Bucking/Surging Epidemic

[TJC]

correct, find something bendable and ream the inside of the small hose for the DPFE port on the tube assembly

Thanks! Good to know info. When I replaced the sensor I inspected both hoses and they were very clean.

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[remtv]

My truck at 52k miles is starting to do this really started at 45k or so.

Im still in my basic warranty as well as the esp, has anyone had much luck having a dealer take care of this? I have not read through the 60 pages of this yet but it seems like not much Luck on that.

The sensor is out of stock atm on rock auto otherwise I would pick up one

 

[RedlandRanger]

My truck at 52k miles is starting to do this really started at 45k or so.

Im still in my basic warranty as well as the esp, has anyone had much luck having a dealer take care of this? I have not read through the 60 pages of this yet but it seems like not much Luck on that.

The sensor is out of stock atm on rock auto otherwise I would pick up one

They usually come back in stock pretty quickly. Use the "email me when this is available" thingy that Rockauto has. I bought two when I bought my first one. When I need to replace it again, I'll probably buy two more. They aren't all that expensive.

 

[Motorpsychology]

My truck at 52k miles is starting to do this really started at 45k or so.

Im still in my basic warranty as well as the esp, has anyone had much luck having a dealer take care of this? I have not read through the 60 pages of this yet but it seems like not much Luck on that.

The sensor is out of stock atm on rock auto otherwise I would pick up one

I had mine done at my dealership last May under ex.warranty at 92,000mi. It's been good ever since. The sensor failed because of carbon buildup and coolant leaking from the EGR cooler.

 

[My12SecRanger]

After replacing everything related to the egr system on my truck, my thoughts are most of what I replaced was not necessary, I would recommend using shop air to blow thru the dpfe sensor lines on the tube and replace the sensor first

 

[rrwhitman]

Hope the double post is okay - I meant to reply to this thread.

I replaced my sensor (with the hoses) today. 80,000 miles. I had been experiencing stumbling and bucking, particularly at low speed/part throttle. Yesterday while sitting idling the check engine light came on. Code P139C. My local Ford dealer had the LB5Z-9J433-B assembly in their regional warehouse. Called at 0730 had the part at 1430. They would not discount - cost was about $150. Replacement was straight forward. Used a stepstool to get up and back over the engine. Released the old hose clamps using angled needle nose pliers. It's dark back there, even with a flashlight. You have to work a bit by feel. Putting the new hoses on with their plastic release rings was quite easy. Symptoms are gone. Thanks to everyone who contributes to this site. Cheers.

 

[airline tech]

Ok, as requested awhile back - A Live Data Drive (Test Results) for a Normal System

I would post a video but the data changes so quickly - it's easier to show via screen shots.

I weeded out some PIDs - for a simpler view

Hopefully this will give a better understanding of what a - Good Reading should look like for T-Shooting the system, If or when mine starts to show signs of failure I will update with a known failure (view)

EDIT: I forgot to add this - T-Shoot Screenshot

 

[Tres3]

My truck at 52k miles is starting to do this really started at 45k or so.

Im still in my basic warranty as well as the esp, has anyone had much luck having a dealer take care of this? I have not read through the 60 pages of this yet but it seems like not much Luck on that.

The sensor is out of stock atm on rock auto otherwise I would pick up one

I used the info here and have a curious Advisor, so I was able to get DPFE replaced under my ESP.

 

[airline tech]

I added another screenshot to my post above (Scenario-Shot)

 

[TJC]

I added another screenshot to my post above (Scenario-Shot)

Re: the newly added Frame 1253

Was your example referencing conditions at Idle, under load, or just in general?

I am tempted to reinstall my failing sensor and see what readings are being returned vs the functioning sensor.

 

[airline tech]

Re: the newly added Frame 1253

Was your example referencing conditions at Idle, under load, or just in general?

I am tempted to reinstall my failing sensor and see what readings are being returned vs the functioning sensor.

At Highway Speed - 62 MPH
Here is the full unaltered - PIDs I had set to record on this drive.
I do not remember precisely what I was doing as far as the pedal here as I also romped on the pedal a few times in the drive to force a (High Load) this shot should be at cruise, I wish I would have added a few more PIDs to see throttle position and the Trans for the Downshift command.
I have a separate drive for the Trans as well but want a few drives to compare the results to see if the pressures follow a pattern (of normal) or are they fluctuating pressures.

I have done some research and found what I believe are the specific PIDs to monitor for the CDF Drum Issue (During the 3rd to 4th Gear) Shift
If I recall, it's the Line Pressure and Pressure Sol (C) are the highlight of what to watch at that precise moment.

This is one area where the Snappy Shines - I can bring the Recorded Data into ShopStream and customize what I want to view and also switch to graphing if I need to.
It's somewhat easier than just a screen recording and not being able to customize the PIDs I actually want to focus on.
The downside to this tool is you cannot (SAVE) custom PID Lists, like the other 2 I have where I can just hook up and load the list I want - The Snappy - You have to take the time to (select) the PIDs again once you end the session.
I can do 250 PIDs at once - but the refresh rate suffers some for that many.


So Frame 1253 - Full PID List I am recording - I am guessing @ cruise

and Frame 1708 - noted MODERATE load increase with some EGR Flow, again this is where I should have added some PIDs to see actual TPS and Trans Gear Position to note Downshifts

I am curious - what you see with the old sensor and if the DPFE Voltage stays Steady or does it fluctuate and flicker and what effect that has on the PSI reading - in this frame the voltage dropped down to 1.4 volts, but it is also in a transition stage.
For the most part the voltage is steady at 1.5 v and 0 flow, if there is more than a .2 PSI reading on the DPFE Pressure - the voltage shifts between 1.4 and 1.7 volts, but it's a steady transition.
I think I can say - 1 thing is clear and that is - we have a TIGHT pressure threshold on the DPFE and that is why any moisture in the sensor can throw it off.
It does not take much EGR Flow (quick open and close) to get the sensor to pick it up, which the Ranger appears to do (brief) moments of EGR then close. I never really paid attention to the EGR system, but it actually cycles (Open & Closed) quite a bit in during driving

 

[airline tech]

I wanted to add some wiring integrity checks to help isolate (Bad Sensor) or (Wiring)

Mainly for Voltage Checks on the DPFE and what the Scan Tool PIDs Defaulted to with the DPFE & MAPT Connectors Disconnected as I wanted a (TRUE) Test vs Manual (Guideline)

This is only a @ Idle Reference for a (PSI) to (KPA) Compare - Scan Tool
Switched (Display Units)

Below is the PID Readings for (BOTH) PSI & KPA (Normal @ Idle) Real Live Data

DPFE Pressure: -0.06 to -0.07 PSI & -0.39 to -0.51 KPA (Fluctuating)
DPFE Voltage: 1.48 Volts

MAPT Pressure (High) Resolution: 5.05 PSI & 35 KPA
MAPT Pressure: 4.93 PSI & 35 KPA
MAPT Voltage: 0.53 Volts

Same Readings: @ KOEO plus a Barro PID (Ck-Match) for MAP Pressure

DPFE Pressure: -0.06 PSI & -0.39 KPA
DPFE Voltage: 1.48 Volts

Barro: 14.21 PSI & 98 KPA
MAPT Pressure (High) Resolution: 14.32 PSI & 98.75 KPA
MAPT Pressure: 14.21 PSI & 98 KPA
MAPT Voltage: 1.51 Volts


I wanted to see what the PIDs would (DEFAULT) read with the DPFE & MAPT (Disconnected)- KOEO
Reason: Circuit Test (Results) to see if wiring or another sensor is affecting the (PID Display)

DPFE Pressure: 12.67 PSI & 87.35 KPA
DPFE Voltage: 5.0 Volts

MAPT Pressure (High) Resolution: 47.23 PSI & 325.75 KPA
MAPT Pressure: 36.98 PSI & 98 KPA
MAPT Voltage: 5.0 Volts

I also wanted to (Physically) Test the DPFE Circuit with a (Fluke Meter) -Connector Disconnected:

Verifies VREF Voltage is Good & Signal Return is Good
Pin 3 VREF to Pin 2 - Signal Return = 5.0 Volts
Pin 3 VREF to Body Ground = 5.0 Volts

Voltage Drop (Test) for the Signal Return - under 0.020 is Good
Red Lead: Pin 2 Signal Return--- Black Lead: (Neg) Battery Post= 0.014 Volts
A secondary verification the Signal Return is good to the battery.

Test (Signal) Wire for (Voltage)
Pin 2 Signal Return to Pin 1 Signal -= 0 Volts
You are testing if the signal wire is (Touching) Voltage - shewing the PID Display Reading when the connector is connected.

Note: To see the actual reading that the Scan Tool is Displaying - Comes from the signal wire and it sends it to the PCM.
So, without a scan tool - to view this voltage (1.5 Volts) you reconnect the connector and back-probe. Red Lead - Signal (Pin 1) and Black Lead - Signal Return (Pin 2)

 

[airline tech]

Since - I have been made aware that SOME Scan Tool's may display the DPFE Pressure PID differently - Raw Data vs Simplified Data (Higher End Scan Tools) that shows a good visual indication of -No-EGR Flow (Neg) -0.09 to EGR Flow (Positive Pressure) - easy visual which is simplified by the tool itself.

Some Scan Tools - will not do this for you and you MUST KNOW this table to determine is it a Good Reading or a Bad Reading?

This chart will help:
Note: Using this chart - you note that you still have a (Neg) reading even with EGR Flow, where other scan tools the pressure is reported (Positive) when EGR is flowing.

The bottom line is: No matter what scan tool you have - you want to see the DPFE react to the EGR Valve opening and MOVE in the Positive Direction (Towards 0) if you have a negative display or display a (Positive) Pressure - other side of zero, as this is the key factor of the failure point on the DPFE - if it does read (see) the positive flow - it will continue to command the EGR vale to open until it sees a positive pressure, so the EGR Valve ends up being opened greater than required.

 

[chriskm1968]

So after 8 months my Ranger was starting to do it again so I replaced them yesterday and all was good again. I figure I'll keep one on hand and just replace as needed.

 

[TJC]

Since - I have been made aware that SOME Scan Tool's may display the DPFE Pressure PID differently - Raw Data vs Simplified Data (Higher End Scan Tools) that shows a good visual indication of -No-EGR Flow (Neg) -0.09 to EGR Flow (Positive Pressure) - easy visual which is simplified by the tool itself.

Some Scan Tools - will not do this for you and you MUST KNOW this table to determine is it a Good Reading or a Bad Reading?

This chart will help:
Note: Using this chart - you note that you still have a (Neg) reading even with EGR Flow, where other scan tools the pressure is reported (Positive) when EGR is flowing.

The bottom line is: No matter what scan tool you have - you want to see the DPFE react to the EGR Valve opening and MOVE in the Positive Direction (Towards 0) if you have a negative display or display a (Positive) Pressure - other side of zero, as this is the key factor of the failure point on the DPFE - if it does read (see) the positive flow - it will continue to command the EGR vale to open until it sees a positive pressure, so the EGR Valve ends up being opened greater than required.

You are constantly making my Ranger Maintenance tasks simpler. It is very much appreciated.

I already had your scanner DPFE & EGR PID Diagnostic Values in my library, and now have a wonderful concise Chart to accompany them.

Thank You!

I took the liberty of "prettying up" your chart before converting it to a PDF file, and adding it to my "Airline Tech Library" in my Diagnostic Library Notebook. I highlighted the Normal and Max Command rows to draw my old eyes to the acceptable range for ease of use. I remember it now, but 2 years from now when I need it, i want it to be obvious to me.

When I worked at IBM, I valued people with critical thinking skills above all else. I knew that they were adaptable and could handle any task I threw at them. It didn't mean they liked the work, but they had the skills to figure out what needed to be done... and did it.

It is amazing where you find these people. I had PhD's on staff who could not string two sentences together, let alone take disparate facts presented to them and draw conclusions. At the same time I hired high school graduates who showed those skills, and within a few months excelled at the job.

You've got great skills and use them. I admire and appreciate your work.

Thank you again!

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