within the stated goals of engine development for this predecessor to our engine. If that's true, and thus the 6% that showed up on my first UOA may not be as damaging as I feared it might be.

 

[aeroshots]

Concerned ?. Guess I'll wait a while before installing my recently purchase tune.

 

[Porpoise Hork]

This article goes into detail on the issues the implementation of GDI engines has caused with oil contamination and that the latest oil formulations like API SN Plus Resource Conserving and ACEA spec synthetic motor oils (European engine oil) are combating the issue.

The basic take-away from it is fuel blow-by oil contamination/dilution is an issue with GDI engines. It also looks like currently US motor oil formulas do not appear to be able to stop this dilution issue. While API SN Plus Resource Conserving rated oil is better at this, using ACEA spec synthetic motor oils might be worth testing to see if it helps mitigate the excessive fuel blow-by.

 

[NvrFinished]

This article goes into detail on the issues the implementation of GDI engines has caused with oil contamination and that the latest oil formulations like API SN Plus Resource Conserving and ACEA spec synthetic motor oils (European engine oil) are combating the issue.

The basic take-away from it is fuel blow-by oil contamination/dilution is an issue with GDI engines. It also looks like currently US motor oil formulas do not appear to be able to stop this dilution issue. While API SN Plus Resource Conserving rated oil is better at this, using ACEA spec synthetic motor oils might be worth testing to see if it helps mitigate the excessive fuel blow-by.

This was an interesting read. I have 1800 miles on my Ranger and will be changing the oil soon. I haven't detected the gas smell, but I think I will have an oil analysis done.

A forum member in an oil thread posted that he was going to use Mobil 1 Annual Protection 5W-30 since it was recommended by Mobil 1 for for the Ranger. Looking at the specs, it meets the API SN Pluse Resource Conserving requirements as well as ACEA A5/B5 requirements.

Which ACEA requirements would be best for this engine was not stated in the article (that I could find anyways). ACEA A5/B5 is as follows:

"ACEA A5/B5 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil intended for use at extended Drain Intervals in Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & Diesel Engines designed to be capable of using Low Viscosity Oils with HTHS Viscosity of 2.9 to 3.5 mPa*s. These Oils are unsuitable for use in certain Engines - consult vehicle-OEM’s owner’s manual/handbook in case of doubt. "

Unless there is something more suitable, I think I'm going to give this oil a shot. Thoughts?

 

[CO2Ranger]

This was an interesting read. I have 1800 miles on my Ranger and will be changing the oil soon. I haven't detected the gas smell, but I think I will have an oil analysis done.

A forum member in an oil thread posted that he was going to use Mobil 1 Annual Protection 5W-30 since it was recommended by Mobil 1 for for the Ranger. Looking at the specs, it meets the API SN Pluse Resource Conserving requirements as well as ACEA A5/B5 requirements.

Which ACEA requirements would be best for this engine was not stated in the article (that I could find anyways). ACEA A5/B5 is as follows:

"ACEA A5/B5 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil intended for use at extended Drain Intervals in Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & Diesel Engines designed to be capable of using Low Viscosity Oils with HTHS Viscosity of 2.9 to 3.5 mPa*s. These Oils are unsuitable for use in certain Engines - consult vehicle-OEM’s owner’s manual/handbook in case of doubt. "

Unless there is something more suitable, I think I'm going to give this oil a shot. Thoughts?

According to the manual spec and Mobil1s sheet both Annual Protection and Extended Performance 5w30 meet Ford's requirements for our Rangers. I ordered Extended Performance and Motorcraft filters. Wish me luck!

 

[HenryMac]

A forum member in an oil thread posted that he was going to use Mobil 1 Annual Protection 5W-30 since it was recommended by Mobil 1 for for the Ranger. Looking at the specs, it meets the API SN Pluse Resource Conserving requirements as well as ACEA A5/B5 requirements...... Unless there is something more suitable, I think I'm going to give this oil a shot. Thoughts?

Link to the Mobil 1 Annual Protection Thread

 

[Porpoise Hork]

This was an interesting read. I have 1800 miles on my Ranger and will be changing the oil soon. I haven't detected the gas smell, but I think I will have an oil analysis done.

A forum member in an oil thread posted that he was going to use Mobil 1 Annual Protection 5W-30 since it was recommended by Mobil 1 for for the Ranger. Looking at the specs, it meets the API SN Pluse Resource Conserving requirements as well as ACEA A5/B5 requirements.

Which ACEA requirements would be best for this engine was not stated in the article (that I could find anyways). ACEA A5/B5 is as follows:

"ACEA A5/B5 Stable, stay-in-grade Engine Oil intended for use at extended Drain Intervals in Passenger Car & Light Duty Van Gasoline & Diesel Engines designed to be capable of using Low Viscosity Oils with HTHS Viscosity of 2.9 to 3.5 mPa*s. These Oils are unsuitable for use in certain Engines - consult vehicle-OEM’s owner’s manual/handbook in case of doubt. "

Unless there is something more suitable, I think I'm going to give this oil a shot. Thoughts?

Recently I found out that Mobile 1 along with a large percentage of the private label oils on the market are produced by Warren Distributing. Curious to what brands Warren Distributing covers I found this list.

https://engineoil.api.org/Directory/EolcsResultsDetail?accountId=-1&companyId=10297


I also researched US available oils and saw that the GM rated 1 DEXOS Gen2 compliant oils meets or exceeds ACEA C3 standards.


https://www.gmdexos.com/brands/dexos1/index.html

What caught my eye was Amazon Basics 5w-30 Full Synthetic. Not only is it 1 DEXOS 2 approved, but it's produced by Warren Distributing. And it's fairly inexpensive compared to the prices at the local auto parts stores.

Bottom line is you don't have to necessarily spring for a specific brand as most of them are made by the same company anyway. And as long as they are 1 DEXOS Gen 2 rated they are in line with ACEA standards. Which is of course better for our engines anyway.

 

[2ford]

I was trying to find more information about this potential issue, and came across the following article from a 2009 issue of MTZ Worldwide about the creation of the 3.5 L V6 Ecoboost, written by a bunch of folks at Ford.

Here's the Link. (Note: Since this is Springer, it might be paywalled, depending on where you're accessing it from).

The key quote for this thread is:
"Through this methodology, the combustion system achieved the program objectives:
. . .
– under all operating conditions, undetectable fuel/cylinder impingement and fuel/oil dilution comparable to other direct fuel injected engines (approximately 5 % dilution). " (My emphasis)

So if I understand this correctly, getting fuel dilution of ~5% is within the stated goals of engine development for this predecessor to our engine. If that's true, and thus the 6% that showed up on my first UOA may not be as damaging as I feared it might be.

I never had fuel dilution in my 2011 DI 2.4 buick had 40k on it when I traded it in. I did my oil changes never ever had increased level in oil never any fuel dilution

 

[HenryMac]

I never had fuel dilution in my 2011 DI 2.4 buick had 40k on it when I traded it in. I did my oil changes never ever had increased level in oil never any fuel dilution

Every internal combustion engine has fuel dilution. Rings leak, it's the nature of the beast.

Your Buick had it, but the fuel dilution was within spec, therefore it wasn't a problem.

Ford will get this sorted out. It's the price you pay for buying new(ish) technology.

 

[2ford]

Every internal combustion engine has fuel dilution. Rings leak, it's the nature of the beast.

Your Buick had it, but the fuel dilution was within spec, therefore it wasn't a problem.

Ford will get this sorted out. It's the price you pay for buying new(ish) technology.

Explain what you call fuel dilution please. In my experience every engine may have a certain amount of "BLOW BY " which is spent combustion gases. The higher the cylinder pressure the more blow by depending on how well the rings have seated. Brand new engines will usually have more blow by gases till the rings seat. If any minuscule amount of non combusted fuel is in the blow by gases it would be re absorbed by the pcv system or evaporate when engine oil temperatures get up to normal operating temps. If what you are suggesting is true especially with the amount of gas in the oil that is happening to these folks that would be like in kind to cylinder washout which would effect the rings seating among other issues and is not normal. And I will repeat I had no gas EVER in my GDI regal nor in any of the vehicles I have owned that caused the oil to smell like gas or increase the crank case oil level.

 

[HenryMac]

Explain what you call fuel dilution please. In my experience every engine may have a certain amount of "BLOW BY " which is spent combustion gases. The higher the cylinder pressure the more blow by depending on how well the rings have seated. Brand new engines will usually have more blow by gases till the rings seat. If any minuscule amount of non combusted fuel is in the blow by gases it would be re absorbed by the pcv system or evaporate when engine oil temperatures get up to normal operating temps. If what you are suggesting is true especially with the amount of gas in the oil that is happening to these folks that would be like in kind to cylinder washout which would effect the rings seating among other issues and is not normal. And I will repeat I had no gas EVER in my GDI regal nor in any of the vehicles I have owned that caused the oil to smell like gas or increase the crank case oil level.

I agree with everything your saying... except... "I never had fuel dilution".. every internal combustion gasoline motor experiences it on some level.. It just normally not excessive, but it is always there.

Any fuel in the crankcase causes fuel dilution. This happens especially when the motor is cold. Once the motors comes up to temperature then the fuel, and any condensation, turns to vapors and are typically evacuated from the crankcase by the PCV system, if your vehicle has one.

My point is.. fuel dilution happens, it in itself is nothing new. The issue the folks are having is something other than the normal blow by.

Ford is working their way through the issue, and it appears they are finding it is high pressure fuel pump or injector related.... not blow by related.

As I said Ford will get this sorted out. It's the price you pay for buying new(ish) technology.

 

[N. J. Jim]

I agree with everything your saying... except... "I never had fuel dilution".. every internal combustion gasoline motor experiences it on some level.. It just normally not excessive, but it is always there.

Any fuel in the crankcase causes fuel dilution. This happens especially when the motor is cold. Once the motors comes up to temperature then the fuel, and any condensation, turns to vapors and are typically evacuated from the crankcase by the PCV system, if your vehicle has one.

My point is.. fuel dilution happens, it in itself is nothing new. The issue the folks are having is something other than the normal blow by.

Ford is working their way through the issue, and it appears they are finding it is high pressure fuel pump or injector related.... not blow by related.

As I said Ford will get this sorted out. It's the price you pay for buying new(ish) technology.

 

[N. J. Jim]

I agree with everything your saying... except... "I never had fuel dilution".. every internal combustion gasoline motor experiences it on some level.. It just normally not excessive, but it is always there.

Any fuel in the crankcase causes fuel dilution. This happens especially when the motor is cold. Once the motors comes up to temperature then the fuel, and any condensation, turns to vapors and are typically evacuated from the crankcase by the PCV system, if your vehicle has one.

My point is.. fuel dilution happens, it in itself is nothing new. The issue the folks are having is something other than the normal blow by.

Ford is working their way through the issue, and it appears they are finding it is high pressure fuel pump or injector related.... not blow by related.

As I said Ford will get this sorted out. It's the price you pay for buying new(ish) technology.

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