Oil Catch Can. Yes or No?

Porpoise Hork

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And where would the carbon deposit come from?
The carbon deposits the result of the PVC system. It's an inherent issue on all DI engines that lack any sort of pre-injector mounted on the intake plenum before the valves.

Port injection engines spray fuel directly on the intake valves and the detergents in the fuel assist in keeping the valves relatively clean. On DI engines without a port or intake fuel injection system the intake valves never come into contact with the fuel. Over time the vaporized oil from daily operation gets drawn past the intake valves and over time slowly starts to build up as carbon deposits. This buildup can cause loss of performance, mpg, poor idle. and in some extreme cases minor damage to intake valve or seats. Over the lifetime of a DI engine the buildup can get to be this bad or worse if not addressed in some sort of maintenance.

-sludge-build-up-intake-vavles-possible-fix-carbon.jpg


Some manufactures have started adding a small pre-injector to regularly shoot small jets of fuel into the intake to help reduce this buildup, but most still have not as they see the added benefit does not override the increased expense. Add to that this issue does not typically present itself until well after the factory warranty has expired. Once it gets to this point cleaners like Seafoam and others like it are mostly useless. To clean this it would require pulling the intake and manually scraping the deposits off the valves, or using a walnut blaster and cleaning the ports and valves. Neither of these process is a quick and easy job.

By adding a oil catch can you are putting a device inline that can temporarily slow the vacuum coming from the PCV allowing the vaporized oil to collect in a small reservoir, thus reducing the carbon buildup significantly. Regular cleaning of the valves and intake with a catalytic safe solvent like Seafoam while possibly not as effective as a quality catch can can prevent the valves from looking like the previous picture and looking more like this after 100K + miles.

Before-300x169.jpg


If you add a catch can and do regular intake valve cleaning on top of that, then the intake runners and vales will very likely stay nearly as clean as the port injected engines.
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Doc

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The carbon deposits the result of the PVC system. It's an inherent issue on all DI engines that lack any sort of pre-injector mounted on the intake plenum before the valves.

Port injection engines spray fuel directly on the intake valves and the detergents in the fuel assist in keeping the valves relatively clean. On DI engines without a port or intake fuel injection system the intake valves never come into contact with the fuel. Over time the vaporized oil from daily operation gets drawn past the intake valves and over time slowly starts to build up as carbon deposits. This buildup can cause loss of performance, mpg, poor idle. and in some extreme cases minor damage to intake valve or seats. Over the lifetime of a DI engine the buildup can get to be this bad or worse if not addressed in some sort of maintenance.

-sludge-build-up-intake-vavles-possible-fix-carbon.jpg


Some manufactures have started adding a small pre-injector to regularly shoot small jets of fuel into the intake to help reduce this buildup, but most still have not as they see the added benefit does not override the increased expense. Add to that this issue does not typically present itself until well after the factory warranty has expired. Once it gets to this point cleaners like Seafoam and others like it are mostly useless. To clean this it would require pulling the intake and manually scraping the deposits off the valves, or using a walnut blaster and cleaning the ports and valves. Neither of these process is a quick and easy job.

By adding a oil catch can you are putting a device inline that can temporarily slow the vacuum coming from the PCV allowing the vaporized oil to collect in a small reservoir, thus reducing the carbon buildup significantly. Regular cleaning of the valves and intake with a catalytic safe solvent like Seafoam while possibly not as effective as a quality catch can can prevent the valves from looking like the previous picture and looking more like this after 100K + miles.

Before-300x169.jpg


If you add a catch can and do regular intake valve cleaning on top of that, then the intake runners and vales will very likely stay nearly as clean as the port injected engines.
How do you get carbon deposits in the catch can...as @ Jacob said..
 

weasel1

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How do you get carbon deposits in the catch can...as @ Jacob said..
The pcv system returns oil vapor/combustion blow-by to the intake so that it can be recycled. Those vapors collect on the valves and stick. Hot/oily vapor turns to carbon deposits. A catch can collect most of that and prevent the eventual carbon deposits. Or something like that ?
 
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Doc

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The pcv system returns oil vapor/combustion blow-by to the intake so that it can be recycled. Those vapors collect on the valves and stick. Hot/oily vapor turns to carbon deposits. A catch can collect most of that and prevent the eventual carbon deposits. Or something like that ?
How does the carbon get into the catch can...
 

u wish u could ride

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How does the carbon get into the catch can...
he means the oil vapors .you stickler you!! I figure with all the fuel in these things catch cans ford is for sure using it to keep the intake valves clean . so maybe taking that nice cleansing fuel out of the pcv system you maybe not helping the valve cleaning. they must of learned something with the millions of ecoboost engines on the road.
 


Jacob

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he means the oil vapors .you stickler you!! I figure with all the fuel in these things catch cans ford is for sure using it to keep the intake valves clean . so maybe taking that nice cleansing fuel out of the pcv system you maybe not helping the valve cleaning. they must of learned something with the millions of ecoboost engines on the road.
I’ve actually been thinking about that. Here’s the only thing I can wrap my head around. So the fuel goes through the PCV without a can and if they are really putting extra in there, then it should clean and burn up its second time around. If this was the case shouldn’t there be no fuel in my oil since I have the catch can? Unfortunately my ranger suffers the same as many others, fuel finds its way into my oil. Mine isn’t as bad though because it’s never enough to change my oil height on the dip stick.

you could have something there tho
 
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Doc

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I’ve actually been thinking about that. Here’s the only thing I can wrap my head around. So the fuel goes through the PCV without a can and if they are really putting extra in there, then it should clean and burn up its second time around. If this was the case shouldn’t there be no fuel in my oil since I have the catch can? Unfortunately my ranger suffers the same as many others, fuel finds its way into my oil. Mine isn’t as bad though because it’s never enough to change my oil height on the dip stick.

you could have something there tho
I know how a catch can works however there should be no carbon in there..the carbon is what’s burned on to the valves..fuel in the oil is an over pressure fuel pump, or a bad injector, or unseated rings..
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I know how a catch can works however there should be no carbon in there..the carbon is what’s burned on to the valves..fuel in the oil is an over pressure fuel pump, or a bad injector, or unseated rings..
Regards
So explain the carbon I have found on the baffles and within the can when cleaned?
 
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db_tanker

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jacob,

I am shooting in the dark here but would it have something to do with a combination of us having a boosted engine AND the fact that regardless of how tight the tolerances are you will have blow-by regardless on any engine. These two items combined together with other outside forces (driving style, fuel differences, oil differences, impurities in both, hiccups in the ignition control from the ecu, etc etc) all can combine to cause carbon and such.

I am sure that others can and will have additional data here but just from my experience this is what I believe to be the reason for the carbon.

And because its carbon it ultimately does this -

how dare you.jpg
 

Porpoise Hork

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I know how a catch can works however there should be no carbon in there..the carbon is what’s burned on to the valves..fuel in the oil is an over pressure fuel pump, or a bad injector, or unseated rings..
Regards
So explain the carbon I have found on the baffles and within the can when cleaned?

You can read up on why carbon buildup is an issue with GDI engines from this report on dual port fuel delivery systems (Port Injection & DI). The author explains why there was the push to the DI fuel delivery, the problems it causes and how manufacturers are working to solve it.

GDI sprays gasoline directly into the combustion chamber under much higher pressure (2,200 psi or more) than PFI’s intake manifold spray (40-60 psi). Increased GDI contaminants blow past low-tension piston rings into the oil sump. Then, positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) passes oil-laden contaminants into the intake air stream where, according to SAE Paper 2002-01-2660, oily PCV crankcase vapors and droplets combine with exhaust gas recirculation carbon particles and heat to layer over sticky intake valve coatings and bake into deposits. This creates larger, harder and more crusty deposits in the fuel system.
Article found here.

Another thing that can be done is using oil specially formulated for GDI engines. This article goes into detail on the issues the implementation of GDI has caused for oil contamination, and how improved technology in oil additives to further reduce the carbon deposit buildup. It also outlines differences in oil sold here vs in Europe and why they are not seeing the same buildup issues that we are.

Motor Oil

Hope this helps clear up some of the confusion as to how, why this is happening on DI only engines.
 

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I'm curious if a methanol/water injection set-up would be of benefit to keeping the valves clean.
 

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This is one of the best threads I've ever read. I'll be ordering my catch can for my 19 Ranger as well as my wifes Escape. I see no reason to not have the extra protection with such a low cost to add it as well.
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