Risk with Tuners?

VAMike

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Yes, they (Ford) have several mods and tunes for the 2.3 EcoBoost mustangs.
And I'd assume a big chunk of the cost offsets any warranty liabilities.
 

tivct

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And I'd assume a big chunk of the cost offsets any warranty liabilities.
This is the gist of it. The "Ford backed" mods remove a bit of the safety factor (that's there to make sure whatever customer in whatever climate never has issues.) They accept a bit of extra warranty liability and charge for it.
 

Johnpenn

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It won't really help what you're looking to improve. The lag you're feeling is, at least in part, intentional (or rather a byproduct of certain protection actions.)

Boosted DI engines are very prone to pre-ignition at low speeds & high loads. Ford limits boost in the lower rev range to avoid PI events. We have a specific combustion metric that we use as a do-not-cross line. I don't think it's public knowledge so I won't share what it is... but this is the low-hanging fruit that the tuners go after. They just eliminate those PI limits and boom... 90 more ft-lbs and better turbo response. We have LOTS of data (and warranty claims from the early days) suggesting this is a bad idea. Especially on lower octanes. I can guarantee you these tuners don't have the $100k in-cylinder combustion analyzers that we have to monitor these combustion metrics.

The 10 speed likes to keep engine speed low for fuel economy. The trade off is you're hanging out in PI-prone areas if you want quick boost. Sport mode (shift to S) can help if you know you'll be doing some deep pedal driving.
Thanks for the info. Does the engine adjust the PI limits with higher octane fuel and have an impact on lag during acceleration from lower RPMs? I have used sport mode a bit but didn't really pay attention to this aspect of the performance characteristics. Will check it out to see if I like it better in sport mode.
 

tivct

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Thanks for the info. Does the engine adjust the PI limits with higher octane fuel and have an impact on lag during acceleration from lower RPMs? I have used sport mode a bit but didn't really pay attention to this aspect of the performance characteristics. Will check it out to see if I like it better in sport mode.
Yes, PI limits are raised on higher octanes. You'll need to spend some time in boost (a few longer medium-pedal accelerations) for the algorithm to learn & latch the new octane.
 


Johnpenn

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Yes, PI limits are raised on higher octanes. You'll need to spend some time in boost (a few longer medium-pedal accelerations) for the algorithm to learn & latch the new octane.
Spending a little more on fuel makes more sense to me than large amounts of cash on tuners or low impact performance parts unless I was racing my truck and tenths of a second count. Will try some higher octane gas. Thanks.
 

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Yes, they (Ford) have several mods and tunes for the 2.3 EcoBoost mustangs.
Regards
Rinn,
Ford performance tune ( for the mustang )adds 100 hp @6000 rpms......and brings the torque up to 390 ft.lbs

That’s more than my aftermarket tune.
Regards
 
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NOVA_Ranger

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The best part about these aftermarket tunes is they're optional and you don't have to buy one if you feel the benefits fail to justify the risk. After browsing the inter-webs a little bit it looks like most of those falling victim to "eco-boom" are running pretty aggressive tunes, installing a bunch of bolt-on mods (aftermarket turbos, meth injection, etc), and likely beating their cars like they owe them money. You don't do all that work and not drive the hell out of it, haha. Probably ordering my LMS tune this weekend...91 octane and I'll run 93 octane fuel as I feel the tune out and do some data-logging. No planned trips to the drag strip or anything, but I am looking forward to their transmission adjustments based on past experiences.
 

Doc

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The best part about these aftermarket tunes is they're optional and you don't have to buy one if you feel the benefits fail to justify the risk. After browsing the inter-webs a little bit it looks like most of those falling victim to "eco-boom" are running pretty aggressive tunes, installing a bunch of bolt-on mods (aftermarket turbos, meth injection, etc), and likely beating their cars like they owe them money. You don't do all that work and not drive the hell out of it, haha. Probably ordering my LMS tune this weekend...91 octane and I'll run 93 octane fuel as I feel the tune out and do some data-logging. No planned trips to the drag strip or anything, but I am looking forward to their transmission adjustments based on past experiences.
You will love it! ( no bolt ons necessary)
Regards
 

P. A. Schilke

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It won't really help what you're looking to improve. The lag you're feeling is, at least in part, intentional (or rather a byproduct of certain protection actions.)

Boosted DI engines are very prone to pre-ignition at low speeds & high loads. Ford limits boost in the lower rev range to avoid PI events. We have a specific combustion metric that we use as a do-not-cross line. I don't think it's public knowledge so I won't share what it is... but this is the low-hanging fruit that the tuners go after. They just eliminate those PI limits and boom... 90 more ft-lbs and better turbo response. We have LOTS of data (and warranty claims from the early days) suggesting this is a bad idea. Especially on lower octanes. I can guarantee you these tuners don't have the $100k in-cylinder combustion analyzers that we have to monitor these combustion metrics.

The 10 speed likes to keep engine speed low for fuel economy. The trade off is you're hanging out in PI-prone areas if you want quick boost. Sport mode (shift to S) can help if you know you'll be doing some deep pedal driving.
Well said! Thanks

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co Retired
 

CoastieN70

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The best part about these aftermarket tunes is they're optional and you don't have to buy one if you feel the benefits fail to justify the risk. After browsing the inter-webs a little bit it looks like most of those falling victim to "eco-boom" are running pretty aggressive tunes, installing a bunch of bolt-on mods (aftermarket turbos, meth injection, etc), and likely beating their cars like they owe them money. You don't do all that work and not drive the hell out of it, haha. Probably ordering my LMS tune this weekend...91 octane and I'll run 93 octane fuel as I feel the tune out and do some data-logging. No planned trips to the drag strip or anything, but I am looking forward to their transmission adjustments based on past experiences.
The LMS tune is awesome. I'm just a week into the install and I am digging it. Didn't install to race but I do like having the extra power when I want it. I do believe you will like it. BTW there are two tunes 87-89 and 91-93. I installed the later...
 

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The LMS tune is awesome. I'm just a week into the install and I am digging it. Didn't install to race but I do like having the extra power when I want it. I do believe you will like it. BTW there are two tunes 87-89 and 91-93. I installed the later...
How would you describe changes to the transmission and shifting? It was night and day on my SHO, loved it and hoping for the same this time.
 
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Bubbabiker

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Personally I would only stick with tuners that retains the OAR. Won't be as aggressive power wise compared to other tuners with OAR disabled but does give extra protection if you get bad fuel, mismatched fuel or when premium isn't available.
 
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CoastieN70

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How would you describe changes to the transmission and shifting? It was night and day on my SHO, loved it and hoping for the same this time.
Night and Day... :) Just like it was on my EX Sport. As usual hard/rough until the ECM learns your driving habits, gets smoother every day. You DO get 2nd gear without having to "Select Shift" but if you keep you foot "light" as in traffic it still skips 2nd gear but with just a "Little Extra" foot 2nd gear kicks and the launch from it is crisp.
 

1medic

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It won't really help what you're looking to improve. The lag you're feeling is, at least in part, intentional (or rather a byproduct of certain protection actions.)

Boosted DI engines are very prone to pre-ignition at low speeds & high loads. Ford limits boost in the lower rev range to avoid PI events. We have a specific combustion metric that we use as a do-not-cross line. I don't think it's public knowledge so I won't share what it is... but this is the low-hanging fruit that the tuners go after. They just eliminate those PI limits and boom... 90 more ft-lbs and better turbo response. We have LOTS of data (and warranty claims from the early days) suggesting this is a bad idea. Especially on lower octanes. I can guarantee you these tuners don't have the $100k in-cylinder combustion analyzers that we have to monitor these combustion metrics.

The 10 speed likes to keep engine speed low for fuel economy. The trade off is you're hanging out in PI-prone areas if you want quick boost. Sport mode (shift to S) can help if you know you'll be doing some deep pedal driving.
So educate me......
Based on what you said wouldn't you see an appreciable increase in hp and tq at lower RPMs with a performance tune? Look at the 87 octane tunes;
https://5startuning.com/got-a-2019-ranger-2-3l-ecoboost/#iLightbox[image_carousel_1]/1
I'm not seeing big changes till 3000 + RPMs. So I'm not seeing "low engine speeds & high loads".
In addition based on what you said, what is the difference with the other 2.3L EB's in the other platforms that have more hp and tq?
I'm asking because I'm trying to understand your post and how it may or may not relate to the current EB's that can be tuned safely by a reputable tuner and used / driven correctly (ie not constant high engine loads all the time). Thanks
Sponsored

 
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