GM is pulling the plug on gas and diesel by 2035

[DHH]

What the hell. May as throw in my 1/2 cent.
I'm an old fart, so I should be less receptive to change, but I have no problem with EV's.
For me, power is power...and EV's can have a BUNCH of it! I don't object to going EV, I just don't like how it's always portrayed as a "clean" alternative. I'm pretty much reiterating what others have already said, but if every single vehicle was electric today, we would be no better off climate wise. If you live in one of the few areas that can produce "clean" electricity (I.e: hydro-electric), there would still need to be more dams built, which is environmentally harmful in its own way. For the vast majority of the planet, there'll be a need for more coal, diesel, natural gas, or nuclear. Then there is the rare earth materials required for batteries as well as the incredibly massive demand for battery disposal.
IMO, currently, hybrids are the cleanest way to go.

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[pull string get cookies]

I'm aware of their history. What's your point? Are you purporting that GM is beholden to the government more than their shareholders?

My point is that they should’ve been allowed to fail as the free market determined. Just as any other business would’ve, and is, allowed to fail (especially during COVID).

 

[Hounddog409]

They better have a plan to overhaul the whole countries electrical grid first. Just a look back at CA this past summer where they had more rolling blackouts and were telling people to shut their ac and high consumption appliances off during peak hours. Now picture the whole whole country mimicking this?

Lol. Electric cars powered by coal.

The amount of carbon created by the manufacture of the batterys and cars will not be recouped in our lifetime.

Not to mention the carbon created to charge them.

Such a crock of shit to appease the tree huggers.

 

[Phessor]

T

how do you know ? back in the 70s I worked briefly one summer on the night shift as fireman on a diesel loco that moved cars for Bethlehem Steel. So figuring I'd be up all night working I slept that afternoon, go to work at 11, we move cars around for maybe 4 hours, park the loco and the brakeman and conductor call it a night, the engineer says you're the new guy so you have to stay in case we have to move more cars, but for now get some shut eye - luckily I had brought a book. Going forward I was always happy to jump out and "line the irons" if only to stretch my legs instead of just sitting on my *ss. Then one night the train crew has me throwing switches, I ask where we are going and they say "you'll see" and we take the loco to a remote part of the plant behind a large empty building, I see flames, lo and behold these guys are having a bbq at 2am, quaffing beers and partying it up along with a few ladies of the night in the mix. No small wonder the freakin steel industry got walloped by foreign competition as these were highly paid workers that rarely put in 8 hrs.

But like the fireman's job eventually was eliminated the long term future of the gasoline engine as the prevailing power source is in doubt.
I

This is a freight train, they are huge V-16 diesel powered generators. Each train that I deal with has five of these engines and 140 plus cars. There are electric engines, but they are not used on the open lines.

I worked at a sawmill just out of high school and they had a piece of equipment for lifting large bundles of logs, LeTourneau log stackers. It also had a diesel engine that was coupled to a generator that powered an electric motor at all four wheels.

 

[NickTheEnforcer]

You can google search articles that are already talking about cars being able to wireless charge. Who knows what challenges and side affects that possibility will bring. If one were to believe that GM's goal is realistic and part of a general consensus of the industry then my next move would be parking some long term money on the key rare-earth components, metals etc. that are finite nature.

 

[Obijack]

Over the next decade will be the time to buy a big v8 muscle car if you don’t have one. The muscle car wars will not be around for ever.

 

[NickTheEnforcer]

Hi Alex,

If we have three Tesla electric vehicle on our street, plugged in to charge our underground wiring to all the houses cannot withstand the current needed and cause power failure. We simply do not have the local infrastructure to support electric vehicles nor do we have the power plants to supply the energy. Our neighbor, snotty as he is with his Tesla, faced a power failure of our whole area. He could not move his vehicle so I told him I would be happy to take him to the electrical station to fill his bucket with electrons to dump into his Tesla.... Silence.... As I said Snotty Neighbor...AMF!

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Electric only folks can be pretty $hitty, I've run into some up here. A friend who owns a small local shop had an out of warranty Prius in that he said was a $3k battery job, not sure what all had to be done, nor do I have all the details but thats a pretty hard hit that I'm guessing would be much higher at the dealership.

 

[VAMike]

You can google search articles that are already talking about cars being able to wireless charge. Who knows what challenges and side affects that possibility will bring. If one were to believe that GM's goal is realistic and part of a general consensus of the industry then my next move would be parking some long term money on the key rare-earth components, metals etc. that are finite nature.

Which is great, until the tech changes. Remember when palladium was the thing the industry was going to run out of, so ford bought a pile of it then wrote down a billion dollars worth?

 

[Hounddog409]

Electric only folks can be pretty $hitty, I've run into some up here. A friend who owns a small local shop had an out of warranty Prius in that he said was a $3k battery job, not sure what all had to be done, nor do I have all the details but thats a pretty hard hit that I'm guessing would be much higher at the dealership.

Those batteries have a life span like all batteries.

And they are expensive to replace in a car. Which everyone owner will discover at some point.

 

[r1ch999999]

The problem with electric vehicles is we don't have the infrastructure to support charging. How will you make a long trip? How will everyone charge? On a related note, power plants across the US are being dismantled, especially fossil fuel plants, due to the costly upgrades the government is forcing on them, even the plants that are only in reserve. Speaking with my father, who worked in the plants and keeps in touch with them, several of the power plants in the US are now foreign owned. I have to wonder if the real owners are Russian or Chinese, and if their plan is to stress our power grid by removing our power reserves.

I think the solution is a distributed system. Several smaller plants, coupled with greener means of production, that run at 50% capacity so when one goes down others can pick up the slack. Granted, that doesn't solve the natural resource problem that car batteries are causing, but it at least fixes our grid.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

 

[dtech]

Electric only folks can be pretty $hitty, I've run into some up here. A friend who owns a small local shop had an out of warranty Prius in that he said was a $3k battery job, not sure what all had to be done, nor do I have all the details but thats a pretty hard hit that I'm guessing would be much higher at the dealership.

Personally I've not heard a whole lot of anti-EV owner sentiment with the exception of some owners of larger vehicles such as pickups wanting to crush slow moving prius' headed up I-70 to the mtns, have seen some amount of anti-mini cooper owner feelings expressed as might= right ?

EV batteries are commonly warranted for 8yrs and 100k miles, many are lasting longer than that and there continues to be large investments resulting in improving the technology - both from a performance and longevity standpoint, and like lead acid batts they are recyclable so eventually that should contribute to lower replacement costs.

Many experts feel that much of the US electrical grid is not up to supplying future demand and updating that will require large capital investments, will be interesting to see who ends up paying for that should it ever happen. And of course EV vehicles don't pay taxes on gas that contribute to highway upkeep.

Oil and gas companies still are up there amongst the top spenders in lobbying US congress, so their interests aren't going to be unheard.

 

[DeathRanger]

Changes will need to be made and shift from using our energy to move energy, (using fuel to deliver fuel around the country), and instead generate energy locally.

Most electric cars are about 3-4 times as efficient as gas car so overall energy needs can be reduced.

EV's don't pay gas tax but in more and more states they pay a special electric vehicle tax for not using gas

 

[Sashimi_Moto]

To the point about "Well the ranger loses half it's efficiency while towing" - that's sort of true and vehicle specific not ICE specific because my E450 only goes from 9mph to 7pmg when towing, which isn't half. Also the "recharge" time is 5 minutes and the "recharge" stations are everywhere but the primary issue with the ranger is capacity (fuel tank) which isn't the case on many other ICE trucks that tow.

So that's where I'm at with EV - It needs to travel as far as my bladder in 1 sitting while towing (250-300miles, and recharge that same range in 10-15 minutes or less.

If the battery packs can't last more than 10 years or so that also a concern, unless the changing of the pack is cost effective - which it would be overtime, however it could be expensive from a labor standpoint if the batteries become integrated into the unibody/frame design (structural).

The Tax is AND isn't a concern. If I swapped my fleet to be fully EV, I'm totally fine paying an alternate tax equivalent to what I would pay in gas taxes on my previous vehicles. However HOW they go about calculating it is a concern because WA/OR have considered tracking miles driven which I don't prefer. I think the best way to tax EVs should be based on weight (any vehicle for that matter) and during the time of registration. EVs are naturally heavy and vehicle weight accounts for road damage more than any other factor next to freeze/thaw.

 

[VegasP11]

That "hybrid engine" in a freight train is a V-16 supercharged diesel engine, coupled to a generator to produce the power to the drive trucks to move it. There is NO battery reserve, shut off the diesel engine, no power!

Ask me how I know.

The point I was making is that it is a "hybrid" engine. You must be a hog head too.

 

[dtech]

The Tax is AND isn't a concern. If I swapped my fleet to be fully EV, I'm totally fine paying an alternate tax equivalent to what I would pay in gas taxes on my previous vehicles. However HOW they go about calculating it is a concern because WA/OR have considered tracking miles driven which I don't prefer. I think the best way to tax EVs should be based on weight (any vehicle for that matter) and during the time of registration. EVs are naturally heavy and vehicle weight accounts for road damage more than any other factor next to freeze/thaw.

I thought OR actually does track n tax vehicle miles driven. Depending on how the vehicle is tracked - it raises big brother concerns.

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