Turbo Lag

outdoorphotog

Well-Known Member
First Name
Ian
Joined
Dec 15, 2019
Threads
21
Messages
817
Reaction score
2,573
Location
Healdsburg, CA
Vehicle(s)
2019 Lincoln Navigator L
Occupation
Limo Driver
I noticed if i accelerate moderatly untl about 2,500rpms and then punch the throttle, it feels like it pulls much harder then if i punch the throttle from a green light. I haven't monitored the boost level while doing either.
Sponsored

 

Lunchbox88

Well-Known Member
First Name
Logan
Joined
Jun 21, 2019
Threads
3
Messages
335
Reaction score
303
Location
Missouri, USA
Vehicle(s)
2019 Ranger SuperCrew FX4
I noticed if i accelerate moderatly untl about 2,500rpms and then punch the throttle, it feels like it pulls much harder then if i punch the throttle from a green light. I haven't monitored the boost level while doing either.
I feel like this might be from torque limiting that Ford does at lower RPM
 
  • Like
Reactions: Doc

LurchOR

Active Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Threads
2
Messages
33
Reaction score
41
Location
PNW
Vehicle(s)
2019 Ranger Lariat w/501A, Built 02-08-2019
This is a common mis-conception. The adaptive feature of the transmisison is to adapt itself to manufacturing variances, not to driving style.
Could you provide a link for this info?
Thanks
 
  • Like
Reactions: Doc

RedlandRanger

Moderator
First Name
Rob
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Threads
35
Messages
4,592
Reaction score
8,826
Location
Oregon
Vehicle(s)
2019 Ford Ranger Lariat FX4, 1973 Mercury Capri
Vehicle Showcase
1
Could you provide a link for this info?
Thanks
It was a while back and there were several confirmations of it. I'm having a hard time finding them, but here are some that I found that refer to it (this is the F-150, but it is the same transmission):

https://ford.oemdtc.com/3873/harsh-...uminated-mil-dtc-p0711-2017-ford-f-150-raptor

NOTE: ADVISE THE CUSTOMER THAT THIS VEHICLE IS EQUIPPED WITH AN ADAPTIVE TRANSMISSION SHIFT STRATEGY WHICH ALLOWS THE VEHICLE’S COMPUTER TO LEARN THE TRANSMISSION’S UNIQUE PARAMETERS AND IMPROVE SHIFT QUALITY. WHEN THE ADAPTIVE STRATEGY IS RESET, THE COMPUTER WILL BEGIN A RE-LEARNING PROCESS. THIS RE-LEARNING PROCESS MAY RESULT IN FIRMER THAN NORMAL UPSHIFTS AND DOWNSHIFTS FOR SEVERAL DAYS.
The "unique parameters" was confirmed to be adapting to manufacturing tolerances and performance. It has nothing to do with driver habits. It is basically a self tuning transmission that is continually monitoring itself.

This: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10143076-9999.pdf

Has the same comment in it.

Sorry, I can't find the more definitive link. Maybe someone else can find it.
 

LurchOR

Active Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Threads
2
Messages
33
Reaction score
41
Location
PNW
Vehicle(s)
2019 Ranger Lariat w/501A, Built 02-08-2019
It was a while back and there were several confirmations of it. I'm having a hard time finding them, but here are some that I found that refer to it (this is the F-150, but it is the same transmission):

https://ford.oemdtc.com/3873/harsh-...uminated-mil-dtc-p0711-2017-ford-f-150-raptor



The "unique parameters" was confirmed to be adapting to manufacturing tolerances and performance. It has nothing to do with driver habits. It is basically a self tuning transmission that is continually monitoring itself.

This: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10143076-9999.pdf

Has the same comment in it.

Sorry, I can't find the more definitive link. Maybe someone else can find it.
Thanks for the links. I'm curious about this as I've had transmissions in the past where the transmission did learn the habits of the driver. Good to know.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Doc


TechnicallyReal

Well-Known Member
First Name
Ryan
Joined
Aug 20, 2020
Threads
6
Messages
460
Reaction score
606
Location
Eh?
Vehicle(s)
'19 Ranger Lariat 4x4
Occupation
Software Engineer / IT Admin
This is a common mis-conception. The adaptive feature of the transmisison is to adapt itself to manufacturing variances, not to driving style.
This is interesting to me as I've had 3 Korean vehicles all show the same annoying behaviors where they would be silky smooth and predictable when reset, but then as they learned they would start to shift harder and sometimes surge forward from a stop or hesitate between 2nd and 3rd. It seemed like no matter how I drove them they would always learn the same thing. 3 different vehicles.. but all same/similar engine and transmissions.

However all that being said, I drove my Ranger around with a lead foot the other day, messing around, and it started to shift into each gear harder for a day or two. I would feel pulled back in my seat slightly for every shift, no matter how softly I was accelerating. I had stopped driving hard and now it's more subtle and soft again, without that pull. Makes me think that the Ranger did learn from me driving like and ass, and then leaned again when I stopped driving like an ass.

Personally I hope it's like you say and only learns its own parameters. I like these to behave the same all the time regardless of driver or behavior.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Doc

RedlandRanger

Moderator
First Name
Rob
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Threads
35
Messages
4,592
Reaction score
8,826
Location
Oregon
Vehicle(s)
2019 Ford Ranger Lariat FX4, 1973 Mercury Capri
Vehicle Showcase
1
This is interesting to me as I've had 3 Korean vehicles all show the same annoying behaviors where they would be silky smooth and predictable when reset, but then as they learned they would start to shift harder and sometimes surge forward from a stop or hesitate between 2nd and 3rd. It seemed like no matter how I drove them they would always learn the same thing. 3 different vehicles.. but all same/similar engine and transmissions.

However all that being said, I drove my Ranger around with a lead foot the other day, messing around, and it started to shift into each gear harder for a day or two. I would feel pulled back in my seat slightly for every shift, no matter how softly I was accelerating. I had stopped driving hard and now it's more subtle and soft again, without that pull. Makes me think that the Ranger did learn from me driving like and ass, and then leaned again when I stopped driving like an ass.

Personally I hope it's like you say and only learns its own parameters. I like these to behave the same all the time regardless of driver or behavior.
Maybe that is the mis-perception - it modifies its behavior depending on how the transmission is functioning. When you are pushing it harder, it is functioning differently. When you stop pushing it so hard, it behaves differently. Someone might interpret that to be based on the drivers habits, but in reality is just responding to how the transmission is functioning. The way I understand it, it is constantly monitoring itself, making corrections/changes based on the current operating behavior. I liken it to the Holley EFI units that "learn" and are basically in a perpetual learn mode (unless you turn it off after the initial learn period). They continually adapt themselves to how it is functioning.

I don't know if that makes it clearer or confuses things, but that is my understanding of how the transmission operates.

I wish I could find the citation that was clearer on how it functions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Doc

TechnicallyReal

Well-Known Member
First Name
Ryan
Joined
Aug 20, 2020
Threads
6
Messages
460
Reaction score
606
Location
Eh?
Vehicle(s)
'19 Ranger Lariat 4x4
Occupation
Software Engineer / IT Admin
Maybe that is the mis-perception - it modifies its behavior depending on how the transmission is functioning. When you are pushing it harder, it is functioning differently. When you stop pushing it so hard, it behaves differently. Someone might interpret that to be based on the drivers habits, but in reality is just responding to how the transmission is functioning. The way I understand it, it is constantly monitoring itself, making corrections/changes based on the current operating behavior. I liken it to the Holley EFI units that "learn" and are basically in a perpetual learn mode (unless you turn it off after the initial learn period). They continually adapt themselves to how it is functioning.

I don't know if that makes it clearer or confuses things, but that is my understanding of how the transmission operates.

I wish I could find the citation that was clearer on how it functions.
That makes sense to me and I think it explains a lot. The transmission isn't adjusting to your driving habits but will adjust to any unintended side effects your habits have on how it functions.

That would explain why my Hyundai and KIAs always ended up working the same way no matter how I drove. I once tried a reset and then drove super softly for a week, and then did another reset where I drove more aggressively for a week, and in both cases I landed back where I started before the resets.

I imagine the 10-speed in the Ranger has a lot more going on inside and would be more susceptible to adjusting itself when being pushed hard, than the 6 speeds in my other vehicles would have been.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Doc

RedlandRanger

Moderator
First Name
Rob
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Threads
35
Messages
4,592
Reaction score
8,826
Location
Oregon
Vehicle(s)
2019 Ford Ranger Lariat FX4, 1973 Mercury Capri
Vehicle Showcase
1
That makes sense to me and I think it explains a lot. The transmission isn't adjusting to your driving habits but will adjust to any unintended side effects your habits have on how it functions.

That would explain why my Hyundai and KIAs always ended up working the same way no matter how I drove. I once tried a reset and then drove super softly for a week, and then did another reset where I drove more aggressively for a week, and in both cases I landed back where I started before the resets.

I imagine the 10-speed in the Ranger has a lot more going on inside and would be more susceptible to adjusting itself when being pushed hard, than the 6 speeds in my other vehicles would have been.
IMO, it is truly an engineering marvel. It is pretty complicated, but it seems to hold up pretty well. It is in a LOT of vehicles now. The other variable in the transmission is the software - Since it was joint developed by Ford and GM it is in vehicles by both. And they may differentiate themselves by how they program the software for it. It is very possible the "adaptive" part is part of the unique software, so even the adaptive part could be unique to a vehicle.

If you are really interested in it, you should google youtube for a 10r80 teardown video. They take the whole transmission apart. It is pretty amazing to watch.
 

TechnicallyReal

Well-Known Member
First Name
Ryan
Joined
Aug 20, 2020
Threads
6
Messages
460
Reaction score
606
Location
Eh?
Vehicle(s)
'19 Ranger Lariat 4x4
Occupation
Software Engineer / IT Admin
IMO, it is truly an engineering marvel. It is pretty complicated, but it seems to hold up pretty well. It is in a LOT of vehicles now. The other variable in the transmission is the software - Since it was joint developed by Ford and GM it is in vehicles by both. And they may differentiate themselves by how they program the software for it. It is very possible the "adaptive" part is part of the unique software, so even the adaptive part could be unique to a vehicle.

If you are really interested in it, you should google youtube for a 10r80 teardown video. They take the whole transmission apart. It is pretty amazing to watch.
When I traded my Sorento for the Ranger last week I was worried I was going to hate the 10-speed. I had test-driven a newer Sorento with 8-speed and wasn't a fan of it. It seemed to me that more gears = worse predictability and more awkward shifts.

Now that I have the Ranger, I am loving the 10-speed. It's well mannered and out of mind for light driving. It's like a predictable 5-speed when you put your foot down. Tow mode and Sport mode are exactly what you would want them to be. Super happy.

I noticed that the transmission was a result of a joint-venture with GM and I am a huge fan of collaborations like that. I figure if 2 competitors work together on something, you know it's going to be good. Laziness and complacency are more likely to be replaced with competitiveness and innovation as the engineers try to one-up each other (or at least attempt to avoid their usual shoddiness from being noticed by an outside engineer).
 

RedlandRanger

Moderator
First Name
Rob
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Threads
35
Messages
4,592
Reaction score
8,826
Location
Oregon
Vehicle(s)
2019 Ford Ranger Lariat FX4, 1973 Mercury Capri
Vehicle Showcase
1
When I traded my Sorento for the Ranger last week I was worried I was going to hate the 10-speed. I had test-driven a newer Sorento with 8-speed and wasn't a fan of it. It seemed to me that more gears = worse predictability and more awkward shifts.

Now that I have the Ranger, I am loving the 10-speed. It's well mannered and out of mind for light driving. It's like a predictable 5-speed when you put your foot down. Tow mode and Sport mode are exactly what you would want them to be. Super happy.

I noticed that the transmission was a result of a joint-venture with GM and I am a huge fan of collaborations like that. I figure if 2 competitors work together on something, you know it's going to be good. Laziness and complacency are more likely to be replaced with competitiveness and innovation as the engineers try to one-up each other (or at least attempt to avoid their usual shoddiness from being noticed by an outside engineer).
I had the same concerns about the 10 speed before I got mine. My son thought I was crazy, but I actually ordered my Ranger before I was able to test drive one. It was a leap of faith, but I am not disappointed at all. I've heard people complain about 8 speeds (it can't figure out what gear it wants to be in), but this 10 speed seems to know what the right gear is. I've had it downshift from 10 to 4 or 5 if I jump on it. Conversely, when being light on the throttle it doesn't keep shifting up and down. If it needs to shift down it stays there for a while. I think the 2.3 with the 10 speed is an incredible combo - they work exceptionally well together. This is one place that Ford REALLY nailed it. I think the powertrain is the best thing about this truck.
 

TechnicallyReal

Well-Known Member
First Name
Ryan
Joined
Aug 20, 2020
Threads
6
Messages
460
Reaction score
606
Location
Eh?
Vehicle(s)
'19 Ranger Lariat 4x4
Occupation
Software Engineer / IT Admin
I had the same concerns about the 10 speed before I got mine. My son thought I was crazy, but I actually ordered my Ranger before I was able to test drive one. It was a leap of faith, but I am not disappointed at all. I've heard people complain about 8 speeds (it can't figure out what gear it wants to be in), but this 10 speed seems to know what the right gear is. I've had it downshift from 10 to 4 or 5 if I jump on it. Conversely, when being light on the throttle it doesn't keep shifting up and down. If it needs to shift down it stays there for a while. I think the 2.3 with the 10 speed is an incredible combo - they work exceptionally well together. This is one place that Ford REALLY nailed it. I think the powertrain is the best thing about this truck.
100% agree and I think it was a good call for them to only offer this one combo rather than try and support multiple options with V6's and such. I think this works out better for both Ford and for the owners.

There's a guide video on Ford's YouTube channel that explains some of the behaviors that the 10-speed will exhibit in different situations. I was pleasantly surprised to see that when you're accelerating hard, it literally turns into a 5-speed. It skips every other gear, instead opting to go into higher RPMs for longer. I like that behavior, and it certainly helps that it actually seems to know the best gear to downshift into when you punch it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Doc

Zaph

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2019
Threads
10
Messages
768
Reaction score
2,110
Location
Wisconsin
Vehicle(s)
2019 Ranger, A whole garage full of motorcycles
Occupation
Engineer
It's not Turbo lag. Chances are it is the drive-by-wire and the trans taking it's time to downshift. While Stock and not in Sport mode, it will prioritize economy over performance.
This. Tromp on the gas and the computer has to decide which gear to be in an then take 1-2 seconds to get there. An eternity.

My first Ranger was a manual transmission. Man I miss that. Though in all honesty the Ranger is faster is faster than my Escape at getting in gear and going.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Doc

treimche

Well-Known Member
First Name
Troy
Joined
Apr 8, 2019
Threads
39
Messages
722
Reaction score
882
Location
FORT MYERS, FL
Vehicle(s)
2019 Ranger SOLD. 2005 S2000
Occupation
Accountant
This is right from the owner's manual, page 155. I remember also reading that the adaptation process does not have anything to do with how you drive, but how the mechanicals of the transmission are operating, and change over time.

Screen Shot 2020-08-31 at 9.22.37 PM.png
 

SAZ Ranger

Active Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Aug 12, 2020
Threads
7
Messages
40
Reaction score
77
Location
Southern Arizona
Vehicle(s)
2019 Ranger Lariat 2wd
Occupation
Retired
I live in Arizona and have noticed this to some degree also. I mostly drive in the city, a small city and speeds rarely are above 45-50. What I do is leave it in normal drive mode and push the minus button on the shifter once to turn on Progressive Gear Selection mode, the gear indicator shows up on the right portion of the dash panel where the compass is located etc.. It will show what gear the transmission is in at all times. Since I know my speed is rarely going to be above 45mph or so I lock out the higher gears ( 10th, 9th, and sometimes 8th), this stops the transmission from shifting into the higher gears which will bog down the engine at lower speeds. At say 45mph in 7th gear it keeps my rpm's at about 1700 to 1800 rpm's which I like, the engine is not bogged down, the turbo is at a decent speed to respond pretty quickly and I haven't noticed a drop in gas mileage doing this. Watch the whole video. At about 58 seconds in it talks about Progressive Gear Selection mode. Pressing the +button will turn all 10 gears back on. I use this mode all the time.
Sponsored

 
 



Top