Risk with Tuners?

[Fordguy]

Ya pay the price and ya take ya chances. If you knew the hours involved and the dollars invested in Ford proving out a change in "tune" you might leave well enough alone.

These "tuners" can't afford the time and money to prove every aspect we at Ford must validate.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co Retired

Agree. Everyone always says its never a problem and you will be fine. Tell that to the three Focus RS that smoked pistons that the customers ultimately paid for after losing their fight. It is funny how a manufacture spends millions on durability testing and some guy comes along with a laptop and knows more. If Ford our another manufacture could squeak another 75 hp without issues, do people believe they wouldn't?

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[NOVA_Ranger]

I'd assume the RS doesn't leave a whole lot of meat on the bone from the factory and attempts to tune it push the safe limits. Plenty of wiggle room when it comes to the Ranger, as evident by the engine's output in other platforms.

Agree. Everyone always says its never a problem and you will be fine. Tell that to the three Focus RS that smoked pistons that the customers ultimately paid for after losing their fight. It is funny how a manufacture spends millions on durability testing and some guy comes along with a laptop and knows more. If Ford our another manufacture could squeak another 75 hp without issues, do people believe they wouldn't?

 

[VAMike]

I'd assume the RS doesn't leave a whole lot of meat on the bone from the factory and attempts to tune it push the safe limits. Plenty of wiggle room when it comes to the Ranger, as evident by the engine's output in other platforms.

All that's a great theory, as long as you're willing to eat the cost if you break the engine. What sticks in my craw is people who are sure they know more than the manufacturer, then try to hide their tune and demand repairs under warranty. You're right that there's wiggle room--Ford designed that in to limit how much they'd need to spend down the road on warranty service...

 

[tivct]

Ranger's 2.3L is "de-tuned" to pass Ford's tougher durability requirements for truck engines. They are more stressful fatigue tests (due to expected duty cycles while towing/hauling... a truck spends much more time at peak torque or power vs. something like an RS.) Think climbing up to Eisenhower tunnel at 70mph with a 7500lb trailer.

If you tune your truck you're writing off Ford's durability assessment. Sure it'll make good power on the dyno under ideal conditions on a nice tank of 93, but don't expect them to foot the bill when something goes wrong otherwise.

 

[Doc]

All that's a great theory, as long as you're willing to eat the cost if you break the engine. What sticks in my craw is people who are sure they know more than the manufacturer, then try to hide their tune and demand repairs under warranty. You're right that there's wiggle room--Ford designed that in to limit how much they'd need to spend down the road on warranty service...

You can’t “hide”a tune....It’s all recorded in the ECU
Regards

 

[P. A. Schilke]

Ranger's 2.3L is "de-tuned" to pass Ford's tougher durability requirements for truck engines. They are more stressful fatigue tests (due to expected duty cycles while towing/hauling... a truck spends much more time at peak torque or power vs. something like an RS.) Think climbing up to Eisenhower tunnel at 70mph with a 7500lb trailer.

If you tune your truck you're writing off Ford's durability assessment. Sure it'll make good power on the dyno under ideal conditions on a nice tank of 93, but don't expect them to foot the bill when something goes wrong otherwise.

Hi Folks

Ford durability proveout is for 150K miles for a 90 percentile customer, e.g., a huge mining outfit, or servicer of oil rigs. If you tune out the "wiggle room " 150K miles might not be there. Also, the truck engine may have different parts inside e.g. cam timing. Different torque curve, maybe. The point was made about us cranking out more UP if we could is also what we call powertrain matching. Tune incorrectly and maybe fail 4th gear in the transmission for example.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co Retired

 

[Doc]

Ranger's 2.3L is "de-tuned" to pass Ford's tougher durability requirements for truck engines. They are more stressful fatigue tests (due to expected duty cycles while towing/hauling... a truck spends much more time at peak torque or power vs. something like an RS.) Think climbing up to Eisenhower tunnel at 70mph with a 7500lb trailer.

If you tune your truck you're writing off Ford's durability assessment. Sure it'll make good power on the dyno under ideal conditions on a nice tank of 93, but don't expect them to foot the bill when something goes wrong otherwise.

That’s correct..mine is tuned for ET bracket WOT racing only, not a daily driver, I wouldn’t expect ford to honor my engine and drivetrain warranty. Especially since my dealer knows I race it.
Regards

 

[tivct]

You can’t “hide”a tune....It’s all recorded in the ECU
Regards

Correct. The average dealer tech may not find it, but if Ford sends someone who knows what they're doing, you're hosed.

 

[joeb427]

Correct. The average dealer tech may not find it, but if Ford sends someone who knows what they're doing, you're hosed.

Yep and with certain engine breakdowns, the Ford rep will search for evidence of a tune.

 

[Doc]

Yep and with certain engine breakdowns, the Ford rep will search for evidence of a tune.

10/4

 

[Doc]

Correct. The average dealer tech may not find it, but if Ford sends someone who knows what they're doing, you're hosed.

Yup, if you blow up an engine someone Will find the tune...
Regards

 

[tivct]

Hi Folks

Ford durability proveout is for 150K miles for a 90 percentile customer, e.g., a huge mining outfit, or servicer of oil rigs. If you tune out the "wiggle room " 150K miles might not be there. Also, the truck engine may have different parts inside e.g. cam timing. Different torque curve, maybe. The point was made about us cranking out more UP if we could is also what we call powertrain matching. Tune incorrectly and maybe fail 4th gear in the transmission for example.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co Retired

We are on the same page. You aren't the only company man on here

I was referring to the engine-specific fatigue tests, which increase in length based on power/weight ratio (not just a blanket 150k mi.) So trucks have a more grueling standard.

Bottom line... a tune from Joe's dyno shop is risky business...

 

[Fordguy]

You can’t “hide”a tune....It’s all recorded in the ECU
Regards[/QUOTE
I always laugh when people tell me that the factory or dealer can't tell the car had a tune....What a joke.

 

[VAMike]

You can’t “hide”a tune....It’s all recorded in the ECU
Regards

I did say "try"...you know the type, they break something then get really vocal about how terrible Ford is for not honoring the warranty, yada yada. Couldn't possibly be the fault of the tune, the tuner guy has done dozens of these and everyone says they're great.

Here's my test: if your tuner will warranty the engine, then it's fine.

 

[Doc]

That’s right! X2 If you put in a tune..you take the chance of voiding your warranty. The tuner company won’t warrant it either. If I blow my engine, I will go to a 2.0 built block like what Panda builds...
Regards

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