Ford warns that Active Cruise Control can NOT be used with an aftermarket trailer brake controller

Phish806

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Lets throw another thing in this sespool of misinformation:

Driving today with cruise on and i push the Redarc button to apply trailer brakes (trailer not connected) and the cruise control shuts off. So, If pushing the button on the redarc cancels the cruise control that means the computer can see the brake light signal coming from the rear brake lights even though im not pushing on the pedal i am activating them with the redarc. So does this mean that it works the other way and the redarc will see that the computer activates the brake lights via an AEB stop?

all of this with the Redarc wired to the four wires in the kick panel.

Food for thought.
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Jerry Caldwell

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No, they think there's a "trailer plug brake wire" which simply isn't true. There is so much misinformation on this it's ridiculous.

I think it's time to hang a bed sheet across the driveway and test out this AEB thing once and for all.
I agree. The Redarc installation instructions include a test process to make sure it activates without having a trailer involved. It involves a jumper across two of the 7 pin connectors and a simple brake application. If it is functioning properly the Redarc knob will light up. This and the bed sheet would be a safe way to try it out and settle the debate.
 

Phish806

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I agree. The Redarc installation instructions include a test process to make sure it activates without having a trailer involved. It involves a jumper across two of the 7 pin connectors and a simple brake application. If it is functioning properly the Redarc knob will light up. This and the bed sheet would be a safe way to try it out and settle the debate.
I can not seem to find this test procedure in the manual. Can you paste in into this thread please.
 

Floyd

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For nearly fifty years I had reason to believe that my Ford dealer was the best and most knowledgeable source for Ford related issues.
This sort of nonsense has become WAAAYY too common.

From the introduction of the 2019 Ranger, the incompetence and ignorance of Ford's support for this truck has been ASTOUNDING!
I'm glad that the engineering and assembly has been good, since marketing and service have no answers to simple questions and have repeatedly failed to honor commitments made or to compensate for their own mistakes.
In addition they have not bothered to educate their techs so that they can handle problems or questions as they arise.
I shutter to think what may happen if I should have a warranty issue.

Ford buyers deserve straight ,true, honest and timely answers to questions of concern to owners,especially when safety is involved.

Ford should have a plausible answer to every question about their products and services and how they function with a simple phone call.

A great product deserves great support.
 
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dmeyer302

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For nearly fifty years I had reason to believe that my Ford dealer was the best and most knowledgeable source for Ford related issues.
This sort of nonsense has become WAAAYY too common.

From the introduction of the 2019 Ranger, the incompetence and ignorance of Ford's support for this truck has been ASTOUNDING!
I'm glad that the engineering and assembly has been good, since marketing and service have no answers to simple questions and have repeatedly failed to honor commitments made or to compensate for their own mistakes.
In addition they have not bothered to educate their techs so that they can handle problems or questions as they arise.
I shutter to think what may happen if I should have a warranty issue.

Ford buyers deserve straight ,true, honest and timely answers to questions of concern to owners,especially when safety is involved.

Ford should have a plausible answer to every question about their products and services and how they function with a simple phone call.

A great product deserves great support.
You're completely right, but no matter how good our truck is, it'll always be the stepchild compared to the money printing press that is the F-150.
 

Floyd

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As I stated earlier, adaptive cruise may try to slow your vehicle down without applying the brakes (this has a significant advantage actually - in congested traffic the constant braking by adaptive cruise is sometimes unwarranted and drives the drivers behind you nut-so). With a tow spec of 7500 Lb, that would mean the vehicle has to slow down 7500 more pounds if it doesn't activate the trailer brakes (ie, by downshifting). That could be okay most of the time but I don't want to be the sucker that loses the 1:10000 (or whatever) odds.

I love Adaptive cruise control and have used it for many miles. But it would likely drive me nuts if I were towing a heavy trailer, in traffic, where I don't have full control over when and how much braking to apply.
I never tow fast enough on the interstate for adaptive cruise control to matter... We usually overtake about once every couple hours, so I just tap down when needed or pass when appropriate. My regular cruise is fine for that.
In fact I commonly have trouble finding a comfortable spot for my right foot while using cruise... Ford should have a small dead pedal to the right of the throttle.
 

k1w1t1m

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It would seem that the real question here is does the signal wire under the dash get powered on when the brake lights come on from AEB activation or CC and the brake pedal is not depressed?
 

Floyd

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It would seem that the real question here is does the signal wire under the dash get powered on when the brake lights come on from AEB activation or CC and the brake pedal is not depressed?
And further..
Why is it that Ford can"t answer such a simple question with a simple phone call?
 

Floyd

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It would seem that the real question here is does the signal wire under the dash get powered on when the brake lights come on from AEB activation or CC and the brake pedal is not depressed?
Consider this... and comment...
if you use the four plug or an RV plug to a tow utility trailer without brakes the brake lights are triggered the same as the brake lights on the truck.
Assuming AEB included.
So whether you have a brake controller or not, the brake lights on the trailer should work even during an AEB event.

That leaves us to wonder only whether an AEB event will trigger the trailer brakes..
It would seem that truck braking alone would be sufficient for active cruise to work well under normal circumstances.

If the trailer is near the 7500 pound limit, there might be too much push from the trailer in an AEB event... but modern Brake controllers do have inertial response,... and wouldn't you instinctively hit the brakes once the cylon lights flash warning an AEB event anyway?

Now we know that an aftermarket REDARC, has pretty much the same features as a PRODIGY or an INSIGHT.
Ford should at least explain what is different between the REDARC and The Ford approved brake controller.
 

DrSafety

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Consider this... and comment..
That leaves us to wonder only whether an AEB event will trigger the trailer brakes..
It would seem that truck braking alone would be sufficient for active cruise to work well under normal circumstances.

If the trailer is near the 7500 pound limit, there might be too much push from the trailer in an AEB event... but modern Brake controllers do have inertial response,... and wouldn't you instinctively hit the brakes once the cylon lights flash warning an AEB event anyway?

Now we know that an aftermarket REDARC, has pretty much the same features as a PRODIGY or an INSIGHT.
Ford should at least explain what is different between the REDARC and The Ford approved brake controller.
Floyd,

The difference between the two controllers (Redarc and Ford) is where the brake controller activation signal is coming from not the controller itself. I posted this earlier in this thread that in the Ford Brake Controller Availability thread that is stickied above in post #63 there is confirmation from a Ford Engineer that the purple wire under the dash (brake controller activation wire) is activated by the brake pedal being depressed not the brake lights. The Ford version solves the problem by having the brake controller activation hooked up to the over cab brake light. You could hook a Redarc in the same fashion, but if you use the supplied purple brake wire the activation will not take place unless the brake pedal is depressed and that doesn't happen with adaptive cruise control or AEB.

I don't have adaptive cruise control so not an issue for me. I agree with you I will be hitting the brake pedal when the AEB starts to activate with all the lights and sounds unless I am unconscious. If an event happens so fast I can't hit the brake pedal the braking for the trailer by the brake light might lessen the damage a bit but it would still be extensive damage.
 

VAMike

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The difference between the two controllers (Redarc and Ford) is where the brake controller activation signal is coming from not the controller itself. I posted this earlier in this thread that in the Ford Brake Controller Availability thread that is stickied above in post #63 there is confirmation from a Ford Engineer that the purple wire under the dash (brake controller activation wire) is activated by the brake pedal being depressed not the brake lights. The Ford version solves the problem by having the brake controller activation hooked up to the over cab brake light.
I suspect it does more than that because it seems like overkill to provide an entire module just for that. Some cars flash the brake lights for AEB, and if the ranger does that the module may provide a constant input to the brake controller even if there's a flashing signal to the light. Sadly, we just no longer live in a world where you can get any answers to technical questions about something you buy.

You could hook a Redarc in the same fashion, but if you use the supplied purple brake wire the activation will not take place unless the brake pedal is depressed and that doesn't happen with adaptive cruise control or AEB.
I really wish we knew whether this was the full extent of the problem so we could make an informed decision. If it's really just "in the event of an accident where your last truck would have just hit something, this truck may apply insufficient braking force to stop" then fine, Ford can issue their CYA notice and we can all move on to something that matters. (Except for those people who would watch the AEB go off and not bother hitting the brakes--this is tremendously important for them.)

For the Australian version of the ranger this actually went the other way--traditionally you'd hook the brake controller to the light, and they specifically to stop doing that when AEB came out (I think they even said it was because of the possibility that the lights would be flashing). Makes me suspect that in Australia they figured that hooking the brake controller to the brake pedal was sufficient, but in America the lawyers decided that they'd get sued if the trailer brakes didn't activate when AEB went off. (And the lawyers didn't get involved until it was too late to implement something more sensible than the nutty solution they're selling now.)
 

Floyd

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Floyd,

The difference between the two controllers (Redarc and Ford) is where the brake controller activation signal is coming from not the controller itself. I posted this earlier in this thread that in the Ford Brake Controller Availability thread that is stickied above in post #63 there is confirmation from a Ford Engineer that the purple wire under the dash (brake controller activation wire) is activated by the brake pedal being depressed not the brake lights. The Ford version solves the problem by having the brake controller activation hooked up to the over cab brake light. You could hook a Redarc in the same fashion, but if you use the supplied purple brake wire the activation will not take place unless the brake pedal is depressed and that doesn't happen with adaptive cruise control or AEB.

I don't have adaptive cruise control so not an issue for me. I agree with you I will be hitting the brake pedal when the AEB starts to activate with all the lights and sounds unless I am unconscious. If an event happens so fast I can't hit the brake pedal the braking for the trailer by the brake light might lessen the damage a bit but it would still be extensive damage.
Thanks
The brake lights on the truck are activated during an AEB event which surely must at least include the brake lights on the trailer?
You and I don't have adaptive cruise control but we do have AEB, and we do need confirmation that the trailer ;lights are at least activated any time the truck's are. That should be true even with no brake controller installed.

So AEB is worthless when towing except for the warning light since it does not activate the trailer brakes:question:
My travel trailer is only 2000 pounds, so it doesn't matter much, but I just upgraded from 7" to 10" brakes for more effective braking...OH the irony!

I took my truck in for the taillight harness recall with nothing wrong with my taillights. I spent 6-1/2 hours waiting for them to do the inspection.
I am now told that I must bring it back in again because they did not document the work the first time and must do it again. This does not instill confidence.

I have built my own cars several times in the past, do I really have to go back to that?

I guess it just further confirms that it is wise to slow down and increase following distance when towing,
I really don't think AEB is something to trust or rely on anyway.
 
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DrSafety

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Mike,

Thanks for the reply I oversimplified the issue and hadn't considered the flashing light aspect. It appears using the brake pedal for activation would be better than trying to wire a non-Ford Redarc into a brake light.

The module in the kit from Ford is labeled Trailer Lamp ECU. By definition: A trailer Electronic Control Unit (ECU) is a module that controls the lighting signals for trailer lamps. The ECU isolates the vehicle's existing tail lamps circuits and transfers the power to the trailer lamps. Does that mean the module ignores the flashing to apply the trailer brake lights or cause them to flash as well?? Questions unanswered by Ford. My feeling the warning is a bit of CYA on Ford's part, but you are correct we don't know if that is true.

I plan on hitting the brake pedal and not relying on AEB so my trailer brakes will activate and as Floyd indicated not driving 75 mph towing my trailer.;)
 

Floyd

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Is this relevant? ...

Found this in my owners manual, page 198...

Note
:Distance indication and alert
deactivates and the graphics do not display
when adaptive cruise control is active.
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