One Piece Driveshaft

[melficeapoll]

BTW, the typical Driveshaft measurement is 67". Yours may be a little off one way or the other.

I'm currently at stock height, but If i get my truck lowered, will the length of the DS change? Want to avoid ordering right now if it won't work when I'm lowered later.

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[Dr3wDrop]

I'm currently at stock height, but If i get my truck lowered, will the length of the DS change? Want to avoid ordering right now if it won't work when I'm lowered later.

I would wait to be safe. The length shouldn't change I wouldn't think but the angle would.

 

[Shawn at Tom Wood's]

I'm currently at stock height, but If i get my truck lowered, will the length of the DS change? Want to avoid ordering right now if it won't work when I'm lowered later.

The length won't really change. Not enough to matter at least. If you're interested in calculating the length change you can do that here https://4xshaft.com/blogs/general-tech-info-articles/driveshaft-length-after-lift. There is a calculator, which I made, at the bottom of the page. It's focused on length change after lifting a vehicle so you'll have to pretend you are going up, not down, but the amount of change should be almost identical.

 

[Tbalt14]

The length won't really change. Not enough to matter at least. If you're interested in calculating the length change you can do that here https://4xshaft.com/blogs/general-tech-info-articles/driveshaft-length-after-lift. There is a calculator, which I made, at the bottom of the page. It's focused on length change after lifting a vehicle so you'll have to pretend you are going up, not down, but the amount of change should be almost identical.

I think you would sell more shafts if it was made from aluminum instead of steel. That's what kept me from buying.

 

[Shawn at Tom Wood's]

I think you would sell more shafts if it was made from aluminum instead of steel. That's what kept me from buying.

It is impossible to do aluminum on these shafts. This is because the slip yoke has to be integrated into the drive shaft. the spline stub needs to be steel and the spline stub needs to weld to the tube. Obviously you can't weld a steel spline stub to an aluminum tube. If you look at aluminum shafts they are all what we call a "reverse slip" style shaft. This type of shaft uses a slip yoke at the end of the shaft. That slip yoke slides in and out the transmission or transfer case. Because that slip yoke is attached to the drive shaft via the u-joint coupling the slip yoke on the reverse slip style shaft can be, and is, steel. Because the Ranger uses a bolt on flange attachment at each end the slip yoke and spline must be integrated into the middle of the shaft so it has to be steel. Google image search "aluminum drive shaft" and you'll see what I mean about all of them being a different type of slip yoke.

Same story for carbon fiber. It isn't possible unless its a reverse slip drive shaft.

Steel is the only option for these shafts.

*EDIT* I think it is actually possible with carbon fiber. One would have to use a part like this, a weldable bonded sleeve, in the carbon tube, then weld a spline to that. We don't build carbon fiber shafts though. From what I know about carbon fiber shafts I'm estimating that a carbon fiber shaft would be around $2,500. That is, if you could get someone to make one for a Ranger.

 

[ctechbob]

Could always call the guys that built Steve Morris his shaft if you want something in carbon. I'm sure they'd do it for the price of several body parts on the black market.

 

[taralon]

Looking over these driveshaft issues, has anyone just taken their 2 piece shaft into a driveline specialty shop and had it rebalanced? I know the Ford shops near me don't have driveshaft balancers, if they have a driveshaft issue, they just replace it. It really seems to me that ford might have a systematic problem with the driveshaft not being properly balanced from their supplier. Looking at the shaft under my truck currently, I really doubt that they either balanced it poperly as a unit, or that the person doing it really understood how to do it. All my weights are at the transmission/pinion end and their size and placement are also suspect.

I think having one of the 'vibrating' shafts thrown on a balance table as a unit, and have the balance checked along with runout readings taken would probably be quite instructive.

 

[Tbalt14]

It is impossible to do aluminum on these shafts. This is because the slip yoke has to be integrated into the drive shaft. the spline stub needs to be steel and the spline stub needs to weld to the tube. Obviously you can't weld a steel spline stub to an aluminum tube. If you look at aluminum shafts they are all what we call a "reverse slip" style shaft. This type of shaft uses a slip yoke at the end of the shaft. That slip yoke slides in and out the transmission or transfer case. Because that slip yoke is attached to the drive shaft via the u-joint coupling the slip yoke on the reverse slip style shaft can be, and is, steel. Because the Ranger uses a bolt on flange attachment at each end the slip yoke and spline must be integrated into the middle of the shaft so it has to be steel. Google image search "aluminum drive shaft" and you'll see what I mean about all of them being a different type of slip yoke.

Same story for carbon fiber. It isn't possible unless its a reverse slip drive shaft.

Steel is the only option for these shafts.

*EDIT* I think it is actually possible with carbon fiber. One would have to use a part like this, a weldable bonded sleeve, in the carbon tube, then weld a spline to that. We don't build carbon fiber shafts though. From what I know about carbon fiber shafts I'm estimating that a carbon fiber shaft would be around $2,500. That is, if you could get someone to make one for a Ranger.

Well I guess that would be why I couldn’t find a aluminum shaft. ?

 

[Tbalt14]

Looking over these driveshaft issues, has anyone just taken their 2 piece shaft into a driveline specialty shop and had it rebalanced? I know the Ford shops near me don't have driveshaft balancers, if they have a driveshaft issue, they just replace it. It really seems to me that ford might have a systematic problem with the driveshaft not being properly balanced from their supplier. Looking at the shaft under my truck currently, I really doubt that they either balanced it poperly as a unit, or that the person doing it really understood how to do it. All my weights are at the transmission/pinion end and their size and placement are also suspect.

I think having one of the 'vibrating' shafts thrown on a balance table as a unit, and have the balance checked along with runout readings taken would probably be quite instructive.

Ford purposely has their shafts about 15 degrees out of phase. Probably part of our problem. If I was to re-balance I would buy another from a used truck salvage and re- clock into phase and then balance. Ford also doesn’t have the pinion flange parallel to either the front shaft angle or the transfer case flange. I adjusted my pinion to be parallel to the transfer case, shimmed the carrier down 3/8” to get center joint at .55 degrees and my startup vibes are gone except if I floor the accelerator from dead stop but it’s still less than what it was factory. Normal driving no vibes. It’s more a problem I’m pretty sure with the weak springs allowing to much axle wrap.

 

[TJC]

Ford purposely has their shafts about 15 degrees out of phase. Probably part of our problem. If I was to re-balance I would buy another from a used truck salvage and re- clock into phase and then balance. Ford also doesn’t have the pinion flange parallel to either the front shaft angle or the transfer case flange. I adjusted my pinion to be parallel to the transfer case, shimmed the carrier down 3/8” to get center joint at .55 degrees and my startup vibes are gone except if I floor the accelerator from dead stop but it’s still less than what it was factory. Normal driving no vibes. It’s more a problem I’m pretty sure with the weak springs allowing to much axle wrap.

None of this is new to automotive engineering. These are decades old drive line principles. Ford cut corners, and violated those principles.

To sum up, a cumulative result of poor design decisions; based upon saving a few cents here and there, and meeting ever stricter CAFE standards, instead of focusing on reliability and performance standards.

And then Ford wonders why it has so much warranty work costing them billions each year!

Same goes for the AC air duct cool/hot mix design. They saved a few cents on a part that costs thousands of $$ to replace due to having to remove the entire dash to get to it.

Penny wise - Pound foolish.

 

[Tbalt14]

None of this is new to automotive engineering. These are decades old drive line principles. Ford cut corners, and violated those principles.

To sum up, a cumulative result of poor design decisions; based upon saving a few cents here and there, and meeting ever stricter CAFE standards, instead of focusing on reliability and performance standards.

And then Ford wonders why it has so much warranty work costing them billions each year!

Same goes for the AC air duct cool/hot mix design. They saved a few cents on a part that costs thousands of $$ to replace due to having to remove the entire dash to get to it.

Penny wise - Pound foolish.

You are correct that this in decades old drive line principles but knowing most won't do the research I thought I would share my setup to help others. Swapping to the one piece for $700 isn't needed if time is taken to measure your angles and modify them correctly. Shimming the two piece is about 1/3 the cost.

 

[navsnipe]

You are correct that this in decades old drive line principles but knowing most won't do the research I thought I would share my setup to help others. Swapping to the one piece for $700 isn't needed if time is taken to measure your angles and modify them correctly. Shimming the two piece is about 1/3 the cost.

Shimming and angles do not always resolve the issue with this vehicle. I'm not going to regurgitate my adventure with the driveline shudder and vibes. My truck went through two dealerships to finally a Ford Field Service Engineer over the course of two years. They checked the angles and shims, all were in spec after performing TSB 20-2277. They told me it's the best it's going to get, mild compared to many others.

We can all speculate what Ford should have done and why they did what they did. My opinion is they need to get their shit together and make quality vehicles. I really don't care how many they pump off a production line.

I'm very picky and aware of subtle things with machinery. After speaking with Shawn Woods and many others experienced in drivelines, I put a TW one-piece driveshaft on my truck and the problem is gone. I shouldn't have to do this myself but if I didn't it would still shudder and vibrate.

 

[Fitzmotor]

I have moved the angles all over, dropped the carrier as well, you can move it around, almost get rid if it, but the vibration (on my truck) is still barely there on hard acceleration and heavily loaded.

I sure would like to have a shaft that was not out of time, just to see if the old school driveshaft building practices would fix it, I have never heard of factory out of time shafts until this truck, but I guess its a thing across more than one mfg.

I have said it before, a torque arm would solve everything, without axle wrap up you eliminate any pinon climb, in my opinion that is the #1 problem with acceleration shudder.

 

[Tbalt14]

I have moved the angles all over, dropped the carrier as well, you can move it around, almost get rid if it, but the vibration (on my truck) is still barely there on hard acceleration and heavily loaded.

I sure would like to have a shaft that was not out of time, just to see if the old school driveshaft building practices would fix it, I have never heard of factory out of time shafts until this truck, but I guess its a thing across more than one mfg.

I have said it before, a torque arm would solve everything, without axle wrap up you eliminate any pinon climb, in my opinion that is the #1 problem with acceleration shudder.

Where are you located, I have a second shaft and was planning on doing the same to it but no longer have to. Truck had 1400 miles on it when removed.

 

[TJC]

You are correct that this in decades old drive line principles but knowing most won't do the research I thought I would share my setup to help others. Swapping to the one piece for $700 isn't needed if time is taken to measure your angles and modify them correctly. Shimming the two piece is about 1/3 the cost.

I think you are correct in what you wrote. I appreciated that you shared your thoughts. I simply expounded on it.

I do think the solid driveshaft is a better solution in that it eliminates the sloppy carrier bearing as well. I do not feel any vibration at all, even with the parabolic leaf setup (with rotating diff changing the angles under load).

Two piece driveshafts can work, but they need to be quality parts paired with excellent engineering.

Ford provided neither. We got substandard parts and poor design engineering.

My opinions only...

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