Can we run E85 in our Rangers

[Andy]

Finding decent gas here in Colorado is pretty difficult. Most of the 91 octane here causes knock (tuned) on the stock tune it does fine but tuned the fuel doesn’t hold up. Running an E50 tunemixing E85 and 91 results in a fantastic fuel for making power. Especially in the heat.

I do run an ethanol lubricant which does quiet down the HPFP noticeably. As for fuel consumption. Its higher as expected, my average mpg is 14-17 mpg depending on if I don’t burry the peddle at every light.

The fuel pump duty cycle and injector PSI do not drop from their commander values which indicates the fuel system is adequate for the higher fuel flow.

By no means do I imply people should run E50 tunes, that ethanol is “good” for your truck, or ethanol is safe long term. Just sharing my experience.

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[13 Second Ranger]

E85 requires a high pressure pump from XDI. I have it and absolutely love it. I have tons of E85 stations local to me and the truck is an absolute monster on it.

 

[Frenchy]

Finding decent gas here in Colorado is pretty difficult. Most of the 91 octane here causes knock (tuned) on the stock tune it does fine but tuned the fuel doesn’t hold up. Running an E50 tunemixing E85 and 91 results in a fantastic fuel for making power. Especially in the heat.

I do run an ethanol lubricant which does quiet down the HPFP noticeably. As for fuel consumption. Its higher as expected, my average mpg is 14-17 mpg depending on if I don’t burry the peddle at every light.

The fuel pump duty cycle and injector PSI do not drop from their commander values which indicates the fuel system is adequate for the higher fuel flow.

By no means do I imply people should run E50 tunes, that ethanol is “good” for your truck, or ethanol is safe long term. Just sharing my experience.

I'm curious how you came up with 91 causing problems tuned? On my truck when it was stock did improve when I switched from 87 to 91 and when I tuned it I saw even more improvements. Mind you I didn't go with a cheap tuner, I went with Livernois and I lobe it!! Also I am up in the Rockies in Colorado and usually average about 24 MPG going to work and back. What helps me is i dont have near as much stop.and go like you or you are probably putting the foot through the floor more often than myself(it's ok i understand as it is hard not too)

 

[Andy]

I'm curious how you came up with 91 causing problems tuned? On my truck when it was stock did improve when I switched from 87 to 91 and when I tuned it I saw even more improvements. Mind you I didn't go with a cheap tuner, I went with Livernois and I lobe it!! Also I am up in the Rockies in Colorado and usually average about 24 MPG going to work and back. What helps me is i dont have near as much stop.and go like you or you are probably putting the foot through the floor more often than myself(it's ok i understand as it is hard not too)

Do you monitor your knock all the time with a monitor? If you aren’t monitoring it when you drive then you wouldn’t notice the engine knock because it’s usually happening. I watch mine with the NGauge so I know how the truck is doing and what the fuel is up to. 91 is a rather weak fuel compared to 93 and e85. So the power output from 91 is better than stock but it’s still not as exciting as running ethanol. For me having easy access to e85 made it worth it to run it all the time. When I go out on trails I switch to an adaptive tune and run 91 in the tank but the truck will usually settle in at a OAR of -.6-.9 which is fine and it is still faster than stock but on hot days 91 can’t hold up to the timing of the tune so it will dial back as needed.

 

[Frenchy]

Do you monitor your knock all the time with a monitor? If you aren’t monitoring it when you drive then you wouldn’t notice the engine knock because it’s usually happening. I watch mine with the NGauge so I know how the truck is doing and what the fuel is up to. 91 is a rather weak fuel compared to 93 and e85. So the power output from 91 is better than stock but it’s still not as exciting as running ethanol. For me having easy access to e85 made it worth it to run it all the time. When I go out on trails I switch to an adaptive tune and run 91 in the tank but the truck will usually settle in at a OAR of -.6-.9 which is fine and it is still faster than stock but on hot days 91 can’t hold up to the timing of the tune so it will dial back as needed.

Clearly you've never heard a vehicle knock or ping. I'm not trying to be an a****** here but just monitoring the knock-on there is not helping you whatsoever. Yes a vehicle is always going to make adjustments as needed and also having the engage tells me you have one of the tunes from five star. I would suggest you get rid of that tune and go to livernois's since livernois's doesn't have any problems with the High Altitude again with and five star has to specifically tune your vehicle for high altitude when the technology nowadays has no problems adjusting. I've heard plenty of vehicles ping and knock before and it's definitely not a pretty sight. Therefore I don't worry about monitoring knock since the computer does everything it needs to to begin with.

 

[Andy]

Clearly you've never heard a vehicle knock or ping. I'm not trying to be an a****** here but just monitoring the knock-on there is not helping you whatsoever. Yes a vehicle is always going to make adjustments as needed and also having the engage tells me you have one of the tunes from five star. I would suggest you get rid of that tune and go to livernois's since livernois's doesn't have any problems with the High Altitude again with and five star has to specifically tune your vehicle for high altitude when the technology nowadays has no problems adjusting. I've heard plenty of vehicles ping and knock before and it's definitely not a pretty sight. Therefore I don't worry about monitoring knock since the computer does everything it needs to to begin with.

I think you took my words in a different tone then I had intended. I’m not saying you are incorrect in your understanding of knock but your accusations that I’ve never heard preignition nor know the fundamentals of engine management is a poorly chosen assumption. My statement still stands as to the daily monitoring of how your engine is running. I see the data all day and know what’s going on as the ambient condition change so does the truck.

If you step back for a moment and see what I’m trying to say you won’t be offended from it. I’m simply saying... If you aren’t looking at the data then you can’t know how your engine is responding to the fuel you are running. Knock has many levels of severity and only the worst will be something you can hear or feel. Otherwise, you could be running at an OAR of -.5 and never know it.

 

[Racket]

Open gas filler door. Read factory-printed message around filler. Choose wisely. E0-E15. I have mistakenly referred to E15 as E85 because of dumb math skills. The 88 octane E15 goes fast, but the mileage defeats the $avings.

 

[treimche]

I wish our Rangers were Flex Fuel capable from the factory. E85 is an absolutely amazing fuel for performance on a turbocharged vehicle. It is much higher octane than regular gas and also burns cooler, which will further prevent detonation and increase power. My S2000 is turbo'd and running on E85 to the tune of about 600whp on a stock motor. All with sub $2/gallon fuel right from the pump!

 

[ChiliTruck]

e15 isn't going to give you the "ethanol" benefits of a more pure E85 (with corresponding tuning for it). I'd love to get the truck updated with a higher rated fuel pump (and I guess the injectors would need to get replaced as well) and get a tune done for e85.....100% expect it would really open it up.

 

[berlow94]

I wish our Rangers were Flex Fuel capable from the factory. E85 is an absolutely amazing fuel for performance on a turbocharged vehicle. It is much higher octane than regular gas and also burns cooler, which will further prevent detonation and increase power. My S2000 is turbo'd and running on E85 to the tune of about 600whp on a stock motor. All with sub $2/gallon fuel right from the pump!

Although E85 does have a high resistance to knock (equivalent to some 100 octane race fuels) it has about half of the actual energy of raw non-ethanol gas. Because of this, roughly 50% more fuel needs to be supplied to the engine under most conditions. (Methanol and other alcohol fuels can sometimes require 75%-100% more volume) It can be very difficult to design a fuel system that can reliably handle these two very different fuel requirements.
In a purpose built race car that will only ever be used with these types of fuels, its a pretty simple math equation to figure out what size fuel pump and injectors you'll need. If you are trying to regularly switch between E10 pump fuels and E85 corn juice the fuel system has to compromise somewhere.
Remember for port injection systems, the dwell time the injector takes to physically cycle open to closed is longer than when most injectors are functioning at anything past 80% duty cycle. So if any part of your fuel map is showing greater than an 80% injector duty cycle, your fuel injectors are now garden hoses, they are not closing and are spraying gas constantly.
The flip side to this is running an injector that is so big that the dwell time is longer than the ECM is signaling them to open at idle. This can be overcome with staged injection systems but now we are back in race car land again.

I would be curious to find out more about how a DI gas engine injection system can vary its duty cycle to these extremes. Not sure if gas direct injection has the ability to vary nozzle size and shape like Piezo style diesel injectors.
As long as all of the fuel lines and seals are built with 100% ethanol compatible materials, it would be cool to be able to take an otherwise off the shelf vehicle, switch gas in the tank and fuel mapping and strategy, throw a poop-ton of timing and boost at it and see what can be accomplished.

 

[JAKE2.3]

These motors love e gas. You just have to tune for it. Or possibly run auxiliary systems depending on the e level. My closest station is 40+ miles away, so it doesn't work financially for me. We have a new station going in where I work in town. If they have it at the pump, I'd definitely consider tunng for it in my mustang. For the ranger, not so much, for me anyway.

Edit: I assume these are similar to the eco's in the mustang, but I'm not sure. My research comes from the mustang world. I believe you can run about e30 before auxiliary systems come into play.

 

[Racket]

I'm curious how you came up with 91 causing problems tuned? On my truck when it was stock did improve when I switched from 87 to 91 and when I tuned it I saw even more improvements. Mind you I didn't go with a cheap tuner, I went with Livernois and I lobe it!! Also I am up in the Rockies in Colorado and usually average about 24 MPG going to work and back. What helps me is i dont have near as much stop.and go like you or you are probably putting the foot through the floor more often than myself(it's ok i understand as it is hard not too)

Maybe it's altitude in CO causing probs?
More to the point, the owner of UPR told me if you want performance out these motors 91 octane is minimum.

I know some tuner boxes have 87 performance tunes, and while the out-of-the box one from SCT was an improvement over stock, I think if you are going to spend the $ on that you should be prepared to buy the fuel to reflect that.

Of course I don't take my own advice, I run a mid-grade tune with whatever mid-grade fuel I can get my hands on these days... Mostly 89, 91 if I can't find that.

 

[Frenchy]

Maybe it's altitude in CO causing probs?
More to the point, the owner of UPR told me if you want performance out these motors 91 octane is minimum.

I know some tuner boxes have 87 performance tunes, and while the out-of-the box one from SCT was an improvement over stock, I think if you are going to spend the $ on that you should be prepared to buy the fuel to reflect that.

Of course I don't take my own advice, I run a mid-grade tune with whatever mid-grade fuel I can get my hands on these days... Mostly 89, 91 if I can't find that.

I'm in the High Rockies of Colorado living at 10,000 ft while passing 11,000 ft going to and from work and work at 9,000 ft. Out here the highest we have is 91 and ever since I switched to 91 from 87 I noticed a big difference(just not the difference seen with a tune). I now have a tow tune from Livernois with the low and high octane tunes. The high octane tune is for 91-93 and the tow tune is a flex from 87 to 93. I just run the tow tune woth 91 and ot does well. I don't notice any knock or ping and I have heard a vehicle with knock, it isn't a pretty sound to hear. Is the computer possibly making adjustments if it detects any predetonation? Absolutely but not to the point I'm loosing power. I have driven to Arizona already with 87 and 91 and both didnt seem to have power loss at all. With the better performance and better MPG I stick with the 91 and feel it's worth the cost.

 

[Bluebeastsrt]

E85 requires a high pressure pump from XDI. I have it and absolutely love it. I have tons of E85 stations local to me and the truck is an absolute monster on it.

Thank you. E85 is an amazing power producer on a boosted car or truck. It reduces cylinder temps and protects against knock. You need to be tuned for it and have the correct fuel system when running straight e85. As running E85 requires about 30% more fuel volume. My 15 Mustang GT gained about 100whp with e85 and a return fuel system. E85 is basically cheap race fuel. Most people that crap on e85 have never actually used it. Here’s my best slip from my boosted Mustang.

 

[treimche]

Thank you. E85 is an amazing power producer on a boosted car or truck. It reduces IAT’s and protects against knock. You need to be tuned for it and have the correct fuel system. As running E85 requires about 30% more fuel volume. My 15 Mustang GT gain about 100whp with e85 and a return fuel system. E85 is basically cheap race fuel. Most people that crap on e85 have never actually used it. Here’s my best slip from my boosted Mustang.

13.1 @ 108 isn't much to brag about from a boosted Mustang I kid, that 9.97 is badass!

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