Dead on road after auto stoo

[Arc Ranger]

i just turn it off whenever i start the truck and turn it on if i'm sitting for a little at long lights or RR crossing. it's not that difficult... just push a button

This. This is exactly what I do, and my one wish would be that the system would default to the off position instead of the on position. But oh well, I've basically programmed myself to just hit the button every time I turn on the truck.

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[Frenchy]

you should just continue to say it's you're "opinion"

which it is.
I dont share your views, and your facts are really not facts at all. learn the system before you start trying to add baseless facts to it.

Its ok of you dont want to believe me, it is a fact though. This image is from eff.org. like it.or not it is the truth.

There's someone in a different thread on here who actually went through and calculated it all out based on data. I'm not sure what the numbers are or if the 1 start = 10 seconds ratio is correct, but I know there is a number of seconds which is not worth it. He also went on to figure how much money would be saved if you stuck with it. Again, I'm not sure on the exact figures, but they're out there. It was many months ago so it might be hard to find given how often hating on start/stop comes up around here...

UPDATE: Found it
https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/threads/im-impressed-with.5167/post-83210

Also to help what you found here is this from edf.org

 

[Bert Webb]

It only saves money to an extent. How you might ask? Simple, 1 start up uses the same amount of fuel if you are to idle for 10 seconds. Now it doesn't sound like much but I can add up if you are always hitting all the red lights possible. A down side to it is if you hit a stop sign and it activates but then you start moving so it starts again without being stoped so therefore you used more fuel. That is why i don't like it.

I am a mechanic for the Postal service the carriers are required to shut off the Postal vehicles at every stop. That is causing extra wear and tear on the flywheel and starters which we are replacing very often since they went to this policy. I don't want to wear my flywheel or starter out prematurely for a little gain in fuel savings.

 

[Frenchy]

I am a mechanic for the Postal service the carriers are required to shut off the Postal vehicles at every stop. That is causing extra wear and tear on the flywheel and starters which we are replacing very often since they went to this policy. I don't want to wear my flywheel or starter out prematurely for a little gain in fuel savings.

You wouldnt happen to be running the old 1980's postal trucks still are you?

 

[LurchOR]

UPDATE: Found it
https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/threads/im-impressed-with.5167/post-83210

Thanks !

 

[Deleted member 1634]

I am a mechanic for the Postal service the carriers are required to shut off the Postal vehicles at every stop. That is causing extra wear and tear on the flywheel and starters which we are replacing very often since they went to this policy. I don't want to wear my flywheel or starter out prematurely for a little gain in fuel savings.

There's a difference between a vehicle which is not designed for this type of start/stop/restart action and one that is. I'd imagine the old postal trucks, or even the new ones, were not designed with this in mind. In fact, I'd imagine they were actually designed for the opposite aspect of having the engine running constantly like police cars and the like, so there's probably components beefed up in regards to that. (disclaimer: that's just a guess I'm no expert)

But our Rangers, and any vehicle equipped with start/stop, are actually designed with this in mind, so those components are designed to handle that type of abuse and additional loading. Ford didn't throw the starting system from an old mail truck in the Ranger and "hope it works". There's a lot of engineering behind the scenes that the public, or even the manufacturing technicians and field mechanics, aren't privy to.

 

[Rick - Saber]

Is it time to beat a dead horse again?

 

[Deleted member 1634]

Is it time to beat a dead horse again?

As an engineer, my favorite quote from that clip is "it turns out engineers are capable of thinking about these things". haha

 

[Tito]

With only about 200 miles of use my, Ranger shut off in a parking lot when turning and restarting from ASS. It did it again in the garage where I park. Both times it restarted manually but I have not taken it to dealer since i just use the $2.78 LED night light fix. I guess I just lost one beer..... LOL

 

[Michel Jeanneau]

There's a difference between a vehicle which is not designed for this type of start/stop/restart action and one that is. I'd imagine the old postal trucks, or even the new ones, were not designed with this in mind. In fact, I'd imagine they were actually designed for the opposite aspect of having the engine running constantly like police cars and the like, so there's probably components beefed up in regards to that. (disclaimer: that's just a guess I'm no expert)

But our Rangers, and any vehicle equipped with start/stop, are actually designed with this in mind, so those components are designed to handle that type of abuse and additional loading. Ford didn't throw the starting system from an old mail truck in the Ranger and "hope it works". There's a lot of engineering behind the scenes that the public, or even the manufacturing technicians and field mechanics, aren't privy to.

but then there is that instance when, like with the OP...it fails
No thanks....If I ever got stuck (before ASS) on a rr xing or bridge up, I had the sense of shutting my engine off with the key, and with all my prior vehicles being manuals, worst case I could always push start the things.
So no ASS for me

 

[P. A. Schilke]

There's a difference between a vehicle which is not designed for this type of start/stop/restart action and one that is. I'd imagine the old postal trucks, or even the new ones, were not designed with this in mind. In fact, I'd imagine they were actually designed for the opposite aspect of having the engine running constantly like police cars and the like, so there's probably components beefed up in regards to that. (disclaimer: that's just a guess I'm no expert)

But our Rangers, and any vehicle equipped with start/stop, are actually designed with this in mind, so those components are designed to handle that type of abuse and additional loading. Ford didn't throw the starting system from an old mail truck in the Ranger and "hope it works". There's a lot of engineering behind the scenes that the public, or even the manufacturing technicians and field mechanics, aren't privy to.

Hi Matt,

A back story, I had a friend in Engine Engineering and he showed up with an Escort with auto stop start. At that time..the idea was a flywheel with a one way clutch that kept spinning when you came to a stop and then using the inertia of the flywheel spinning would restart the car. So off we go as I wanted to see what this auto stop start was all about. Short story is that the spinning flywheel on the nose of the crankshaft engages when we took off but sheared off the front of the crankshaft. We were dead in the water.... This was long before Cell Phones, so we walked to a bank and used a pay phone to call my secretary collect and have her dispatch a Ford wrecker to tow the car. She came in a pool vehicle and picked Walt and me up. I decided then and there that Stop Start was not for me, and I am still of that belief.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[Hounddog409]

I am a mechanic for the Postal service the carriers are required to shut off the Postal vehicles at every stop. That is causing extra wear and tear on the flywheel and starters which we are replacing very often since they went to this policy. I don't want to wear my flywheel or starter out prematurely for a little gain in fuel savings.

The hardware is designed for auto stop/start. Nothing will wear out due to this feature.

Your postal truck was not designed for nor has auto S/S. Hence parts are not designed or built for this feature.

See the difference?

 

[Deleted member 1634]

Hi Matt,

A back story, I had a friend in Engine Engineering and he showed up with an Escort with auto stop start. At that time..the idea was a flywheel with a one way clutch that kept spinning when you came to a stop and then using the inertia of the flywheel spinning would restart the car. So off we go as I wanted to see what this auto stop start was all about. Short story is that the spinning flywheel on the nose of the crankshaft engages when we took off but sheared off the front of the crankshaft. We were dead in the water.... This was long before Cell Phones, so we walked to a bank and used a pay phone to call my secretary collect and have her dispatch a Ford wrecker to tow the car. She came in a pool vehicle and picked Walt and me up. I decided then and there that Stop Start was not for me, and I am still of that belief.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

You know I love your stories Phil, and that was another good one, but really?! Giving up on a concept for life because one of the first iterations failed? Pretty much every other one of your stories is all about overcoming failure and designing a better way. I guess I'm just putting my faith in the thought that we've grown and gotten better since the original idea and design, that the engineers did their job, figured out what went wrong, and made it work. Something I do everyday at my job. I'm just disappointed you seem to have such little faith in the next generation of engineers, my generation.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

You know I love your stories Phil, and that was another good one, but really?! Giving up on a concept for life because one of the first iterations failed? Pretty much every other one of your stories is all about overcoming failure and designing a better way. I guess I'm just putting my faith in the thought that we've grown and gotten better since the original idea and design, that the engineers did their job, figured out what went wrong, and made it work. Something I do everyday at my job. I'm just disappointed you seem to have such little faith in the next generation of engineers, my generation.

Hi Matt,

Not at all. When at Ford, I aligned with the Henry Ford Charter school, who had a Senior Practicum program and I took on these high school seniors and also the Ford College Graduate trainees. It was a lot of work, but the satisfaction with helping these young people grow and become young adults was some of my fondest memories. Most of my peers rejected them as they were too much work. And indeed these young folks were work, but it was a labor of love. Take this new trainee I had. Name was Kumar Glorhatra. He is now Group Vice President of Ford Product Development. I took Kumar under my wings...and I feel I had a part in this incredible person's growth.

Now to start stop. I understand the reason for this and it is the FTP, Federal Test Procedure, The stop/start was developed to address the FTP idle periods for emission testing and the resultant Fuel Economy. That is why this "feature" was developed. It has nothing to do with the vehicle owner, it has to do with publishing Fuel Economy numbers. It is also the the reason for the customer love or hate relationship. Every Mfg is doing this.... What Ford did was introduce EcoBoost. Direct injection gasoline vehicles. The resulting power output and fuel economy put the other Manufacturers on flat feet. So they scrambled to match Ford. Ford put in Stop/Start to keep up the leadership. Then we introduced the Aluminum Ford F150...now with higher Hp and lighter weight vehicles with over the top trailer tow, the competition was reeling... We also locked up the aluminum suppliers with long term contracts that still keep the competition from launching light weight vehicles. A reason why the Ranger front clip and tailgate are aluminum.

The real value to the customer for Stop/Start is questionable in my opinion. The inertial flywheel was a failure, but as you can see stop/start is a reality here and now. The reason was not for the customer, but for bragging rights for fuel economy which is rarely achieved in the real world.

Another back story, It was in 1974 and the manufacturers were required to meet the first EPA emission standards. So Ford engineers figured out what we needed to do to meet these standards. It was noted that the engine driveability was horrible as we had all these vacuum lines and PVS's (Ported Vacuum Switches). Little thermal devices. The whole engine was controlled by a fluidic computer as it were. So the engineers looked at the test procedure at the time and it was determined that the EPA testing was at a laboratory with Standard Temperature and Pressure (STP) conditions. Meaning Temperature and Pressure. So Ford came up with a switch located in the A pillar door jamb that enabled the emission system only under STP conditions. We passed certification under the law. EPA was enraged, but powerless to do anything because the emissions system met the law. So the EPA promulgated the "defeat device" regulations to stop this practice. So the vehicles of the mid 70s were horrible for driveability and the customer suffered. Fortunately we progressed to electronic engine controls and to fuel injection and driveability so improved that the carburetor is now history (side bar, I am rebuilding a 1965 Chrysler 383 two barrel carburetor on my work bench for a friend and neighbor...ah the memories). I built the first Light Truck prototype EFI engine in the history of Ford Light Truck. Hand built with a tech from Carron Industries.....Took three weeks for work the hand build the wiring harness, but the results of this were simply amazing...however that is another story

Long and rambling....Stop/start likely gains the customer vary little if any benefit, In my opinion. That is my story and I am sticking to it. However, if presented with real world scientific data to the contrary, I would rescind my position.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[ch47dmechanic]

I am a mechanic for the Postal service the carriers are required to shut off the Postal vehicles at every stop. That is causing extra wear and tear on the flywheel and starters which we are replacing very often since they went to this policy. I don't want to wear my flywheel or starter out prematurely for a little gain in fuel savings.

Well, since the vehicles USPS uses weren't engineered for that kind of operation, it would only make sense that there is more wear on those components. Your Ranger, and any other vehicle with start/stop technology was engineered for frequent starting and stoping and thus wouldn't suffer from the same wear.

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