Bucking/Surging Epidemic

[JimG_AZ]

Hot merch?

I doubt it is hot. I would be more worried about QA testing and if the part fully met specs. It is somewhat unusual that somebody went to the level of attempting to remove the Ford labeling from the part.

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[JimG_AZ]

Standard automotive purchases them from Fords supplier sans the markings. They sell it for that price because they aren’t putting an outrageous markup on it like Ford and have to compete with other aftermarket resellers. Have seen this done with other OEM’s also

Maybe so. When I looked closely at the part, I could make out some of the Ford markings. They definitely wiped the part with something to attempt to remove the Ford letting.

 

[Stevedbvik1]

Maybe so. When I looked closely at the part, I could make out some of the Ford markings. They definitely wiped the part with something to attempt to remove the Ford letting.

Like I said many oems contract with a supplier to provide them a sensor. They make the supplier be exclusive to them and not resell the sensor with ford markings on them. But they can resell the sensor without the Ford markings on them. Bosch is a huge example of this. I sold Bosch products for twenty years and saw this all the time. Bosch would put their part number and the oem number on the part. But the ones we got from Bosch only had the Bosch number on it. And they were always cheaper. Borg Warner turbos would sell Ford, Cat, John Deere turbos with the OEM logos ground off. Happens all the time.

 

[TJC]

Standard automotive purchases them from Fords supplier sans the markings. They sell it for that price because they aren’t putting an outrageous markup on it like Ford and have to compete with other aftermarket resellers. Have seen this done with other OEM’s also

They are probably purchasing in bulk over time for about $10 / unit. Now think about Ford's markup!

 

[Starjammir]

Well I replace my DPFE sensor and it fixed my problem for 100 miles. Now we are back to bucking and surging. Had a code for random misfire and misfire at startup. Thing ran like it had a cam in it, shaking all over. Not sure where to go from here. No other codes to speak of.

 

[GitRDone]

I just replaced mine today. Tbh it was a little tougher than I thought, (those little clamps suck!). I ended up resorting to the dremel after unsuccessfully trying to twist them off with Channel Locks and Vise Grips.

Honestly, even though the issue appears to be resolved with the new unit, I have become more keenly attuned to the engine rpms now and it bothers me more than I like at low speeds (6th gear at 25 mph?). Hopefully with time I will go back to obsessing about normal things like death and taxes.

 

[TJC]

I just replaced mine today. Tbh it was a little tougher than I thought, (those little clamps suck!). I ended up resorting to the dremel after unsuccessfully trying to twist them off with Channel Locks and Vise Grips.

Honestly, even though the issue appears to be resolved with the new unit, I have become more keenly attuned to the engine rpms now and it bothers me more than I like at low speeds (6th gear at 25 mph?). Hopefully with time I will go back to obsessing about normal things like death and taxes.

The shift points are ridiculously low in standard mode, better in tow mode, but they go through every gear except 9 and 10. A 6 speed would have been perfect by me.

 

[airline tech]

Well I replace my DPFE sensor and it fixed my problem for 100 miles. Now we are back to bucking and surging. Had a code for random misfire and misfire at startup. Thing ran like it had a cam in it, shaking all over. Not sure where to go from here. No other codes to speak of.

It needs to have a Live Data Monitor at (Cold Engine Start)

To pinpoint the issue:
I suspect something electrical, or fuel related
1. Monitor Crank & Cam Position sensors, one of them failing when cold (Not Syncing)
2. Fuel Pressure (Pump) & (Rail), possible leaking injector (filling the cylinder - cold soak)
A relative fuel injector flow test will show this (must have scan tool capable of the test)
3. Vacuum Leak (Intake or Head Gasket) - Worse with a cold engine and will show HIGH POSITIVE LTFT's at idle and will move towards normal at higher RPM's.
A relative compression test will show a vacuum leak (Scan Tool Test)
4. Bad Coil - Failing when cold, this is where you need to view - Mode 6 Data and see what specific cylinder has the highest misfire and possibly replace that coil & boot.
5. EGR Valve still commanded open @ Idle, need to view the EGR Valve Position as well as the DPFE sensor (voltage) reading - Note: The EGR Valve should crack open @ around 1200 -1500 RPM) and should be closed @ Idle
6. Check MAPT sensor readings - are they in spec.
7. Check all the Temp Sensors (ECT-IAT-IAT2-CHT) sensors on a cold engine are they all within a few degrees of each other.
8 Perform a EVAP system & PCV System Test - Via Scan Tool as either system can create misfires.
9. Perform a test of the VCT System, a sticking solenoid can be holding the can phaser open when this happens one bank (Intake or Exhaust) will hold the valves open and thus creates a compression issue, this can be a simple solenoid fix or a cam phaser set with timing chain.

With all the previous issues (Evap and O2 Sensor) - those codes are now cleared, you may still have a wiring issue as well.
But with the Cold Engine (Start-Up) misfire issue, would direct me to look at a Vacuum Leak and Fuel Injector (Leaking Issue) or Fuel Pressure as well as a Compression Issue.

There is another test via Scan Tool - and that is a Fuel Pressure Leak Down test, using the Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor

You have a lot going on and it needs to have a - Good Live Data Monitor when cold to view the PIDS and see if something stands out that is out of normal range.
With only misfire codes, its most likely going to be a Vacuum Leak or a Leaking Injector but an in-depth monitor will rule out other possibles mentioned above.

Monitor the Fuel Trims - What are they Reading? At Idle & 2,000 RPM's
This will possibly give some guidance.
What does the Freeze Frame Data Show @ Time Failure Code was set - View All recorded parameters it will show (Min-Max) ranges - which ones are out of range?

Other related test - Compression Test & Vaccuum Test using old school testing with gauges.
again, these can now be done with a scan tool (to at least locate the problem cylinder)
With what you have posted - Cylinder #3 appears to be it but need further data to confirm.

I know this is all hard to do, but it needs someone with a scan tool capable of viewing the PIDs and knowing what they are looking at (Are you viewing a normal parameter?)
This is what it takes for a (No Code) Misfire issue, you need to know what the normal readings should be, other than that you are - Shot-Gunning parts.

One of things that is on my (To-Do) list mainly for this thread is to (Post)
Normal Live Data Readings for various systems - to give a reference point of normal.

 

[Starjammir]

It needs to have a Live Data Monitor at (Cold Engine Start)

To pinpoint the issue:
I suspect something electrical, or fuel related
1. Monitor Crank & Cam Position sensors, one of them failing when cold (Not Syncing)
2. Fuel Pressure (Pump) & (Rail), possible leaking injector (filling the cylinder - cold soak)
A relative fuel injector flow test will show this (must have scan tool capable of the test)
3. Vacuum Leak (Intake or Head Gasket) - Worse with a cold engine and will show HIGH POSITIVE LTFT's at idle and will move towards normal at higher RPM's.
A relative compression test will show a vacuum leak (Scan Tool Test)
4. Bad Coil - Failing when cold, this is where you need to view - Mode 6 Data and see what specific cylinder has the highest misfire and possibly replace that coil & boot.
5. EGR Valve still commanded open @ Idle, need to view the EGR Valve Position as well as the DPFE sensor (voltage) reading - Note: The EGR Valve should crack open @ around 1200 -1500 RPM) and should be closed @ Idle
6. Check MAPT sensor readings - are they in spec.
7. Check all the Temp Sensors (ECT-IAT-IAT2-CHT) sensors on a cold engine are they all within a few degrees of each other.
8 Perform a EVAP system & PCV System Test - Via Scan Tool as either system can create misfires.
9. Perform a test of the VCT System, a sticking solenoid can be holding the can phaser open when this happens one bank (Intake or Exhaust) will hold the valves open and thus creates a compression issue, this can be a simple solenoid fix or a cam phaser set with timing chain.

With all the previous issues (Evap and O2 Sensor) - those codes are now cleared, you may still have a wiring issue as well.
But with the Cold Engine (Start-Up) misfire issue, would direct me to look at a Vacuum Leak and Fuel Injector (Leaking Issue) or Fuel Pressure as well as a Compression Issue.

There is another test via Scan Tool - and that is a Fuel Pressure Leak Down test, using the Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor

You have a lot going on and it needs to have a - Good Live Data Monitor when cold to view the PIDS and see if something stands out that is out of normal range.
With only misfire codes, its most likely going to be a Vacuum Leak or a Leaking Injector but an in-depth monitor will rule out other possibles mentioned above.

Monitor the Fuel Trims - What are they Reading? At Idle & 2,000 RPM's
This will possibly give some guidance.
What does the Freeze Frame Data Show @ Time Failure Code was set - View All recorded parameters it will show (Min-Max) ranges - which ones are out of range?

Other related test - Compression Test & Vaccuum Test using old school testing with gauges.
again, these can now be done with a scan tool (to at least locate the problem cylinder)
With what you have posted - Cylinder #3 appears to be it but need further data to confirm.

I know this is all hard to do, but it needs someone with a scan tool capable of viewing the PIDs and knowing what they are looking at (Are you viewing a normal parameter?)
This is what it takes for a (No Code) Misfire issue, you need to know what the normal readings should be, other than that you are - Shot-Gunning parts.

One of things that is on my (To-Do) list mainly for this thread is to (Post)
Normal Live Data Readings for various systems - to give a reference point of normal.

Funny you mention fuel rail pressure sensor. They, the dealership, found mine to be faulting and fouling out o2 sensors. Replacing both sensors tomorrow and we shall see.

 

[airline tech]

Funny you mention fuel rail pressure sensor. They, the dealership, found mine to be faulting and fouling out o2 sensors. Replacing both sensors tomorrow and we shall see.

I am hoping they have CONFIRMED the Fuel Rail Pressure sensor as faulted, and performed a circuit integrity check with a wire harness shake test.

 

[Starjammir]

I am hoping they have CONFIRMED the Fuel Rail Pressure sensor as faulted, and performed a circuit integrity check with a wire harness shake test.

Lord I hope so as I have had mice in my glove box too so I know they are around.

 

[airline tech]

Lord I hope so as I have had mice in my glove box too so I know they are around.

With all the electrical issues - That is a piece of very valuable information the tech needs to be aware of.
In order for mice to get into the glove box they have had to access the engine bay and into the windshield cowling and they might have snacked on some wiring on the way in.

I would love to pinpoint down - precisely what is inside the cab that they are so attracted to as this is a popular entry point, so they are smelling something that they go the extra mile to get to.

The only thing I can think of would be the material of the cabin filter or the various smells it has absorbed. Like (Hot Food) in the cab and circulating air traps the smells in the filter.
They are also attracted to the wiring itself (soy based) insulation, but they have access to that in the engine bay (however) mostly extra protected wire looms whereas the interior of the cab has more uncovered wiring (open looms) is their sniffer more sensitive to that - IDK

 

[GitRDone]

With all the electrical issues - That is a piece of very valuable information the tech needs to be aware of.
In order for mice to get into the glove box they have had to access the engine bay and into the windshield cowling and they might have snacked on some wiring on the way in.

I would love to pinpoint down - precisely what is inside the cab that they are so attracted to as this is a popular entry point, so they are smelling something that they go the extra mile to get to.

The only thing I can think of would be the material of the cabin filter or the various smells it has absorbed. Like (Hot Food) in the cab and circulating air traps the smells in the filter.
They are also attracted to the wiring itself (soy based) insulation, but they have access to that in the engine bay (however) mostly extra protected wire looms whereas the interior of the cab has more uncovered wiring (open looms) is their sniffer more sensitive to that - IDK

Maybe they are just trying to find the warmest place to nest?

 

[Starjammir]

Maybe they are just trying to find the warmest place to nest?

Fuel sensor didn't fix it. They are lost

 

[airline tech]

Fuel sensor didn't fix it. They are lost

Are they doing the wiring checks?
All sensors that have been replaced tie together in the wiring circuit, you have to look deep into it

I highly suspect the issue is on the (Fuse #8) power feed

Fuse #8 - Power Feed
Evap Vapor Blocking Valve-Evap Can Vent Valve-Evap Can Purge Valve-VCT Sol 1 & 2 and HO2S11 & HO2S12 (Heaters)
So,
the O2 Sensor Heaters and the Evap Vent Valve are on this circuit (12-Volt) Fused Power


Now we move to the VREF Circuit (5-Volt)

MAPT-Fuel Rail Press Sensor - Eng Oil Press - Wastegate Actuator and DPFE

The Tie In:
Signal Return
MAPT-Fuel Rail Press Sensor-Eng Oil Press Sensor-Wastegate Actuator
and
Signal Return:
DPFE-Ex Press Sensor-EGR Temp Sensor-CHT-ECT, and the HO2S12 (Heater)

So, you have 12-Volt power feeding the (Downstream) O2 sensor, and the signal return spliced into the circuit with the DPFE.
So, if a shorted circuit on this Fuse #8 power feed, which the tech already found (Evap Vent Solenoid) (Repair)
then this circuit can back feed into the DPFE.
Pass through the DPFE and into the VREF circuit for the Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor.

I highly suspect that is the issue 12-Volt power is cross feeding into the 5-Volt VREF circuit, that is the possible tie in for all issues and give false reporting of data to shot-gun parts at it.

A Indepth wire check needs to be done and check the Fuse #8 Power Feed and the 5-Volt VREF and all the signal returns for wire integrity way too many parts being thrown at it without a proper wiring diagnostic.
With the information you have provided and the parts that have been replaced thus far, leads me to this (It's in the wiring) and its most likely damage by a mouse.

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