10R80 the beginning of the downhill slide?

[ctechbob]

I don’t understand why people are recommending snake oil for the transmission. It’s a badly engineered product. No amount of mystery oil will fix it. That stuff would not have stopped my transmission from having 2 stuck valves due to large metal chunks. My transmission after the rebuild without the CDF drum is already having the same issues just over 2k miles later. Ford and their associated processes and products are the bottom of the barrel at this point. If people think that the transmission is fine you just need to change the fluid and add snake oil, fine, but please don’t be telling others that’s all they need. There is enough failures on here to prove the issue is more than just not having lube guard.

You're missing the point.

It was never said that LG and changing the fluid was going to prevent mechanical failure.

What it does do, is help prevent the valve body from hanging up. That is one of the causes of the problems. Has nothing to do with the CDF issue.

But, if you keep the contaminants that are tearing up the valve bodies OUT of the fluid and provide a little bit extra wear protection, you can slow down or prevent some of the valve body issues.

It is a preventative for ONE of the problems the 10X transmissions have, that's all. Doesn't guarantee anything.

Not everyone is still in warranty and can be staring down the barrel of a very expensive rebuild. If their problems are constrained to just a valve body issue, it is worth a shot.

Also, keeping the fluid changed on ANY of the units, be it a 2020 built unit or a 2025 built one, is going to pay dividends. Ford is STILL using most of the same valve body parts even in the newer units. So you might have one that functions just fine now, but go ahead and wait till 150,000 miles on the box to change the fluid and see where that gets you.

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[Trustable]

You're missing the point.

It was never said that LG and changing the fluid was going to prevent mechanical failure.

What it does do, is help prevent the valve body from hanging up. That is one of the causes of the problems. Has nothing to do with the CDF issue.

But, if you keep the contaminants that are tearing up the valve bodies OUT of the fluid and provide a little bit extra wear protection, you can slow down or prevent some of the valve body issues.

It is a preventative for ONE of the problems the 10X transmissions have, that's all. Doesn't guarantee anything.

Not everyone is still in warranty and can be staring down the barrel of a very expensive rebuild. If their problems are constrained to just a valve body issue, it is worth a shot.

Also, keeping the fluid changed on ANY of the units, be it a 2020 built unit or a 2025 built one, is going to pay dividends. Ford is STILL using most of the same valve body parts even in the newer units. So you might have one that functions just fine now, but go ahead and wait till 150,000 miles on the box to change the fluid and see where that gets you.

I do get the point. I just, respectfully, don’t agree with it. I am not looking to argue here, just maybe help so you see where my thought process is coming from.

If you can’t do it yourself you’re probably looking at least 500 for a transmission drain, filter, and fluid. Not including the up charge the dealer will charge for lube guard. Let’s say I do it out of warranty and it doesn’t help, I’m out at least 500 bucks plus probably a future transmission rebuild or replacement. At that point I would have been better off selling it as soon I noticed issues or just getting it rebuilt by an independent shop.

And just a heads up if that last paragraph was directed at me, I think it’s pretty clear these transmissions won’t make it to 150k, I have absolutely no faith in Ford that they can make anything that lasts that long without major issues. Let’s say lube guard 100% works to prevent the valve issues - so now in addition to the regular transmission service I have to add this too, doesn’t seem right to me.

The point I’m making here is whether or not it works you lose. The transmissions are poorly designed and built, like most things Ford builds. Ford needs to issue a recall on all the 10r80s to at least inspect them to see if there is damage. They are just telling all of us to go screw ourselves and hope we just trade in to buy another flawed product.

 

[ctechbob]

Also.

SHOULD People have to jump through hoops and change their fluid more often than specified?

No.

But Ford should also specify a reasonable interval. No trans builder on the planet will tell you that you can go 150,000 miles on a change. Ford tried to use a good filter, and it is a good filter, but there are still contaminants in the fluid that eat into the soft aluminum and bugger up the valve body.

Ford should also have used a hardened shell and good steel valves in the valve body along with better aluminum, but they didn't. So you can either get rid of the truck, or you can jump through some minor hoops and hopefully extend the life or the amount of time before rebuild.

I said almost all of this 5 years ago when I owned my 2020 Ranger, but here's another view on it:



And yes, I think Nate is a bit of a pompous a-hole, but he's pretty smart and built a damn fine business of fixing OEM's screwups. I'd trust him.

 

[ctechbob]

I do get the point. I just, respectfully, don’t agree with it. I am not looking to argue here, just maybe help so you see where my thought process is coming from.

If you can’t do it yourself you’re probably looking at least 500 for a transmission drain, filter, and fluid. Not including the up charge the dealer will charge for lube guard. Let’s say I do it out of warranty and it doesn’t help, I’m out at least 500 bucks plus probably a future transmission rebuild or replacement. At that point I would have been better off selling it as soon I noticed issues or just getting it rebuilt by an independent shop.

And just a heads up if that last paragraph was directed at me, I think it’s pretty clear these transmissions won’t make it to 150k, I have absolutely no faith in Ford that they can make anything that lasts that long without major issues. Let’s say lube guard 100% works to prevent the valve issues - so now in addition to the regular transmission service I have to add this too, doesn’t seem right to me.

The point I’m making here is whether or not it works you lose. The transmissions are poorly designed and built, like most things Ford builds. Ford needs to issue a recall on all the 10r80s to at least inspect them to see if there is damage. They are just telling all of us to go screw ourselves and hope we just trade in to buy another flawed product.

Shitty manufacturers is a whole other conversation.

They won't issue a recall because a lot of boxes make it out of warranty. They'll continue to make small revisions until they extend that out slightly and then they'll be done. You'll still never have a 200,000-300,000 mile box unless you get some aftermarket parts in it.

Most manufs design for a 100-150k mile life at the most. That came straight to the front out of GM's 8 speed lawsuits. You can bet if one of them is designing for that limited of a lifespan, the rest of them are as well, thank the beancounters for that.

They're all shit, every one of them. Ford, Toyota, Honda, GM,...all of them aren't worth a crap anymore.

 

[Trustable]

Shitty manufacturers is a whole other conversation.

They won't issue a recall because a lot of boxes make it out of warranty. They'll continue to make small revisions until they extend that out slightly and then they'll be done. You'll still never have a 200,000-300,000 mile box unless you get some aftermarket parts in it.

Most manufs design for a 100-150k mile life at the most. That came straight to the front out of GM's 8 speed lawsuits. You can bet if one of them is designing for that limited of a lifespan, the rest of them are as well, thank the beancounters for that.

They're all shit, every one of them. Ford, Toyota, Honda, GM,...all of them aren't worth a crap anymore.

I agree with this and what you said before this post. My frustration is that I see other (non American) manufacturer's fix the issues and Ford plays them off as minor and implements a half assed fix or refuses to acknowledge them and say it’s working as designed.

My primary reason for selling the ranger soon is two fold, 50% the issues, and 50% ford not being to adequately fix the issues. I’m not sure if GM is any different, but I know based on personal and family experience - KIA, Toyota, Honda have issues, but they will provide an adequate fix that gets you back in the seat and not worried about the next failure. I am also jaded and probably negative about this I’m sure, but this is my second ford with a shit transmission. Started with the focus DCT that I had at the dealer under warranty for mostly transmission issues 3 times and other issues 2 times. After warranty it was in 2 times for the transmission recall. Total of 5 visits for just the transmission in just over five years is insane IMO, especially when I sold it at only 33k miles.

 

[ctechbob]

I agree with this and what you said before this post. My frustration is that I see other (non American) manufacturer's fix the issues and Ford plays them off as minor and implements a half assed fix or refuses to acknowledge them and say it’s working as designed.

My primary reason for selling the ranger soon is two fold, 50% the issues, and 50% ford not being to adequately fix the issues. I’m not sure if GM is any different, but I know based on personal and family experience - KIA, Toyota, Honda have issues, but they will provide an adequate fix that gets you back in the seat and not worried about the next failure. I am also jaded and probably negative about this I’m sure, but this is my second ford with a shit transmission. Started with the focus DCT that I had at the dealer under warranty for mostly transmission issues 3 times and other issues 2 times. After warranty it was in 2 times for the transmission recall. Total of 5 visits for just the transmission in just over five years is insane IMO, especially when I sold it at only 33k miles.

Damn, you picked the shittiest of the shit with that DCT, don't blame you on that. That thing was a super turd.

GM actually did one better with their 8L transmissions. They knew they were shit from the rip. Shipped them anyways.

All to save $2 a unit. Ended up costing them something like 8 billion or some such stupid amount.

Background for people not aware. When GM developed the 8L series, it was specced with a carbon fiber clutch disk in the torque converter. They developed the fluid around that, but then went and changed to a paper based friction material and kept the same fluid. Problem is, as the fluid would absorb water with use it caused the torque converter to shudder thanks to the $2 cheaper paper friction material. They pretty much knew about it at the very beginning and modified the fluid, which fixed the problem (kinda, there are other 8L problems not fluid related) but then proceeded to give the long stiff one to current owners.

Some of their internal communications are fantastic. I'd have to dig it up again, but they deposed one of their top people and basically got him to admit that they knew about the problem, had a fix, but weren't going to let owners know about it before their warranty was out and that those out of warranty were just SOL.

Found it. It is a summary in the lawsuit of the shit the GM Manager said:

6. With respect to the ATF defect, GM developed a fix in 2018 (a flush with a conventional fluid it calls Mod1a). GM was aware that its proprietary ATF (212b and Option B) would fail in the presence of water and over time. GM however decided three things antithetical to good corporate citizenry. First, it forewent paying for a field action to replace for free all purchasers of its 8L transmissions made between 2014 and March 1, 2019. GM engineers encouraged the program, which at about $305 a vehicle would have cost GM about $592M. But in March of 2019, GM management rejected this request, but limited the flush to unsold vehicles.

Second, GM rejected even doing an Mod1a fluid flush even for all of its unsold vehicles that still had the defective transmission fluids. GM could have spent $73M to flush out all 240,893 unsold 8L vehicles in June of 2019. Instead, GM only replaced the defective ATF in 6,518 unsold Cadillacs and trucks in certain states where it expected customers to complain within warranty. GM sold the remaining vehicles knowing it had an ATF that would fail over time. Finally, GM never alerted existing customers that it had a new ATF. Instead, GM decided that it would cover fluid flushes if the customer was under warranty and complained about Shudder to a dealer. Essentially, GM hoped the customers would not learn about the fix for the problem GM created until after their warranty period elapsed.[/b] Several purchasers including Plaintiffs Dale Bland and Jacob and Britney Brellenthin wound up paying for the Mod1a fluid flush themselves after their warranty expired.

I'm sure Ford and pretty much everyone else has, maybe not to the same level now, but somewhere along the line, similar skeletons in the closet.

--Edit--

I went down the rabbit hole of re-reading some of the unsealed lawsuit documents.

This sound familiar?

GM Circa 2016

 

[woodworker]

It will fail everyone eventually. With enough miles. So don’t worry you are probably fine.

I must be lucky from what I read in here. I’m at 148,000 on my 2021 and not the first issue at all. But it goes in every 5000 for whatever it needs. Transmission was flushed at 90k but not sure if I will get that done again or not, maybe just drain and fill.

 

[woodworker]

I must be lucky from what I read in here. I’m at 148,000 on my 2021 and not the first issue at all. But it goes in every 5000 for whatever it needs. Transmission was flushed at 90k but not sure if I will get that done again or not, maybe just drain and fill.

Of course I probably just jinxed myself but I am very pleased with this truck

 

[woodworker]

I'm gonna have the dealer change the fluid and add the Lube Guard at my 30,000 service

I had the first flush done at 90,000 and I’m at 148,000 now. I read where flushes should not be performed on high mileage transmissions so I may just do drain and fill at 150k.

 

[ctechbob]

I had the first flush done at 90,000 and I’m at 148,000 now. I read where flushes should not be performed on high mileage transmissions so I may just do drain and fill at 150k.

If the filter was done at 90k there's nothing wrong with a D&F, if not, you're due for a new filter, so might as well just drop the pan, change the filter, refill, and call it good.

 

[woodworker]

I thought that too because guys at the plant had Toyotas most well over 200k, so I bought the prettiest cobalt blue fully loaded Tacoma in 1995. It was the biggest rolling pos I ever sat in. The windshield howled like a freight train at 55 mph and all they did to fix the howl was smear RTV all over it. The driveline had some sort of terrible vibration the dealer said was normal. The front end ate the tires up before 10,000 miles. The last straw before I took a $4000 loss to get rid of it was the water pump went out and left me sitting. Another guy in the shop bought the exact same truck the only difference being his was automatic transmission where I bought the five speed. He sold his at like 300,000 miles still running fine.

 

[woodworker]

If the filter was done at 90k there's nothing wrong with a D&F, if not, you're due for a new filter, so might as well just drop the pan, change the filter, refill, and call it good.

That’s exactly what I’m thinking too.

 

[TJC]

I don’t understand why people are recommending snake oil for the transmission. It’s a badly engineered product. No amount of mystery oil will fix it. That stuff would not have stopped my transmission from having 2 stuck valves due to large metal chunks. My transmission after the rebuild without the CDF drum is already having the same issues just over 2k miles later. Ford and their associated processes and products are the bottom of the barrel at this point. If people think that the transmission is fine you just need to change the fluid and add snake oil, fine, but please don’t be telling others that’s all they need. There is enough failures on here to prove the issue is more than just not having lube guard.

We all have our opinions, and experiences. At 15K miles the transmisson fluid was black as coal. I posted pictures of the fluid way back when this occurred. I was probably one of the first to report that I was having severe transmission issues. Changing the fluid the very first time and adding LubeGard Platinum was a last ditch effort to save the transmission. I had taken the truck to the dealer and got the " they all do that, it's normal" response. I never went back.

Since then a tsunami of transmission failures have flooded Ford, and they have finallly had to react.

I still notice that as the transmission warms up past 160F, it becomes just perceptively noisier (most people would never listen close enough to hear the shift solenoids transitioning), but I can hear them. They only make this noise when the fluid is hot, above 180F. The sweet spot for <MY> transmission temperature wise is 150F-160F, not the 195F-200F that Ford wants them to run at. GM runs their version of the same transmission at 150F-160F.

I'm going to run my transmission at that temperature as well. The last of the necessary parts are arriving right now. And I'll make my attempt at correcting "Ford's Folly" later this winter when I change the oil, lube the Tom Wood's Driveshart, change the antifreeze, and replace the brake fluid.

I don't trust Ford's dealership mechanics to do the job correctly. Even though I have purchased an extended warranty, I only want to have this transmission replaced once. And it will be done by a 3rd party expert with high quality parts. Until that time I am going to insure the present transmission lives as long as possible. I think I can squeeze 100K (maybe much more) out of it by:

• changing the fluid at reasonable intervals
• changing the transmission shift patterns
• keeping the transmission cool at <= 160F
• Adding LubeGard Platinum when I change the fluid

So I am rolling the dice with 10K miles of trouble free shifts behind me. Trusting my knowledge over Ford's lies printed in their Service guides. (For Example "The fluid will last the life of the transmission")

I consulted with several folks on this forum a year before I tried LubeGard Platinum. I thought about it for an entire year. I read of a Ford Engineer who helped design the transmission, warning Ford Management about missing / low levels of critical ingredients in the fluid, and warned of early transmission failures flooding Ford servce centers.

Still I waited... putting less than 1,000 miles on the truck over 18 months for Fitz to come out with is dipstick before finally making the decision to change the fluid, add a PPE Deep pan, and add LubeGard Platinum.

I put my schedule in place, adding the Fitztick first (I had dipstick #4), purchased an inexpensive transfer pump and removed 7.5 quarts. I then added 7.5 quarts back in (which included 11 0z of LubeGard Platinum.

Took the truck for a test drive and the difference was dramatic and immediate. 1K miles later I repeated the flush, and 1K miles after that I did the same, except this time I dropped the pan, changed the filter and installed the PPE deep pan. Those 3 flushes resulted in >95% clean fluid. That was 9K miles ago and the transmission has behaved like new (it is still not good enough for me).

I have since purchased a ScanGauge which allows me to monitor Transmission temperature, and Actual and Desired Torque Converter slip. I see and hear patterns, and look to prevent future issue before they arise.

Cooling the fluid increases fluid life substantially, adding LubeGard Platinum adds the missing ingredients that the Ford Engineer mentioned in his report. Changing the shift points and patterns reduces clutch wear.

When this transmission wears out I already know who will be supplying the parts for the rebuild. And the next time around the transmission will last longer than the truck.

BTW, I believe the CDF drum is a poor design, but I also think that it migrates due to extreme heat causing expansion coeffients to appear. Keeping internal temps low with cooler fluid flow will hopefully prevent praticulate buildup from blocking solenoid failures that starve off fluid pressure flows, which quickly over heat the transmission.

Ford cheaped out and made a lot of mistakes.... and their mistakes are additive. Death by a million cuts.

So yes, I am using that "Snake Oil" as part of a very comprehensive plan that is working for me. If I fail, I will report back that I failed, but so far things are looking quite promising.

FWIW, Ford should not use customers as their QC test subjects, and then use the failures as a potential profit opportunity.

 

[Chris M]

We all have our opinions, and experiences. At 15K miles the transmison fluid was black as coal. I posted pictures of the fluid way back when this occurred. I was probably one of the first to report that I was having severe transmission issues. Changing the fluid the very first time and adding LubeGard Platinum was a last ditch effort to save the transmission. I had taken the truck to the dealer and got the " they all do that, it's normal" response. I never went back.

Since then a tsunami of transmission failures have flooded Ford, and they have finallly had to react.

I still notice that as the transmission warms up past 160F, it becomes just perceptively noisier ( most people would never listen close enough to hear the shift solenoids transitioning, but I can hear them. They only make this noise when the fluid is hot, above 180F. The sweet spot for <MY> transmission temperature wise is 150F-160F, not the 195F-200F that Ford wants them to run at. GM runs their version of the same transmission at 150F-160F.

I'm going to run my transmission at that temperature as well. The last of the necessary parts are arriving right now. And I'll make my attempt at correcting "Ford's Folly" later this winter when I change the oil, lube the Tom Wood's Driveshart, change the antifreeze, and replace the brake fluid.

I don't trust Ford's dealership mechanics to do the job correctly. Even though I have purchased an extended warranty, I only want to have this transmission replaced once. And it will be done by a 3rd party expert with high quality parts. Until that time I am going to insure the present transmission lives as long as possible. I think I can squeeze 100K (maybe much more) out of it by:

• changing the fluid at reasonable intervals
• changing the transmission shift patterns
• keeping the transmission cool at <= 160F
• Adding LubeGard Platinum when I change the fluid

So I am rolling the dice with 10K miles of trouble free shifts behind me. Trusting my knowledge over Ford's lies printed in their Service guides. (For Example "The fluid will last the life of the transmission")

I consulted with several folks on this forum a year before I tried LubeGard Platinum. I thought about it for an entire year. I read of a Ford Engineer who helped design the transmission, warning Ford Management about missing / low levels of critical ingredients in the fluid, and warned of early transmission faliures flooding Ford servce centers.

Still I waited... putting less than 1,000 miles on the truck over 18 months for Fitz to come out with is dipstick before finally making the decision to change the fluid, add a PPE Deep pan, and add LubeGard Platinum.

I put my schedule in place, adding the Fitztick first (I had dipstick #4), purchased an inexpensive transfer pump and removed 7.5 quarts. I then added 7.5 quarts back in (which included 11 0z of LubeGard Platinum.

Took the truck for a test drive and the difference was dramatic and immediate. 1K miles later I repeated the flush, and 1K miles after that I did the same, except this time I dropped the pan, changed the filter and installed the PPE deep pan. Those 3 flushes resulted in >95% clean fluid. That was 9K miles ago and the transmission has behaved like new (it is still not good enough for me).

I have since purchased a ScanGauge which allows me to monitor Tranmission temperature, and Actual and Desired Torque Converter slip. I see and hear patterns, and look to prevent future issue before they arise.

Cooling the fluid increases fluid life substantially, adding LubeGard Platinum adds the missing ingredients that the Ford Engineer mentioned in his report. Changing the shift points and patterns reduces clutch wear.

When this transmission wears out I already know who will be supplying the parts for the rebuild. And the next time around the transmission will last longer than the truck.

BTW, I believe the CDF drum is a poor design, but I also think that it migrates due to extreme heat causing expansion coeffients to appear. Keeping internal temps low with cooler fluid flow will hopefully prevent praticulate buildup from blocking solenoid failures that starve off fluid pressure flows, which quickly over heat the transmission.

Ford cheaped out and made a lot of mistakes.... and their mistakes are additive. Death by a million cuts.

So yes, I am using that "Snake Oil" as part of a very comprehensive plan that is working for me. If I fail, I will report back that I failed, but so far things are looking quite promising.

FWIW, Ford should not use customers as their QC test subjects, and then use the failures as a potential profit opportunity.

I have an appreciation for the amount of work and thought you've put into all of this so far, the transparency of all those efforts, and the planning and work yet to come on this "project".

It's the fact that you've felt you've "had" to do all this to keep your truck running as it should have been from the factory saddens me for you, and for all of us that so far have been touched by the transmission issue.

 

[AzScorpion]

I have an appreciation for the amount of work and thought you've put into all of this so far, the transparency of all those efforts, and the planning and work yet to come on this "project".

It's the fact that you've felt you've "had" to do all this to keep your truck running as it should have been from the factory saddens me for you, and for all of us that so far have been touched by the transmission issue.

It's great to have members willing to go the extra mile to fix something that should've been done from the factory! I'm not defending Ford but in a (small) way I can see why they haven't had a major recall on these as it's not effecting everyone or even a huge percentage of owners. It is puzzling that some can go 148,000 miles with zero issues yet others are having them at 15,000 miles. But I guess that's the world we live in now where everything we buy from appliances to electronics to automobiles is a roll of the dice if you're going to get a good one or a.......

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