Risk with Tuners?

[NOVA_Ranger]

All that's a great theory, as long as you're willing to eat the cost if you break the engine. What sticks in my craw is people who are sure they know more than the manufacturer, then try to hide their tune and demand repairs under warranty. You're right that there's wiggle room--Ford designed that in to limit how much they'd need to spend down the road on warranty service...

You have to be willing to accept some risk and I agree that it is shady to try and cover tracks to get damages covered under warranty. When I tune my truck it will likely be a '91 octane tune' and I'll run 93 octane fuel, while also keeping my eyes and ears peeled for detonation...especially detonation that is bad enough to burn through a piston.

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[NOVA_Ranger]

Another consideration is tuning an engine and then driving the vehicle in a somewhat "normal" manner. If you beat the snot out of any vehicle 24/7, tuned or not, you're probably going to have problems at some point.

 

[VAMike]

You have to be willing to accept some risk and I agree that it is shady to try and cover tracks to get damages covered under warranty. When I tune my truck it will likely be a '91 octane tune' and I'll run 93 octane fuel, while also keeping my eyes and ears peeled for detonation...especially detonation that is bad enough to burn through a piston.

Also keep in mind what P. A. Schilke wrote above about matching power delivery to different parts of the powertrain. I dunno, it just seems weird to me to assume that a manufacturer is leaving a bunch of power on the table that a dude on a laptop can find when a team of engineers couldn't by just flipping a couple of switches in software with no downside. I guess I took to heart the advice I got when I was younger that you can't get something for nothing (TANSTAAFL!)

 

[P. A. Schilke]

We are on the same page. You aren't the only company man on here

I was referring to the engine-specific fatigue tests, which increase in length based on power/weight ratio (not just a blanket 150k mi.) So trucks have a more grueling standard.

Bottom line... a tune from Joe's dyno shop is risky business...

We are on the same page. You aren't the only company man on here

I was referring to the engine-specific fatigue tests, which increase in length based on power/weight ratio (not just a blanket 150k mi.) So trucks have a more grueling standard.

Bottom line... a tune from Joe's dyno shop is risky business...

Cool! Thanks for the backup...hate to hear of tuning gone wrong. still at Ford? been Gone 16 years now..

Phil

 

[tivct]

Cool! Thanks for the backup...hate to hear of tuning gone wrong. still at Ford? been Gone 16 years now..

Phil

Still at Ford... very close to this particular topic. I try to shed some light on here, or at least as much as I can without violating the NDA. I don't like seeing our customers confused about what the product is and/or can do.

That said... I made my own calibration (tune) for my RS, but I accept the risk. Do as I say, not as I do!

 

[P. A. Schilke]

Hi...

Headed up Ranger Vehicle Engineering last 5 years of my 30 year career. still try to be an ambassador for the company. I worry a lot with the vehicle dynamics of these lift kits...lots of junk out there...horrified at SEMA ...so much angle iron with ACE Hardwaregrade fasteners.

Best,
Phil

 

[NOVA_Ranger]

Also keep in mind what P. A. Schilke wrote above about matching power delivery to different parts of the powertrain. I dunno, it just seems weird to me to assume that a manufacturer is leaving a bunch of power on the table that a dude on a laptop can find when a team of engineers couldn't by just flipping a couple of switches in software with no downside. I guess I took to heart the advice I got when I was younger that you can't get something for nothing (TANSTAAFL!)

I guess we'll see...

 

[Johnpenn]

Still at Ford... very close to this particular topic. I try to shed some light on here, or at least as much as I can without violating the NDA. I don't like seeing our customers confused about what the product is and/or can do.

That said... I made my own calibration (tune) for my RS, but I accept the risk. Do as I say, not as I do!

My Ranger is the first vehicle I have owned with a turbo. I'm not interested in a tune but the turbo lag sort of irritates me in slow-down/speed-up traffic. The new Ranger is great from a stop. What do you Ford Engineering guys think about the GO FAST BITS diverter valve? Any negative effects on the engine? My old ranger has 140K miles on the engine and trans. I want my new Ranger to last.

 

[CoastieN70]

OK Sports fans! If you tune to race and it breaks, you own that. If you tune to get a little more out of a detuned engine as most of us do, I seriously doubt you will find yourself on the short stick.
I had two choices when I tuned my Explorer Sport, well actually several; Number 1 was FORD, that's right team FORD! Buy their bigger throttle body and their software and you could make BIG power from your 3.5 L Twin Turbo ECOBOST (Stage2) or just buy the software and make semi big power (Stage1) and FORD would warrant it. Or buy from a 3rd party company that works with FORD developing their tunes (Livernois and a couple others) that don't take the engines to the absolute limit but provide semi-big power/Q gains. I chose option 2 and was very happy. My EX Sport could smoke a Dodge Hemi in a blink of an eye, when I was so inclined, but it also gave me AWESOME passing power when I needed it. Took it back to "Stock" when I traded it.

I went with Livernois for my Ranger and I am happy! Am I the least bit concerned I will hurt this engine? Hell no, I am not racing, it isn't tuned to the absolute limit of its capability but it IS nicely tuned to about Mustang ECOBOST power.

And as an aside, I would be SHOCKED if FORD doesn't come out with their own package to boost Ranger performance like the EX Sport and the rest of the 3.5L ECOBOST platforms...

Oh and if you go to Bubba's or Billy Bob's speed shop and have a guy named Calvin or Darnel whip out a lap top and rewrite your ECM Software while spinning your wheels on a dyno, that's on you too...

 

[Rinn69]

I REALLY hope Ford comes out with a warrantied tune !!!

 

[Doc]

My Ranger is the first vehicle I have owned with a turbo. I'm not interested in a tune but the turbo lag sort of irritates me in slow-down/speed-up traffic. The new Ranger is great from a stop. What do you Ford guys think about the GO FAST BITS diverter valve? Any negative effects on the engine? My old ranger has 140K miles on the engine and trans. I want my new Ranger to last.

My tune on drive mode side is mild and eliminates turbo lag..the power tune is in the sport mode side and holds the rpms longer.

 

[tivct]

My Ranger is the first vehicle I have owned with a turbo. I'm not interested in a tune but the turbo lag sort of irritates me in slow-down/speed-up traffic. The new Ranger is great from a stop. What do you Ford Engineering guys think about the GO FAST BITS diverter valve? Any negative effects on the engine? My old ranger has 140K miles on the engine and trans. I want my new Ranger to last.

It won't really help what you're looking to improve. The lag you're feeling is, at least in part, intentional (or rather a byproduct of certain protection actions.)

Boosted DI engines are very prone to pre-ignition at low speeds & high loads. Ford limits boost in the lower rev range to avoid PI events. We have a specific combustion metric that we use as a do-not-cross line. I don't think it's public knowledge so I won't share what it is... but this is the low-hanging fruit that the tuners go after. They just eliminate those PI limits and boom... 90 more ft-lbs and better turbo response. We have LOTS of data (and warranty claims from the early days) suggesting this is a bad idea. Especially on lower octanes. I can guarantee you these tuners don't have the $100k in-cylinder combustion analyzers that we have to monitor these combustion metrics.

The 10 speed likes to keep engine speed low for fuel economy. The trade off is you're hanging out in PI-prone areas if you want quick boost. Sport mode (shift to S) can help if you know you'll be doing some deep pedal driving.

 

[RedlandRanger]

It won't really help what you're looking to improve. The lag you're feeling is, at least in part, intentional (or rather a byproduct of certain protection actions.)

Boosted DI engines are very prone to pre-ignition at low speeds & high loads. Ford limits boost in the lower rev range to avoid PI events. We have a specific combustion metric that we use as a do-not-cross line. I don't think it's public knowledge so I won't share what it is... but this is the low-hanging fruit that the tuners go after. They just eliminate those PI limits and boom... 90 more ft-lbs and better turbo response. We have LOTS of data (and warranty claims from the early days) suggesting this is a bad idea. Especially on lower octanes. I can guarantee you these tuners don't have the $100k in-cylinder combustion analyzers that we have to monitor these combustion metrics.

The 10 speed likes to keep engine speed low for fuel economy. The trade off is you're hanging out in PI-prone areas if you want quick boost. Sport mode (shift to S) can help if you know you'll be doing some deep pedal driving.

This is great info on why Ford "left some on the table" - as many have said, there is a reason for it.

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Fordguy]

That’s right! X2 If you put in a tune..you take the chance of voiding your warranty. The tuner company won’t warrant it either. If I blow my engine, I will go to a 2.0 built block like what Panda builds...
Regards

Exactly! I am not against tunes at all. I have used many, but at the end of the day, tune company's are in the business of selling tunes, they will tell you what ever they feel necessary to sell there product. What they wont tell you is how many people have voided warranties because of it. It not just Ford either, in fact, of the six dealerships I run, Ford is the most forgiving to the customer.

 

[THLONE]

Hi...

Headed up Ranger Vehicle Engineering last 5 years of my 30 year career. still try to be an ambassador for the company. I worry a lot with the vehicle dynamics of these lift kits...lots of junk out there...horrified at SEMA ...so much angle iron with ACE Hardwaregrade fasteners.

Best,
Phil

Yes, Ford tries to create a happy medium between reliability and performance. So, there is some extra performance to be found in any stock car. But, it comes with a price. There aint no free lunch boys. So, dont complain to Ford if your truck has issues with a untested for longevity "tune" from these eager to get your money "tuners". I am amazed at the numbers of people who buy a new truck and want to make a race car out of it.

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