ENGINE STUDDER

[BDUb]

Got my truck back and here is what was done under warranty. See attached pics.

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[BDUb]

Got my truck back and here is what was done under warranty. See attached pics.

I must add that El Cajon Ford did a FANTASTIC job thoroughly addressing my complaints.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

I must add that El Cajon Ford did a FANTASTIC job thoroughly addressing my complaints.

Hi Kevin,

More importantly...did this repair fix your problem?

 

[BDUb]

Hi Kevin,

More importantly...did this repair fix your problem?

So far yes, its only been one day but upon starting from the dealership yesterday and the cold start this morning It has not repeated the issue.

 

[Robert Scott]

BDUb we are all waiting with baited breath to see if the problem is resolved. One start is fine; lets see after more cycles. Please check back in a week or two.

Phil, thank you for your input. It is great that you share your knowledge, expertise and incite.

 

[BDUb]

BDUb we are all waiting with baited breath to see if the problem is resolved. One start is fine; lets see after more cycles. Please check back in a week or two.

Phil, thank you for your input. It is great that you share your knowledge, expertise and incite.

10-4...this morning cold start and go 0 shudder/srudder felt really good. Will post again next week. Please remind me if I forget.

 

[BDUb]

10-4...this morning cold start and go 0 shudder/studder felt really good. Will post again next week. Please remind me if I forget.

 

[BDUb]

Hey yall,

So it has been over 1 week and I have not had any of the same issues as before the injector replacement! Smooth sailing so far.

Just giving yall a heads up.

 

[WhiteLightning19]

My ranger started having a bad shudder/studder a couple of weeks ago. Use to do it when cold but now does it randomly even after running for an hour or so. Also has extremely hard shifts from 7-8 or 8-7. Need to schedule an appointment to get it in and looked at, so far no codes have been thrown. Our 2020 Limited Explorer with the 2.3 is buttery smooth in both the engine and transmission, albeit about 12k less miles on it.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

My ranger started having a bad shudder/studder a couple of weeks ago. Use to do it when cold but now does it randomly even after running for an hour or so. Also has extremely hard shifts from 7-8 or 8-7. Need to schedule an appointment to get it in and looked at, so far no codes have been thrown. Our 2020 Limited Explorer with the 2.3 is buttery smooth in both the engine and transmission, albeit about 12k less miles on it.

Hi Chris,

This needs a ECM attention...this is not driveline related shudder when it all of a sudden happens. Driveline is there from the get go! Sounds like a calibration issue of the powertrain.

Good luck with resolution. Open up a formal complaint with Ford Customer Service...ask for a supervisor if the telephone person balks.... Something needs to be reflashed or updated.

Good Luck!

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[ChiefQM]

Hi Chris,

This needs a ECM attention...this is not driveline related shudder when it all of a sudden happens. Driveline is there from the get go! Sounds like a calibration issue of the powertrain.

Good luck with resolution. Open up a formal complaint with Ford Customer Service...ask for a supervisor if the telephone person balks.... Something needs to be reflashed or updated.

Good Luck!

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Phil,
I am very pleased to see you on this forum. I am hoping you can give me a point in the right direction.

I purchased a 2019 Ranger XLT 4WD SuperCab a little over 3 weeks ago. It had 12400 miles on it, that had been put on the vehicle in about 6 months of service. It is a Ford Certified Vehicle. I had driven a 2020 Ranger a couple of weeks previous, so I had a good idea of what it should feel like. On the test drive, I noticed a very jerky ride as we left the dealer and pulled onto a frontage road with a 45 mph speed limit. The salesman gave me an answer that I recognized immediately as BS; he claimed it was because the vehicle had been sitting in the hot sun. It had been test driven not 20 minutes before, I watched him leave with the customer in the truck. Because it was Certified with a long warranty and certain that the issue could be resolved, I bought it.

I believe the driveability problem I experienced is the same or similar to what others are describing, the difference is in how the issue is being described. One member calls it 'studder', another calls it 'shudder', I call it jerky. I am going to try to describe exactly what I experienced.

Upon acceleration from a stop, with the transmission in Drive (not sport), the vehicle would jerk and bump (smooth road) until it reached about 45 miles per hour. This was not at the shift points (which are admittedly hard to find with an electronic 10 speed) but appeared to be in the drive bands from 2nd gear up to 7th gear. There were no unusual sounds and the transmission was not hunting for gears, and the engine was not over-revving.

In the next week, I came on this forum to research the issue before I called the dealer. I learned that TSB 19-2052 had been issued to reprogram the PCM, and the consensus was that would solve the problem. I made the appointment, waited almost 2 hours while it was reprogrammed, and it initially seemed to solve the problem. The service advisor told me that the TSB I mentioned was for F-250s and not the Ranger, but they reprogrammed the PCM anyway and that I should drive it awhile and see what I think. He obviously didn't thing the problem was serious, or was just hoping I would go away. As I am starting to have serious trust issues with this dealer, I suspect I will go away to find another dealer. As I did not believe the problem was an engine misfire, I did not mention TSB 19-2246. Perhaps I erred. I drove it and could still feel the jerkiness, but decided to see if it would go away, as I had read about the vehicle learning the driver's driving habits and adapting.

Today, I decided to carefully try to document the issue. With the transmission in Drive, and the minus side button selected on the shifter, I could see the gears on the dashboard. I watched carefully as the gears went from 1 up to 7, and felt the truck jerk in each gear, before and after the shift points. The road was reasonably smooth and not inclined. The jerkiness is not noticed upon hard acceleration, but as most of my driving is done where the speed limit is 30 miles per hour up to 45 miles per hour, I cannot put my foot in the injectors every time I take off. The tachometer remains steady when the jerking occurs, and it does not feel like an engine problem. The engine idles perfectly, and this behavior occurs whether the engine is warm or cold.

If there are any TSBs or other fixes that will address this issue, please let me know what I should be telling the dealer mechanics. I cannot believe this is the only vehicle behaving this way.

Thanks

Bill

 

[ryyck]

Hell yea,,,,,,

 

[ryyck]

Run them like you stole them in warranty...

 

[P. A. Schilke]

Phil,
I am very pleased to see you on this forum. I am hoping you can give me a point in the right direction.

I purchased a 2019 Ranger XLT 4WD SuperCab a little over 3 weeks ago. It had 12400 miles on it, that had been put on the vehicle in about 6 months of service. It is a Ford Certified Vehicle. I had driven a 2020 Ranger a couple of weeks previous, so I had a good idea of what it should feel like. On the test drive, I noticed a very jerky ride as we left the dealer and pulled onto a frontage road with a 45 mph speed limit. The salesman gave me an answer that I recognized immediately as BS; he claimed it was because the vehicle had been sitting in the hot sun. It had been test driven not 20 minutes before, I watched him leave with the customer in the truck. Because it was Certified with a long warranty and certain that the issue could be resolved, I bought it.

I believe the driveability problem I experienced is the same or similar to what others are describing, the difference is in how the issue is being described. One member calls it 'studder', another calls it 'shudder', I call it jerky. I am going to try to describe exactly what I experienced.

Upon acceleration from a stop, with the transmission in Drive (not sport), the vehicle would jerk and bump (smooth road) until it reached about 45 miles per hour. This was not at the shift points (which are admittedly hard to find with an electronic 10 speed) but appeared to be in the drive bands from 2nd gear up to 7th gear. There were no unusual sounds and the transmission was not hunting for gears, and the engine was not over-revving.

In the next week, I came on this forum to research the issue before I called the dealer. I learned that TSB 19-2052 had been issued to reprogram the PCM, and the consensus was that would solve the problem. I made the appointment, waited almost 2 hours while it was reprogrammed, and it initially seemed to solve the problem. The service advisor told me that the TSB I mentioned was for F-250s and not the Ranger, but they reprogrammed the PCM anyway and that I should drive it awhile and see what I think. He obviously didn't thing the problem was serious, or was just hoping I would go away. As I am starting to have serious trust issues with this dealer, I suspect I will go away to find another dealer. As I did not believe the problem was an engine misfire, I did not mention TSB 19-2246. Perhaps I erred. I drove it and could still feel the jerkiness, but decided to see if it would go away, as I had read about the vehicle learning the driver's driving habits and adapting.

Today, I decided to carefully try to document the issue. With the transmission in Drive, and the minus side button selected on the shifter, I could see the gears on the dashboard. I watched carefully as the gears went from 1 up to 7, and felt the truck jerk in each gear, before and after the shift points. The road was reasonably smooth and not inclined. The jerkiness is not noticed upon hard acceleration, but as most of my driving is done where the speed limit is 30 miles per hour up to 45 miles per hour, I cannot put my foot in the injectors every time I take off. The tachometer remains steady when the jerking occurs, and it does not feel like an engine problem. The engine idles perfectly, and this behavior occurs whether the engine is warm or cold.

If there are any TSBs or other fixes that will address this issue, please let me know what I should be telling the dealer mechanics. I cannot believe this is the only vehicle behaving this way.

Thanks

Bill

Hi Bill,

The TSB you indicated to the dealer is the correct one for Ranger....Therefore, you need another dealer and this TSB reflash should be done to see if it fixes this problem or at least improves it. What you are describing is not start up shudder which comes and goes quickly on initial start up. You have a different sort of condition and may be driveline related or powertrain related. What the Dealer Tech should do is use their vibration diagnostic tools and process to help narrow this down. Hard to say where this source of excitation is originating from. Since this was used vehicle, were there any mods of which you are aware? Are the wheels/tires OEM?

If I had to shoot from the hip (I am a lousy shot), I think you may find a U Joint in the driveshaft is defective...We have has similar problems that were tracked to a U Joint being tight due to a roller being dislodged and trapped by the U Joint cap. Normally this is fairly easy to pull the driveshaft and when laying on the workbench, move each joint through its range of motion. If any joint shows sticking or high efforts....replace that U joint.

The other thing is the driveshaft could have thrown a weight as they are spot welded on to the shaft. Inspecting the driveshaft should show an outline where a suspect weight was thrown, but not always. There is a process you can do wrt driveline imbalance. Get two hose clamps (we call them tangential screw clamps) and install on the driveshaft near the rear axle companion flange with the clamp heads side by side. Mark the clamp head location on the driveshaft with a Sharpe pen, piece of blue tape or what ever. Now drive the vehicle....Probably will be worse. Now clock the pair of clamps around the driveshaft about like a clock, starting at 12, then to 1 and then to 2 and so on, Drive and evaluate at each position noting better or worse from the 12 position. Mark each locaton and make the 12 starting location unique so you know where you are in this process At each mark for clamp head position, note with a B or a W Better or Worse....Okay you now have clocked the twin clamp heads around the driveshaft and are ready to relocate to the location that was best....now here is the fine tuning. When at the best location move the clamp heads equal distance, one head clockwise and one clamp counter clockwise. Evaluate if getting better, move each clamp in its direction equal distance again. You should fine tune to the point of achieving balance. If the clamps are 180° apart....you just wasted your time as the driveshaft is not the problem..... I have used this process with very good success several times when on the road development away from my NVH equipment. Takes all day but what the hey!

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[ChiefQM]

Hi Bill,

The TSB you indicated to the dealer is the correct one for Ranger....Therefore, you need another dealer and this TSB reflash should be done to see if it fixes this problem or at least improves it. What you are describing is not start up shudder which comes and goes quickly on initial start up. You have a different sort of condition and may be driveline related or powertrain related. What the Dealer Tech should do is use their vibration diagnostic tools and process to help narrow this down. Hard to say where this source of excitation is originating from. Since this was used vehicle, were there any mods of which you are aware? Are the wheels/tires OEM?

If I had to shoot from the hip (I am a lousy shot), I think you may find a U Joint in the driveshaft is defective...We have has similar problems that were tracked to a U Joint being tight due to a roller being dislodged and trapped by the U Joint cap. Normally this is fairly easy to pull the driveshaft and when laying on the workbench, move each joint through its range of motion. If any joint shows sticking or high efforts....replace that U joint.

The other thing is the driveshaft could have thrown a weight as they are spot welded on to the shaft. Inspecting the driveshaft should show an outline where a suspect weight was thrown, but not always. There is a process you can do wrt driveline imbalance. Get two hose clamps (we call them tangential screw clamps) and install on the driveshaft near the rear axle companion flange with the clamp heads side by side. Mark the clamp head location on the driveshaft with a Sharpe pen, piece of blue tape or what ever. Now drive the vehicle....Probably will be worse. Now clock the pair of clamps around the driveshaft about like a clock, starting at 12, then to 1 and then to 2 and so on, Drive and evaluate at each position noting better or worse from the 12 position. Mark each locaton and make the 12 starting location unique so you know where you are in this process At each mark for clamp head position, note with a B or a W Better or Worse....Okay you now have clocked the twin clamp heads around the driveshaft and are ready to relocate to the location that was best....now here is the fine tuning. When at the best location move the clamp heads equal distance, one head clockwise and one clamp counter clockwise. Evaluate if getting better, move each clamp in its direction equal distance again. You should fine tune to the point of achieving balance. If the clamps are 180° apart....you just wasted your time as the driveshaft is not the problem..... I have used this process with very good success several times when on the road development away from my NVH equipment. Takes all day but what the hey!

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

The tires and wheels are OEM. Thanks for the test advice, I will try that - and will find another dealer. I was a mechanic in my youth and worked for 3 dealerships in parts, service and sales. I know how they can be. I will post back here with results.

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