10R80 the beginning of the downhill slide?

[woodworker]

We all have our opinions, and experiences. At 15K miles the transmison fluid was black as coal. I posted pictures of the fluid way back when this occurred. I was probably one of the first to report that I was having severe transmission issues. Changing the fluid the very first time and adding LubeGard Platinum was a last ditch effort to save the transmission. I had taken the truck to the dealer and got the " they all do that, it's normal" response. I never went back.

Since then a tsunami of transmission failures have flooded Ford, and they have finallly had to react.

I still notice that as the transmission warms up past 160F, it becomes just perceptively noisier ( most people would never listen close enough to hear the shift solenoids transitioning, but I can hear them. They only make this noise when the fluid is hot, above 180F. The sweet spot for <MY> transmission temperature wise is 150F-160F, not the 195F-200F that Ford wants them to run at. GM runs their version of the same transmission at 150F-160F.

I'm going to run my transmission at that temperature as well. The last of the necessary parts are arriving right now. And I'll make my attempt at correcting "Ford's Folly" later this winter when I change the oil, lube the Tom Wood's Driveshart, change the antifreeze, and replace the brake fluid.

I don't trust Ford's dealership mechanics to do the job correctly. Even though I have purchased an extended warranty, I only want to have this transmission replaced once. And it will be done by a 3rd party expert with high quality parts. Until that time I am going to insure the present transmission lives as long as possible. I think I can squeeze 100K (maybe much more) out of it by:

• changing the fluid at reasonable intervals
• changing the transmission shift patterns
• keeping the transmission cool at <= 160F
• Adding LubeGard Platinum when I change the fluid

So I am rolling the dice with 10K miles of trouble free shifts behind me. Trusting my knowledge over Ford's lies printed in their Service guides. (For Example "The fluid will last the life of the transmission")

I consulted with several folks on this forum a year before I tried LubeGard Platinum. I thought about it for an entire year. I read of a Ford Engineer who helped design the transmission, warning Ford Management about missing / low levels of critical ingredients in the fluid, and warned of early transmission faliures flooding Ford servce centers.

Still I waited... putting less than 1,000 miles on the truck over 18 months for Fitz to come out with is dipstick before finally making the decision to change the fluid, add a PPE Deep pan, and add LubeGard Platinum.

I put my schedule in place, adding the Fitztick first (I had dipstick #4), purchased an inexpensive transfer pump and removed 7.5 quarts. I then added 7.5 quarts back in (which included 11 0z of LubeGard Platinum.

Took the truck for a test drive and the difference was dramatic and immediate. 1K miles later I repeated the flush, and 1K miles after that I did the same, except this time I dropped the pan, changed the filter and installed the PPE deep pan. Those 3 flushes resulted in >95% clean fluid. That was 9K miles ago and the transmission has behaved like new (it is still not good enough for me).

I have since purchased a ScanGauge which allows me to monitor Tranmission temperature, and Actual and Desired Torque Converter slip. I see and hear patterns, and look to prevent future issue before they arise.

Cooling the fluid increases fluid life substantially, adding LubeGard Platinum adds the missing ingredients that the Ford Engineer mentioned in his report. Changing the shift points and patterns reduces clutch wear.

When this transmission wears out I already know who will be supplying the parts for the rebuild. And the next time around the transmission will last longer than the truck.

BTW, I believe the CDF drum is a poor design, but I also think that it migrates due to extreme heat causing expansion coeffients to appear. Keeping internal temps low with cooler fluid flow will hopefully prevent praticulate buildup from blocking solenoid failures that starve off fluid pressure flows, which quickly over heat the transmission.

Ford cheaped out and made a lot of mistakes.... and their mistakes are additive. Death by a million cuts.

So yes, I am using that "Snake Oil" as part of a very comprehensive plan that is working for me. If I fail, I will report back that I failed, but so far things are looking quite promising.

FWIW, Ford should not use customers as their QC test subjects, and then use the failures as a potential profit opportunity.

Excellent research and write up in my opinion.
Question; How are you monitoring and controlling transmission temperatures?
I’m ready to turn 148,000 absolutely trouble free miles any day now and some stuff I’m reading in here kinda scares me, not to mention new truck prices. My new truck buying days are past and I have to make this 2021 last.
My miles are all highway miles and the heaviest thing I ever pull is my little 2620 Kubota (3000 pounds total) and then maybe only four times a year. The longest trip I take is from Surry Va to Frederick Maryland to get a load of rats for the eagle rehab guy in Suffolk. It’s about 440 miles round trip, about ten hours, and I worry about transmission temperatures.
BTW, I agree 100% with your FWIW closing statement and thanks for taking the time to post this information and results.

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[Trustable]

We all have our opinions, and experiences. At 15K miles the transmison fluid was black as coal. I posted pictures of the fluid way back when this occurred. I was probably one of the first to report that I was having severe transmission issues. Changing the fluid the very first time and adding LubeGard Platinum was a last ditch effort to save the transmission. I had taken the truck to the dealer and got the " they all do that, it's normal" response. I never went back.

Since then a tsunami of transmission failures have flooded Ford, and they have finallly had to react.

I still notice that as the transmission warms up past 160F, it becomes just perceptively noisier ( most people would never listen close enough to hear the shift solenoids transitioning, but I can hear them. They only make this noise when the fluid is hot, above 180F. The sweet spot for <MY> transmission temperature wise is 150F-160F, not the 195F-200F that Ford wants them to run at. GM runs their version of the same transmission at 150F-160F.

I'm going to run my transmission at that temperature as well. The last of the necessary parts are arriving right now. And I'll make my attempt at correcting "Ford's Folly" later this winter when I change the oil, lube the Tom Wood's Driveshart, change the antifreeze, and replace the brake fluid.

I don't trust Ford's dealership mechanics to do the job correctly. Even though I have purchased an extended warranty, I only want to have this transmission replaced once. And it will be done by a 3rd party expert with high quality parts. Until that time I am going to insure the present transmission lives as long as possible. I think I can squeeze 100K (maybe much more) out of it by:

• changing the fluid at reasonable intervals
• changing the transmission shift patterns
• keeping the transmission cool at <= 160F
• Adding LubeGard Platinum when I change the fluid

So I am rolling the dice with 10K miles of trouble free shifts behind me. Trusting my knowledge over Ford's lies printed in their Service guides. (For Example "The fluid will last the life of the transmission")

I consulted with several folks on this forum a year before I tried LubeGard Platinum. I thought about it for an entire year. I read of a Ford Engineer who helped design the transmission, warning Ford Management about missing / low levels of critical ingredients in the fluid, and warned of early transmission faliures flooding Ford servce centers.

Still I waited... putting less than 1,000 miles on the truck over 18 months for Fitz to come out with is dipstick before finally making the decision to change the fluid, add a PPE Deep pan, and add LubeGard Platinum.

I put my schedule in place, adding the Fitztick first (I had dipstick #4), purchased an inexpensive transfer pump and removed 7.5 quarts. I then added 7.5 quarts back in (which included 11 0z of LubeGard Platinum.

Took the truck for a test drive and the difference was dramatic and immediate. 1K miles later I repeated the flush, and 1K miles after that I did the same, except this time I dropped the pan, changed the filter and installed the PPE deep pan. Those 3 flushes resulted in >95% clean fluid. That was 9K miles ago and the transmission has behaved like new (it is still not good enough for me).

I have since purchased a ScanGauge which allows me to monitor Tranmission temperature, and Actual and Desired Torque Converter slip. I see and hear patterns, and look to prevent future issue before they arise.

Cooling the fluid increases fluid life substantially, adding LubeGard Platinum adds the missing ingredients that the Ford Engineer mentioned in his report. Changing the shift points and patterns reduces clutch wear.

When this transmission wears out I already know who will be supplying the parts for the rebuild. And the next time around the transmission will last longer than the truck.

BTW, I believe the CDF drum is a poor design, but I also think that it migrates due to extreme heat causing expansion coeffients to appear. Keeping internal temps low with cooler fluid flow will hopefully prevent praticulate buildup from blocking solenoid failures that starve off fluid pressure flows, which quickly over heat the transmission.

Ford cheaped out and made a lot of mistakes.... and their mistakes are additive. Death by a million cuts.

So yes, I am using that "Snake Oil" as part of a very comprehensive plan that is working for me. If I fail, I will report back that I failed, but so far things are looking quite promising.

FWIW, Ford should not use customers as their QC test subjects, and then use the failures as a potential profit opportunity.

I am glad it has been working for you thus far and truly hope it will help keep it going without issue. My frustration comes from the fact that you probably had to drop a significant amount of money on all this - monitoring, the dipstick, the new pan, and everything else when really you shouldn’t need too. As Chris said, the fact that you did all this is great and frankly impressive to all the members who have undertaken it, but it shouldn’t be on the owner to do this.

 

[jflogerzi]

That was the start of my Problems and I just decided to force my Dealer's hand and got my trans replaced early.

 

[Trustable]

Excellent research and write up in my opinion.
Question; How are you monitoring and controlling transmission temperatures?
I’m ready to turn 148,000 absolutely trouble free miles any day now and some stuff I’m reading in here kinda scares me, not to mention new truck prices. My new truck buying days are past and I have to make this 2021 last.
My miles are all highway miles and the heaviest thing I ever pull is my little 2620 Kubota (3000 pounds total) and then maybe only four times a year. The longest trip I take is from Surry Va to Frederick Maryland to get a load of rats for the eagle rehab guy in Suffolk. It’s about 440 miles round trip, about ten hours, and I worry about transmission temperatures.
BTW, I agree 100% with your FWIW closing statement and thanks for taking the time to post this information and results.

Off topic, but how does it tow with the tractor, I have an l2501 with loader and am hesitant to try to tow it with the ranger. Someone also mentioned it wouldn’t be a good idea to tow it with the ranger on the kubota forum but I know some of those guys are old school and are under the opinion of anything less than a f250 shouldn’t be towing anything.

 

[woodworker]

It's great to have members willing to go the extra mile to fix something that should've been done from the factory! I'm not defending Ford but in a (small) way I can see why they haven't had a major recall on these as it's not effecting everyone or even a huge percentage of owners. It is puzzling that some can go 148,000 miles with zero issues yet others are having them at 15,000 miles. But I guess that's the world we live in now where everything we buy from appliances to electronics to automobiles is a roll of the dice if you're going to get a good one or a.......

It is definitely a roll of the dice. Speaking of appliances, my washer took a dump as COVID was starting and I had to buy a Hotpoint washer and dryer against my better, albeit somewhat slipping, judgement. They were the only ones left in any of the stores and the big names were on back order for six months. They were on sale for $398 each oddly enough so I took a chance since I don’t keep six months of laundry around. I never heard anything good about them but to my surprise, five years later and they are still operating like new.

 

[woodworker]

Off topic, but how does it tow with the tractor, I have an l2501 with loader and am hesitant to try to tow it with the ranger. Someone also mentioned it wouldn’t be a good idea to tow it with the ranger on the kubota forum but I know some of those guys are old school and are under the opinion of anything less than a f250 shouldn’t be towing anything.

Like it’s not even back there. I just put it in trailer mode and it does very well.

 

[TJC]

It's great to have members willing to go the extra mile to fix something that should've been done from the factory! I'm not defending Ford but in a (small) way I can see why they haven't had a major recall on these as it's not effecting everyone or even a huge percentage of owners. It is puzzling that some can go 148,000 miles with zero issues yet others are having them at 15,000 miles. But I guess that's the world we live in now where everything we buy from appliances to electronics to automobiles is a roll of the dice if you're going to get a good one or a.......

I actually think it is because I babied it too much. I have always used a light foot on the gas and this keeps the transmission torque converter slipping far too long and heats up ther fluid very quickly. I've gained insight into this after installing the ScanGauge and tracking fluid temps, transmission slip vs desired slip. The trasnmission heats up sitting at a stop light, placing it in neutral and temps drop. I think the torque converter is responsible for 75% of the heat generated in the tranmsission, at least from my monitoring since install the gauge.

I've got the tune coming that I asked about, and the last 2 parts for the external cooler are arrving today and Tuesday.

I really want this truck to work. it does a lot of things right, and I have already corrected many of the weak links.

• Driveshaft shudder (TW Driveshaft)
• Fan harness
• Soft Brake Pedal
• DPFE Sensor
• Transmisson PPE Deep Pan and fluid changes
• Disabled the Telematic System
• Even purchased the Extended Warranty in case the heat door issue surfaces

This transmission issue is the last domino that needs to fall.

 

[Trustable]

Like it’s not even back there. I just put it in trailer mode and it does very well.

Good to know thanks! I’m sure with the backhoe on your B the l2501 is probably pretty close in weight to yours.

 

[TJC]

Excellent research and write up in my opinion.
Question; How are you monitoring and controlling transmission temperatures?

I monitor the transmission with a ScanGauge 3

I'm going to cool the transmission by adding an external pancake style 30 row cooler in the front of the truck.

It will be connected to the transmission via PTFE hose with AN-8 fittings at the transmission and cooler. This is industrlal quality hose with a stainless steel loom embedded in the hose.

Transmission adapter plate

There is a little Southern engineering involved as well, as I need to remove the Ford heat exchanger from the fluid circuits, but leave it electrically connected to prevent an error code. Swapping out the design is easy enough but a little thought will be needed to figure out where to mount the heat exchanger nearby.

When I am under the truck I'll see what is possible. This will cetainly invalidate the warranty for the transmission, but I trust myself more than I trust Ford.

There are a lot more bits and pieces, but this covers the big picture.
I do expect to see temps in the 150F-160F range when this is over.

 

[mrmike7189]

In 2024 Ford switched to the 10R60 transmission in the Ranger.
Is that an improvement? ......who knows!

 

[TJC]

I don't think so.... at least from what I've read.

 

[TJC]

Excellent research and write up in my opinion.
Question; How are you monitoring and controlling transmission temperatures?
I’m ready to turn 148,000 absolutely trouble free miles any day now and some stuff I’m reading in here kinda scares me, not to mention new truck prices. My new truck buying days are past and I have to make this 2021 last.
My miles are all highway miles and the heaviest thing I ever pull is my little 2620 Kubota (3000 pounds total) and then maybe only four times a year. The longest trip I take is from Surry Va to Frederick Maryland to get a load of rats for the eagle rehab guy in Suffolk. It’s about 440 miles round trip, about ten hours, and I worry about transmission temperatures.
BTW, I agree 100% with your FWIW closing statement and thanks for taking the time to post this information and results.

If you've got 148K miles on your truck, I don't think you've got much to worry about! just keep doing what you're doing!

Take my grandaddy's advice.. "Son, don't fix what ain't broken"

 

[Titchadesh]

I am glad it has been working for you thus far and truly hope it will help keep it going without issue. My frustration comes from the fact that you probably had to drop a significant amount of money on all this - monitoring, the dipstick, the new pan, and everything else when really you shouldn’t need too. As Chris said, the fact that you did all this is great and frankly impressive to all the members who have undertaken it, but it shouldn’t be on the owner to do this.

I don't think he or anyone else is taking up the position that every Ford owner is responsible to do this—he's just sharing what his initial issue was and all the tedious work/thought he went through to address it.

Do most owners need to go through the tedium of effort that he did in order to get the most out of their transmissions? God I hope not, but recommending the occasional drain + fill with the addition of LGP is smart practice to mitigate a lot of potential issues with the transmissions we are all stuck with. And he's recommending that based on his experience—and that's all I see this as—a warning to not throw the baby out with the bathwater when a simple drain + fill could mitigate an unknown issue.

 

[ctechbob]

In 2024 Ford switched to the 10R60 transmission in the Ranger.
Is that an improvement? ......who knows!

Still the same/extremely similar valve body that will get eaten up by wear over time.

10R60 is just a lighter duty 10R80.

 

[woodworker]

If you've got 148K miles on your truck, I don't think you've got much to worry about! just keep doing what you're doing!

Take my grandaddy's advice.. "Son, don't fix what ain't broken"

Smart advice.

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