The Facts: Ford Performance Fox 2.0 Vs. Fox Performance 2.0

[Gerder]

I know the O.E. Fox suspension on the F150 Raptors is rebuildable.

But I'm not sure on the Tremor suspensions. I'll bet the OP can find out though.

If I were a Tremor owner with no plans to upgrade my suspension, I'd be scanning for low mileage takeoffs to store for future use. I can't imagine a person lifting a Tremor would want more than about $300-$400 for front strut assemblies and rear shocks.

I am very happy with the adjustable profender-shocks from thailand (the land of the ROW Ranger). They fit my needs very well. very cheap in comparison to the fox and the usual FoMoCo aswell. Easy accessible knob to adjust rebound and compression. … ? and it works! soft for dailydrivin, firm for the days carrying loads or want to shred.

UPDATE: seems they didn‘t sell the “budget line“ in NA … payed 350€ for the set last year. And Yes, the colors are a mess…?

Sponsored

 

[Jhbryaniv]

Just because they aren't rebuildable doesn't mean they won't wear out...

I imagine under normal usage fox shocks could go 100k miles without needing replaced. Just like a standard suspension component.

But when you start banging on them they are gonna need some love.

So those other brands may not need to be rebuilt, but they will eventually need to be replaced...

 

[samayeam]

We have a 2022 Tremor - and one of the reasons we went that route was the shocks and springs giving the ride we wanted from day 1 - no mods needed. I too debated about the merits of doing so with an expectation that at some point I may need to have the shocks rebuilt sooner than needing to replace some other throw away shock.

If you are in SoCal - pretty easy to find a reputable off road shop that services shocks. Though wait times can be a bit long in some cases. East coast seems like a desert for those services.

I've taken the Fox (mountain bike) suspension technician course and have an mtb acquaintance that started his own bike suspension service company. While it is easier for a novice to service bike suspension - one really should have some special tools like shaft clamps. And I mean full service, not just air can or lower leg service. I mean damper rebuild. When I lived in Maine - I asked the guy I knew who started his own company for bike suspension if he could service the 2.5" RR ICONs on my RAM. He used to be a mechanic for a motocross racing team and was their suspension tech. He wouldn't touch them and after taking the Fox course myself - I understand why. #1 is having the right equipment to ensure depressurized and then pressurize...then all of the right sized shaft clamps. And access to the drawings to show you the proper sequence and orientation of particular valve stacks. Maybe the fox on our Tremor isn't as complicated as the ICONs on my RAM - but I wouldn't attempt overhaul at home.

And finally - one way to maybe reassure those of us who worry about our shocks it to find a place that can periodically check pressures for you as a health check of the shock. I had an ICON on my RAM fail and was able to get ORW in El Cajon to service it, replace all 4 tires (about 35k on the set and one tire badly cupped with inside edge wear), and alignment all in one day. I asked them about servicing the other 3 while the truck was with them. They said they would inspect and check pressures - but since I'd had ICON service them around 20K ago and don't do high speed runs with this truck (I'm over 12K with camper and supplies on board) - they didn't recommend servicing unless they saw a sign that it needed it (visual and pressure checks). Guy I was working with said they routinely get as much as 60K on their personal shocks before seeing sings of service needed...and they run those shocks in conditions that build up a lot more heat than I do.

 

[D Fresh]

I asked them about servicing the other 3 while the truck was with them. They said they would inspect and check pressures - but since I'd had ICON service them around 20K ago and don't do high speed runs with this truck (I'm over 12K with camper and supplies on board) - they didn't recommend servicing unless they saw a sign that it needed it (visual and pressure checks). Guy I was working with said they routinely get as much as 60K on their personal shocks before seeing sings of service needed...and they run those shocks in conditions that build up a lot more heat than I do.

I would get my truck out of any shop recommending to repair/replace just one shock out of four as soon as possible and never return.

You never do just one corner when working with brakes or suspension.

 

[samayeam]

I would get my truck out of any shop recommending to repair/replace just one shock out of four as soon as possible and never return.

You never do just one corner when working with brakes or suspension.

So if you have caliper seize about 10K after doing pads on all 4 corners, you go ahead and replace or rebuild all 4 calipers independent of what condition the others are in and do pads and rotors again on all 4 corners?

Nothing is absolute as you say - unless it is for your vehicle only. I trust dudes who rebuild these things for a living and use them for play on a regular basis than some guy spouting absolutes on the internet that has never serviced a rebuildable suspension component.

 

[D Fresh]

So if you have caliper seize about 10K after doing pads on all 4 corners, you go ahead and replace or rebuild all 4 calipers independent of what condition the others are in?

No, you replace the two on the offending "axle" front or rear.

Brakes and suspension work is always done in pairs by anybody who knows what they're doing.

 

[samayeam]

No, you replace the two on the offending "axle" front or rear.

Brakes and suspension work is always done in pairs by anybody who knows what they're doing.

And you are clearly so omniscient that you are the purveyor of absolute truths and know best even when you've never done the job or understand all the specifics of the case. Reminds me of consultants I had to work with at one point.

Keep on rocking it - it clearly works for you.

 

[D Fresh]

And you are clearly so omniscient that you are the purveyor of absolute truths and know best even when you've never done the job or understand all the specifics of the case. Reminds me of consultants I had to work with at one point.

Keep on rocking it - it clearly works for you.

It's literally the collective knowledge gained by mechanics over more than a century.

No mechanic worth his salt would ever do brakes or suspension on just one corner unless it was an extreme emergency, get it moving type situation.


You don't need to take my word for it.

https://www.monroe.com/en-eu/blog/a...orbers be,are in equivalent working condition.

Any time a shock absorber needs to be replaced, its companion across the same axle (front or rear) must also be replaced to ensure that at least both shocks are in equivalent working condition.

https://vatire.com/car-maintenance-tips/when-to-replace-shocks-and-struts/

Shocks and struts should always be replaced in pairs (front axle or rear axle), and it’s even better to replace the shocks/struts on all four wheels at one time.

You sound like a guy who would need a consultant to fuel his vehicle.

 

[samayeam]

It's literally the collective knowledge gained by mechanics over more than a century.

No mechanic worth his salt would ever do brakes or suspension on just one corner unless it was an extreme emergency, get it moving type situation.


You don't need to take my word for it.

https://www.monroe.com/en-eu/blog/always-install-new-shocks-in-pairs.html#:~:text=Why should shock absorbers be,are in equivalent working condition.



https://vatire.com/car-maintenance-tips/when-to-replace-shocks-and-struts/



You sound like a guy who would need a consultant to fuel his vehicle.

Dude, if you can get over your high and mighty self self and we just happened to talk in a parking lot comparing rigs - I bet we could get along without trying to insult each other. What facts do you have to say that I can't even fuel my own vehicle? You have no idea of who I am or what expereinces I have, let alone my professional credentials and experiences. Yet you are somehow better. Thanks for the insult guy.

Your references are for throw away shocks - shocks that are for the mass consumer market.

Your references are not for high performance oriented shocks in which evaluation tools are available to diagnose/assess the health of a shock that aren't there with those disposable shocks. How many ASE certified mechanics have ever overhauled a fox shock? They do the mas consumer throw away ones and that is where the basis is formed for those recommendations. I'd agree with that guidance for throw away shocks on throw away sedans that those owner/operators see as basic transportation and not much more.

Shocks that are custom valved and designed to be re-buildable; not necessarily.

How about you call ICON, King, or Fox to ask their much more informed opinion? Oh, you won't because you know better and live in a world of absolutes instead of "it depends." You also wouldn't have the context to ask the question since you don't own and don't know the conditions of my shocks the shop looked at let alone what goes into both the design, operations, and maintenance thereof. Either way, mighty fine and safe world to live in. No problem with that. Espousing to know more than those that do the job, I do have a problem with.

And lets be clear: your corner mechanic, dealership mechanic, etc. is unlikely to be trained in servicing high performance re-buildable shocks. They surely have no say on design characteristics and considerations of high performance shocks. Nevertheless, their word is gospel. Can I get an "amen?"

Unlike you, I was trying to share actual and professional experience with non disposable shocks so that others that own similar may take into consideration for their own use should they choose to consider it.

Maybe the mods can shut us down before we get to slinging too many more insults of techincial penis credentials. Comments like yours make me dislike internet forums (this one too) more and more....right up there with ranger pride. You may see that as beneficial as you may prefer your echo chamber. I obviously do not. Toodles big guy.

 

[D Fresh]

Dude, if you can get over your high and mighty self self and we just happened to talk in a parking lot comparing rigs - I bet we could get along without trying to insult each other. What facts do you have to say that I can't even fuel my own vehicle? You have no idea of who I am or what expereinces I have, let alone my professional credentials and experiences. Yet you are somehow better. Thanks for the insult guy.

Your references are for throw away shocks - shocks that are for the mass consumer market.

Your references are not for high performance oriented shocks in which evaluation tools are available to diagnose/assess the health of a shock that aren't there with those disposable shocks. How many ASE certified mechanics have ever overhauled a fox shock? They do the mas consumer throw away ones and that is where the basis is formed for those recommendations. I'd agree with that guidance for throw away shocks on throw away sedans that those owner/operators see as basic transportation and not much more.

Shocks that are custom valved and designed to be re-buildable; not necessarily.

How about you call ICON, King, or Fox to ask their much more informed opinion? Oh, you won't because you know better and live in a world of absolutes instead of "it depends." You also wouldn't have the context to ask the question since you don't own and don't know the conditions of my shocks the shop looked at let alone what goes into both the design, operations, and maintenance thereof. Either way, mighty fine and safe world to live in. No problem with that. Espousing to know more than those that do the job, I do have a problem with.

And lets be clear: your corner mechanic, dealership mechanic, etc. is unlikely to be trained in servicing high performance re-buildable shocks. They surely have no say on design characteristics and considerations of high performance shocks. Nevertheless, their word is gospel. Can I get an "amen?"

Unlike you, I was trying to share actual and professional experience with non disposable shocks so that others that own similar may take into consideration for their own use should they choose to consider it.

Maybe the mods can shut us down before we get to slinging too many more insults of techincial penis credentials. Comments like yours make me dislike internet forums (this one too) more and more....right up there with ranger pride. You may see that as beneficial as you may prefer your echo chamber. I obviously do not. Toodles big guy.

Without uninstalling the other side and running it in a shock dyno there is no way for your shop to verify the health of the other side.

If they didn't uninstal and run the other side on a dyno they have no way of verifying the health of the other side. If going through the trouble of of uninstalling both sides to rebuild one and test the other a smart shop would rebuild BOTH and dyno BOTH to ensure their work before re-installing.

Unless of course the shop was trying to work within YOUR budget constraints.

Absolute best case rebuilding just one corner you now have one shock on a completely different rebuild schedule than the rest of your suspension.

Why are you so upset?

 

[samayeam]

I'm not upset. That is part of the problem with forums - conversations lack a lot of context and often one forms an opinion of something with their own context to color the situation as they see fit. Perhaps you are upset and it is your context allowing that to color the conversation from your perspective and assume that I am upset?

I am annoyed - which is different. Nothing is absolute - but you insist it is even when you have no first hand experience in a matter. That comes across as off putting to not just me, but others as well.

Have you ever used a shock dyno? I have. At least in bike suspension work - it is most often used to verify a proper rebuild, help equalize pressures across positive and negative chambers as part of that verification and before returning it to the customer at their preferred or recommended settings, and verify expected behavior when attempting to change the valve stack to achieve the desired performance characteristics the customer is expecting when attempting to custom valve.

In my opinion and experience - a service center is unlikely to dyno a shock for diagnostics. Maybe to establish baseline behavior prior to a planned rebuild with valving changes. Chances are - there are other ways to diagnose a shock that are much easier. Check for visible leaks and scoring on the shafts. Check air pressure. Does oil come shooting out when you hook up to check pressure? Has there been noise from that corner of the suspension? Is there uneven tire wear? What is the service history of those shocks? All things that you seem to say are of no value - just rebuild or replace indpedent of those condtions. Have you ever studied reliability and survivabiilty engineering? Have you had to make decisions betwen time based and condition based mainenance that have national security implications? I have. But damn it - google is more qualifed. Oh the blasphemy.

The shop you suggested I run away from happens to be an ICON authorized service center. They did the initial service around 18k miles on the shocks when I bought the rig used. ICON did the next service. These guys all have similar shocks on their personal rigs and run them hard. They used their experience, training, and judgement along with aforementioned pressure and visual checks combined with an understanding of the service history of those shocks to reach an informed opinion. An opinion I hold in much higher regard than yours. Yet you know more than them with your internet sleuthing and persist in slinging mud when someone challenges your comparatively less informed assumptions....and spout it to everyone that will read as if it is gosphel. I find that annoying and offputing.

So, lets see. There is more context you aren't grasping that does not support your absolutism.

Do you understand the difference between high and low speed compression damping? Do you understand the methods in which a shock is designed to have separate high and low speed compression damping circuits and even separate high and low speed rebound dampening curves on high end shocks? Do you understand how air(nitrogen) and oil interact (or should not interact) in high performance shocks? Have you ever even checked pressures on a shock? It seems as those are possibly no for you.

I personally haven't dove into that for automotive shocks because I don't have the equipment. But I have for bike shocks.

My particular truck shock that was bad exhibited behavior at cold temps as if it had no high speed compression dampening. Almost immediately after being serviced by ICON. I sent them in to ICON specifically becasue just a few winter drives in Maine caused serious corrosion and pitting on the shafts. I wanted to get ahead of that chewing up seals and the inevetiable loss of oil and charge pressure. There were zero performance issues with those shocks at the time.

Following re-install post ICON rebuild with the high speed compression clunk in cold temps, I had a well known off road shop in SoCal take a look before I headed back to Maine. They couldn't find anything wrong at the time and said the only way to really know is to pull the shock and open it up. I talked with ICON and they said it is conceivable that it could have been re-assembled improperly and causing the conditions that I described to them. I didn't think at the time to ask if they dyno after rebuild - would have been good information to know at the time. So thanks for brining that back to my attention. Something I'll surely ask next time. Based on the history of my shocks, I speculate that it wasn't done. Or if it was done, it was low speed compression test only.

With bikes - I've only used a hand dyno and it can be tough to get enough leverage to simulate real world high speed compression that those see. Regardless - there is a counterpoint to your argument right there. Every time you open up something that shows no signs of needing service - you run the risk of causing damage and/or incorrect reassembly. Especially on things with lots of tiny pieces that have specific orientations and placement that one could easily mess up as high end shocks do.

To the OP - I apologize for the offshoot. Thanks for posting as I find what you are posting to be truly fascinating. I'm bowing out so that D-Fresh can have the last word in this sad diatribe.

 

[Trigganometry]

Just like shocks, for every action there is a reaction. This thread is a textbook example of that.

 

[D Fresh]

I'm not upset. That is part of the problem with forums - conversations lack a lot of context and often one forms an opinion of something with their own context to color the situation as they see fit. Perhaps you are upset and it is your context allowing that to color the conversation from your perspective and assume that I am upset?

Wait a minute now. Did you just "I'm rubber, you're glue..." me?

I am annoyed - which is different. Nothing is absolute - but you insist it is even when you have no first hand experience in a matter. That comes across as off putting to not just me, but others as well.

Judging by the dissertation you wrote. You are much more than annoyed.

Unhinged might fit.

I have no first hand knowledge in what? How did you gain your insight into my first hand knowledge? What makes you think I care about others being put off by my opinion?

Have you ever used a shock dyno? I have. At least in bike suspension work - it is most often used to verify a proper rebuild, help equalize pressures across positive and negative chambers as part of that verification and before returning it to the customer at their preferred or recommended settings, and verify expected behavior when attempting to change the valve stack to achieve the desired performance characteristics the customer is expecting when attempting to custom valve.

In my opinion and experience - a service center is unlikely to dyno a shock for diagnostics. Maybe to establish baseline behavior prior to a planned rebuild with valving changes. Chances are - there are other ways to diagnose a shock that are much easier. Check for visible leaks and scoring on the shafts. Check air pressure. Does oil come shooting out when you hook up to check pressure? Has there been noise from that corner of the suspension? Is there uneven tire wear? What is the service history of those shocks? All things that you seem to say are of no value - just rebuild or replace indpedent of those condtions. Have you ever studied reliability and survivabiilty engineering? Have you had to make decisions betwen time based and condition based mainenance that have national security implications? I have. But damn it - google is more qualifed. Oh the blasphemy.

The shop you suggested I run away from happens to be an ICON authorized service center. They did the initial service around 18k miles on the shocks when I bought the rig used. ICON did the next service. These guys all have similar shocks on their personal rigs and run them hard. They used their experience, training, and judgement along with aforementioned pressure and visual checks combined with an understanding of the service history of those shocks to reach an informed opinion. An opinion I hold in much higher regard than yours. Yet you know more than them with your internet sleuthing and persist in slinging mud when someone challenges your comparatively less informed assumptions....and spout it to everyone that will read as if it is gosphel. I find that annoying and offputing.

So, lets see. There is more context you aren't grasping that does not support your absolutism.

Do you understand the difference between high and low speed compression damping? Do you understand the methods in which a shock is designed to have separate high and low speed compression damping circuits and even separate high and low speed rebound dampening curves on high end shocks? Do you understand how air(nitrogen) and oil interact (or should not interact) in high performance shocks? Have you ever even checked pressures on a shock? It seems as those are possibly no for you.

I personally haven't dove into that for automotive shocks because I don't have the equipment. But I have for bike shocks.

My particular truck shock that was bad exhibited behavior at cold temps as if it had no high speed compression dampening. Almost immediately after being serviced by ICON. I sent them in to ICON specifically becasue just a few winter drives in Maine caused serious corrosion and pitting on the shafts. I wanted to get ahead of that chewing up seals and the inevetiable loss of oil and charge pressure. There were zero performance issues with those shocks at the time.

Following re-install post ICON rebuild with the high speed compression clunk in cold temps, I had a well known off road shop in SoCal take a look before I headed back to Maine. They couldn't find anything wrong at the time and said the only way to really know is to pull the shock and open it up. I talked with ICON and they said it is conceivable that it could have been re-assembled improperly and causing the conditions that I described to them. I didn't think at the time to ask if they dyno after rebuild - would have been good information to know at the time. So thanks for brining that back to my attention. Something I'll surely ask next time. Based on the history of my shocks, I speculate that it wasn't done. Or if it was done, it was low speed compression test only.

With bikes - I've only used a hand dyno and it can be tough to get enough leverage to simulate real world high speed compression that those see. Regardless - there is a counterpoint to your argument right there. Every time you open up something that shows no signs of needing service - you run the risk of causing damage and/or incorrect reassembly. Especially on things with lots of tiny pieces that have specific orientations and placement that one could easily mess up as high end shocks do.

To the OP - I apologize for the offshoot. Thanks for posting as I find what you are posting to be truly fascinating. I'm bowing out so that D-Fresh can have the last word in this sad diatribe.

Christ dude.

I don't make decisions based on national security or any thing super cool like you.

But I did spend the better part of my youth and young adulthood racing with SCCA, WKA and other organizations. As such I've built and maintained my fair share of AUTOMOTIVE suspensions for street, track, and offroad and spent plenty of time yucking it up with suspension pros while WE were working on my vehicles.

Your shop and you were doubly foolish in that you rebuilt only one corner after a FAILED rebuild from the manufacturer. A logical person would have rebuilt them all out of an abundance of caution. I get it that your budget required you to make a tough decision between time based and condition based maintenance. But sometimes you gotta pay to play.

I don't know much about bicycles. But I do know that they only have two wheels. Automobiles, the ones we're talking about anyways, have four. And when pushing an automobile to it's limits, predictability of the vehicle's reactions to surface conditions is required.

In the future I'd suggest not getting so butthurt over some random dude on the internet's opinion. Maybe if the opinions of others offend you so much you should stop sharing yours?

 

[tm1506]

Wow! Is this pissing contest over yet?

 

[JoeDop1]

Unfortunately, I installed the Fox 2.0 leveling kit last year. I've only got about 10K miles since then. When I bought them, I never knew i would have to take them off for "servicing". Crap!
So, what is the consensus? Do we really have to get them serviced every 15k if we do some light/medium off road driving or do we wait?
It's getting warm here in SoCal and I'm itching to get out into the wilderness.

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