Is Miata always the answer?

[ctechbob]

So what does the Miata offer over say, the BRZ/FRS?

Cheaper and not as fragile.

The BRZ/FRS still have a Subaru motor which historically has been problematic in a few ways. Blown head gaskets etc. Thrashing them on a track will probably shorten their lives quite a bit.

The BP Mazda engine as used in the Miata was originally built for the Turbo 323, so it is WAY overbuilt in NA form. Not many other NA 100hp cars come with piston squirters from the factory. The BP motor can be pushed up to about 250hp on stock internals, granted, you're talking about shortening the life of it as well, but I personally know of a 1991 that's on its stock motor that's crossed 300k, with 200k of that supercharged to 170hp.

Granted, an NA/NB is not as fast as the Subie twins and they handle pretty well all on their own.

This is all strictly speaking of the NA/NB series (1990-2005), after that, my knowledge runs out, the motor and chassis' changed substantially, etc.

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[Dr. Zaius]

I had a 2015 NC with the PRHT (Power Retractable Hard Top) and it was a terrific little car.

Not a good daily driver due to it being so small and other drivers being so distracted. I almost got flattened in a parking lot by an old Chevy dually who simply did not see me.

Mine was the 6 speed auto with the paddle shifters and while it was fun, it really needed a manual to get the full effect.

My knowledge on them is primarily on the NC series (2006-2015) so in those years you want a 2009 and up for the better interior, better manual trans, and forged engine internals with the manual trans versions.

You can install a Dynotronics turbo kit for about $4k and have 300 RWHP which is PLENTY for a car that size.

Or if you just want displacement you can swap the engine out for a 2.5 for even less $$ and have a little more HP and a LOT more TQ.

If you plan on driving it any more than just the occasional sprint, I can't recommend the PRHT highly enough. It is FAR quieter than the cloth top, far more secure, and unlike the ND hardtop it completely folds away and looks just as clean as the ragtop version.

Also, the manual trans versions will scream on the highway due to the engine revving so high. I kept looking for another gear after 6 to shift into. The auto is much more relaxed on the highway.

Last comment: If you think your Ranger is a money pit for mods, you need to stay very FAR AWAY from a Miata.

 

[Mellow]

Great source for info any a great forum with very helpful members -> https://www.miata.net/

 

[D Fresh]

Clutch masters and slaves are a known weak spot. Not that they fail quickly and massively, they just leak over time, so its good those are getting replaced.

The timing belt is supposed to be done every 60k, but it is a non-interference motor, broken belt won't hurt anything other than you having to tow the car somewhere. Do the water pump at the same time.



I'm struggling to remember anything that isn't just a wear item.

The top end might make noise. Pretty common. The HLA's get clogged up over time, some worse than others. Won't hurt the motor, more annoying than anything. Wouldn't stop me from buying a nice example.

Sometimes they tick for a bit when cold, sometimes they tick when driven hard and are hot. You can play around with oil weights sometimes to mitigate it.

Alignment bolts should probably be replaced. If they are original they will eventually stretch and not hold the alignment properly or clunk. The new design is stronger. If you hear a clunk or a pop from the front end during braking or cornering, that's probably the reason.

Oil in spark plug holes, replace the valve cover gasket.

The biggest thing with a 91 model is halfway through the run they changed from the short nose crankshaft to the big nose. You want the big nose. The smaller nose can be a bit fragile, but there are still plenty of them out there.

https://www.miata.net/garage/crankshaft.html

Again, I wouldn't not buy a clean example because of it, but just keep it in the back of your mind. Engine swaps are not hard and there's still big nose used and new units out there last I knew.

The factory shocks are going to be shot by now, plan to upgrade.

The factory shifter bushing can wear out and cause sloppy shifting. There's an aluminum replacement that fixes it right up. While your there, replace the shifter boots, they're probably trashed if they've never been changes. You should probably plan on replacing them every 3-4 years, they wear out quick usually.

A good synthetic GL5 gear lube in the rear end (It only holds something like a quart) and some Redline MT90 in the transmission. Don't use GL5 in the transmission, you'll hate it.

Upgrades....

The #1 thing when upgrading. Don't lower the car too much without planning for new upper mounts. There's not a lot of shock travel in the factory setup and lowering a good amount will put you on the hard factory bump stops all the time. It will handle and ride like crap. The aftermarket of course has solutions. Shorter shocks (Koni Race) or the upper mounts from an NB combined with progressive urethane bumpstops work wonders, especially in the rear.

Fancy brakes with stock power. Just not necessary. You can run sticky Dot-R compound tires with factory 1.6 brakes with just a pad upgrade to a suitable track pad. If push comes to shove and you need more braking, you can install the larger brakes from a 1.8L car pretty easily.

Be careful with using a big front swaybar with the factory springs. You can tear the mounts off the car. If you use a higher rate spring, you'll probably be ok. Ground Control's coil-over kit comes with 375# front and 250# rear if memory serves. They are an excellent jumping off point paired with a good set of shocks. I preferred Koni.

Get a good alignment, this applies to anything from Stock to modded. A good performance alignment by a competent shop does wonders for these cars. Don't settle for a lifetime Firestone alignment unless that shop comes recommended from some local people.

I'm sure I'll think of something else tonight.

**EDIT**

Told you I'd think of something else. It is not unheard of for the pinion nut on the differential to back off. Happened to me and destroyed the unit. It may well be a good idea to hit it with a new nut and loctite. I can't remember the procedure for doing that offhand and if you are driving it on the street, I don't think I would worry about it. But if you are going to tack it, it would be a good idea.

Awesome tips. Thank you. Car just got a timing belt and water pump done on top of the clutch, slave and master cylinder. Also has NB (I believe) seats in it. He said the lady who owned it added leather that was horribly done.. The auto broker selling it is really into Miatas. Seems to know his stuff.

Here's the Craigslist ad...

https://denver.craigslist.org/ctd/d/englewood-1990-mazda-miata-owner-only/7349173355.html

So what does the Miata offer over say, the BRZ/FRS?

Shawn listed a lot of good points. But I'll add removable roof, about 600 lbs less weight, and a complete lack of nannies. The '90 I'm looking at has no ABS, no traction control that never turns off, no TPMS, nada.

And then there's style

this...

Vs this...

And that's coming from a retired Subie guy.

 

[MountainGoat]

And that's coming from a retired Subie guy.

Is that supposed to be ugly? Minus the wheels and wing I'd take the BRZ.

I drove a Miata once and while fun, my eyeline was about even with the top of the windshield.

 

[Mellow]

A pretty great review of all 4 generations:

 

[D Fresh]

Is that supposed to be ugly? Minus the wheels and wing I'd take the BRZ.

I drove a Miata once and while fun, my eyeline was about even with the top of the windshield.

Not ugly. But not pretty either. BRZs are nice. Very similar driving dynamics as Miatas.

For me the BRZ crowd are folks I'd prefer to not be associated with. Not looking for a new vehicle and most used ones have questionable history. Now that Toyota owns Subaru I'm probably done with new ones. Add in the fact that it's harder and harder to find a clean NA and for me it's a no brainer.

The Miata holds such an iconic place in car culture. I feel any car guy worth his salt owes it to himself to at least seriously shop one given the chance.

Might the BReighty6 get there one day? Maybe.

 

[Pinepig]

Miatas are neat when you fit in them, my 38" inseam says " not even close " so I went with a 2002, surprisingly roomy.

 

[dondonbabyraptor]

Not ugly. But not pretty either. BRZs are nice. Very similar driving dynamics as Miatas.

For me the BRZ crowd are folks I'd prefer to not be associated with. Not looking for a new vehicle and most used ones have questionable history. Now that Toyota owns Subaru I'm probably done with new ones. Add in the fact that it's harder and harder to find a clean NA and for me it's a no brainer.

The Miata holds such an iconic place in car culture. I feel any car guy worth his salt owes it to himself to at least seriously shop one given the chance.

Might the BReighty6 get there one day? Maybe.

I think you hit the nail on the head on why you like Miata more. "iconic place in car culture" is really what probably strikes you as this car has history behind it with no need for additional horsepower than to feel the curves of a road in an "iconic" NA car. I feel like the BRZ has a place in younger generations with the Fast and Furious movies displaying them... I don't knock either crowd really, but I do prefer the Miata. However, I love the new gen ones 2019+. I am just a Mazda fan boy at heart though, my first new car was a 2012 Mazda 3. Lowered, rear sway bar, intake, exhaust, aesthetically modded, white/very light blue headlights, and blacked out. This thread makes me miss Mazda. My dream car has been and still will be a modded Miata, just a newer model. I fancy the tech.

 

[MountainGoat]

Not ugly. But not pretty either. BRZs are nice. Very similar driving dynamics as Miatas.

For me the BRZ crowd are folks I'd prefer to not be associated with. Not looking for a new vehicle and most used ones have questionable history. Now that Toyota owns Subaru I'm probably done with new ones. Add in the fact that it's harder and harder to find a clean NA and for me it's a no brainer.

The Miata holds such an iconic place in car culture. I feel any car guy worth his salt owes it to himself to at least seriously shop one given the chance.

Might the BReighty6 get there one day? Maybe.

Yeah I'd imagine used BRZs are all beat to hell especially when a lot of reviews points to how great for drifting they are. Plenty of Miatas around owned by old sunday drivers with 30k miles on them, that was the one I drove years ago. If willing to do an auto-manual swap could probably find a real creampuff.

 

[D Fresh]

Yeah I'd imagine used BRZs are all beat to hell especially when a lot of reviews points to how great for drifting they are. Plenty of Miatas around owned by old sunday drivers with 30k miles on them, that was the one I drove years ago. If willing to do an auto-manual swap could probably find a real creampuff.

Absolutely. The '90 I'm looking at has 33k miles and is manual. No auto or ABS in '90.

I think you hit the nail on the head on why you like Miata more. "iconic place in car culture" is really what probably strikes you as this car has history behind it with no need for additional horsepower than to feel the curves of a road in an "iconic" NA car. I feel like the BRZ has a place in younger generations with the Fast and Furious movies displaying them... I don't knock either crowd really, but I do prefer the Miata. However, I love the new gen ones 2019+. I am just a Mazda fan boy at heart though, my first new car was a 2012 Mazda 3. Lowered, rear sway bar, intake, exhaust, aesthetically modded, white/very light blue headlights, and blacked out. This thread makes me miss Mazda. My dream car has been and still will be a modded Miata, just a newer model. I fancy the tech.

We have a CX-5 too. Maybe I'm a bit of a fanboy also.

I get the need/want for tech. I've got plenty of that in the Ranger and the CX-5. If I replace the FiST with this Miata it'l put us even. Two high tech cars, Ranger and CX-5, and two low tech, YJ and Miata.

What little tech I need can be added easily. A good stereo and heated seats.

 

[Mellow]

Absolutely. The '90 I'm looking at has 33k miles and is manual. No auto or ABS in '90.

We have a CX-5 too. Maybe I'm a bit of a fanboy also.

I get the need/want for tech. I've got plenty of that in the Ranger and the CX-5. If I replace the FiST with this Miata it'l put us even. Two high tech cars, Ranger and CX-5, and two low tech, YJ and Miata.

What little tech I need can be added easily. A good stereo and heated seats.

Not sure what options the NA has but I added an android head unit in my NC and along with a Bluetooth OBDII devices and the Torque Pro App, you can display a crazy amount of info... again, not sure if that's available for the NA but even without the APP the head unit will give you a very nice upgraded stereo.

 

[dondonbabyraptor]

Absolutely. The '90 I'm looking at has 33k miles and is manual. No auto or ABS in '90.

We have a CX-5 too. Maybe I'm a bit of a fanboy also.

I get the need/want for tech. I've got plenty of that in the Ranger and the CX-5. If I replace the FiST with this Miata it'l put us even. Two high tech cars, Ranger and CX-5, and two low tech, YJ and Miata.

What little tech I need can be added easily. A good stereo and heated seats.

Please trade the FiST in and get this. Clean it, mess with it, mod it, update us so we can envy it.

 

[D Fresh]

So yesterday morning when I looked at it we were discussing me coming back for a test drive. Dude said he had an auction this morning and a Dr's appointment this afternoon. Told him I'd come down this evening before work to drive it.

Called to verify before heading down, no answer. Left messages on business line and cell phone, also sent a text. No reply until this at 5:44, we were set to meet @ 5:30.

Sorry Doug. I sent this at 8:30 this morning. I just saw that it didn't go through.
Good Morning Doug, give me a call when you get up. I wanted to let you know that another client that I had been talking to bought the Miata yesterday. He hasn't picked it up yet so if something falls through with the transaction I will let you know. Thank you for taking the time to come down and see it yesterday Xenti

Wow. Funny you didn't seem very anxious to sell yesterday. Hell if I would've known I might have made an offer yesterday.

I get that you're running a business, but that's a straight up dick move.

Maybe next time you might wanna wait to advertise until the vehicle is ready for sale.

So me and Fifi (my FiST) will continue on. So long 'till next time something strikes my fancy.

 

[MountainGoat]

Damn that sucks but not surprising. Used car market is full of dipshits.

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