Bucking/Surging Epidemic

[AzScorpion]

Interesting...I get the impression it's the other sensor (cheaper one) that everyone's replacing as a fix...

IDK but when I first saw this I kept seeing this part # being mentioned. Then when I went to buy it it was on national backorder so I figured it must be the one because every member here bought one. lol

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[airline tech]

I think at this point, since it is a no code issue, lets dig into the PIDs for both the DPFE and EGR, run live data with Forscan while you drive or even in garage at idle, 1500 RPM , 2500 RPM. I will find and post Factory Spec PID's on what they should be.
Since most of the issues are fixed with the DPFE, focus on those.
Moisture appears to be a big factor getting inside the sensor, most likely due to heat and cooling water droplets.
Since some have described Bucking, Surging, Misfire all at light throttle, I think we can come up with a duplicate (if you see this PID reading) this and it should be reading this verified fix.

So, If you are currently having an issue, please post your Forscan PIDs relating to the DPFE feedback sensor and EGR, please include Engine RPM and TPS.
This will help locate exactly what the sensor is doing, but not generating a code.
I will put togerher a PID (Watch List) and post soon.

 

[seasprite]

I think at this point, since it is a no code issue, lets dig into the PIDs for both the DPFE and EGR, run live data with Forscan while you drive or even in garage at idle, 1500 RPM , 2500 RPM. I will find and post Factory Spec PID's on what they should be.
Since most of the issues are fixed with the DPFE, focus on those.
Moisture appears to be a big factor getting inside the sensor, most likely due to heat and cooling water droplets.
Since some have described Bucking, Surging, Misfire all at light throttle, I think we can come up with a duplicate (if you see this PID reading) this and it should be reading this verified fix.

So, If you are currently having an issue, please post your Forscan PIDs relating to the DPFE feedback sensor and EGR, please include Engine RPM and TPS.
This will help locate exactly what the sensor is doing, but not generating a code.
I will put togerher a PID (Watch List) and post soon.

Well, just finished reading this entire thread and don't think this is the issue I'm having since I'm not having any bucking or surging issues. It also seems to be mainly 19 and 20 year Rangers having this issue at the moment. At least every time I remember to check the year when someone posted they replaced it. Someone did mention the o2 sensor in this thread and I'm was thinking about looking at that. My understanding is we have the wide band o2s and I'm going to have to do research on those because my understanding is they don't switch like the old school o2s.

As for those having issues with the water in the sensor it will probably return because one of the by products of combustion is h2o and I believe that when the weather is cold or even maybe a cold engine, the exhaust gas is condensing in the sensor. Like in the mornings when first start the truck and see water dripping from the weep holes in the exhaust.

I've already see some of you are saying its coming back. Maybe try drying the sensor out and see if it returns to normal operation. If you have forscan I would like to see before and after pids that @airline tech mentioned.

For those who want to know what I'm going through.
https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/threads/ping-when-cold.24736/

It seems to me the solution is how to keep the exhaust gas from condensing in the sensor?

 

[seasprite]

Since I had nothing better to do on my way to church today, I went ahead and grabbed some data from EGR pids today.
Understand my truck does not have the bucking and surging so maybe use it as known good.

Seems from reading this thread a lot of people have the issue around 30mph and 50mph, so I took my screen shots at those speeds.

30mph

50mph

 

[BladeRanger]

Since I had nothing better to do on my way to church today, I went ahead and grabbed some data from EGR pids today.
Understand my truck does not have the bucking and surging so maybe use it as known good.

Seems from reading this thread a lot of people have the issue around 30mph and 50mph, so I took my screen shots at those speeds.

Where did you download the forscan? I haven't had a chance to install mine and maybe it's a good time to do it.

30mph

50mph

 

[BladeRanger]

Not sure what happen to my reply, where did you down load your forscan?

 

[seasprite]

Not sure what happen to my reply, where did you down load your forscan?

https://forscan.org/download.html

 

[Msfitoy]

IDK but when I first saw this I kept seeing this part # being mentioned. Then when I went to buy it it was on national backorder so I figured it must be the one because every member here bought one. lol

The shipping was cheaper for both than one...expecting both parts next week...

 

[Msfitoy]

Is there a comprehensive EGR valve replacement how to posted? I see 26 pages of lot of different information about two different valves...where are they located and how to replace them...

 

[airline tech]

Here is the manuals for both the EGR Valve and DPFE.
In my experience the EGR Valve itself rarely fails, but the sensors do.
Sometimes by nomenclature the EGR system parts get mixed up with the actual names.
From my research the DPFE Sensor is a common failure part for years, due to the inherent nature of the exhaust gas to contain moisture, thus damaging the sensor.
The Service Manuals mainly just have you do wire checks for this system.

Here is a good video on testing, but it is an older system and some of the parts Paul talks about in the video are not installed on our Rangers.
I am posting this to give you a basic understanding of the system.
The Poster of the video is Scanner Danner, he is one of the best on YouTube.
I am planning on getting out Forscan and see what it can do with the EGR system.
Since the Ranger is not vacuum controlled, you will have to command via Forscan the EGR valve to open and watch the DPFE sensor voltage (using Forscan)
So basically, simplify the testing procedure from the video and adapt it to the Ranger.

Ford Ranger EGR Flow Trouble Code P0401 (DPFE fault) - YouTube

Note this is for an older Ranger, but the basic test procedure is the same) except how the EGR Valve is opened. (Our Ranger it is Electronically) - (Not Vacuum) and the voltage specs in the manual are different.

 

[Msfitoy]

Here is the manuals for both the EGR Valve and DPFE.
In my experience the EGR Valve itself rarely fails, but the sensors do.
Sometimes by nomenclature the EGR system parts get mixed up with the actual names.
From my research the DPFE Sensor is a common failure part for years, due to the inherent nature of the exhaust gas to contain moisture, thus damaging the sensor.
The Service Manuals mainly just have you do wire checks for this system.

Here is a good video on testing, but it is an older system and some of the parts Paul talks about in the video are not installed on our Rangers.
I am posting this to give you a basic understanding of the system.
The Poster of the video is Scanner Danner, he is one of the best on YouTube.
I am planning on getting out Forscan and see what it can do with the EGR system.
Since the Ranger is not vacuum controlled, you will have to command via Forscan the EGR valve to open and watch the DPFE sensor voltage (using Forscan)
So basically, simplify the testing procedure from the video and adapt it to the Ranger.

Ford Ranger EGR Flow Trouble Code P0401 (DPFE fault) - YouTube

Note this is for an older Ranger, but the basic test procedure is the same) except how the EGR Valve is opened. (Our Ranger it is Electronically) - (Not Vacuum) and the voltage specs in the manual are different.

This is very helpful...thanks for putting this information out for me and everyone...

 

[Msfitoy]

Ah looks like shipping is $10...should I buy both to combine shipping?

Anyone report replacing the EGR Vacuum control LB5Z-9J433-B in conjunction with KA1Z-5L200A sensor help the overall bucking condition? Are both necessary for the fix?

Well...I'll answer my own question and settle this once and for all...I finally got around to replacing this part as my low speed bogging/shuttering/throttle tip-in stumble/general pain the ass parking lot drivability got extremely shitty...did anyone mention this part is a Fnpainintheass to reach?! You can reach it, you can see it...but you can't see and reach it at the same time to put a plier on the clamps!!! Not to mention having to stand on a stool and reach over on top of the engine without anything to brace while wondering where's the blood coming from!!! After EGR DFPE sensor replacement, all the stupid low speed engine behavior went away! I can set the cruise to 20mph and she just purrrrs away...

Here's the confusion regarding these two parts numbers...THEY'RE ESSENTIALLY THE SAME PART! One has the full clamps/hose/bracket assembly $80 ( LB5Z-9J433-B) while the other cheaper one $12 (KA1Z-5L200A) is the sensor only...why hasn't anyone mention this? Not knowing the difference, I ordered both believing they were TWO separate sensors that were needed...The Good news is that I now have a spare sensor to mount onto the old assembly...

Msfitoy is driving smooth as when she was 20 something...?

 

[MrBusses]

Well...I'll answer my own question and settle this once and for all...I finally got around to replacing this part as my low speed bogging/shuttering/throttle tip-in stumble/general pain the ass parking lot drivability got extremely shitty...did anyone mention this part is a Fnpainintheass to reach?! You can reach it, you can see it...but you can't see and reach it at the same time to put a plier on the clamps!!! Not to mention having to stand on a stool and reach over on top of the engine without anything to brace while wondering where's the blood coming from!!! After EGR valve replacement, all the stupid low speed engine behavior went away! I can set the cruise to 20mph and she just purrrrs away...

Here's the confusion regarding these two parts numbers...THEY'RE ESSENTIALLY THE SAME PART! One has the full clamps/hose/bracket assembly $80 ( LB5Z-9J433-B) while the other cheaper one $12 (KA1Z-5L200A) is the sensor only...why didn't anyone mention this? The Good news is that I now have a spare sensor to mount onto the old assembly...

Msfitoy is driving smooth as when she was 20 something...?

Did you replaced the EGR valve or the DPFE sensor? The parts you list are for the sensor but you say egr valve replacment.


Mine has a similar issue and I was going to perform this TSB. Did you have this done yet?

 

[Msfitoy]

Did you replaced the EGR valve or the DPFE sensor? The parts you list are for the sensor but you say egr valve replacment.


Mine has a similar issue and I was going to perform this TSB. Did you have this done yet?

As I mentioned, the two parts are basically the same...one has complete hose/bracket and sensor and the other is sensor by itself...I think the valve is a large part and separate from the sensor...DIY in garage took less than an hour...

 

[airline tech]

As far as the DPFE sensor- yes you can get that part (2) ways - with or without the hoses attached.
This is due to the hoses themselves can become clogged up and by description of others replacing it - the clamps on the sensor side (hoses) do not easily come off.

The EGR valve is a completely separate part in the system and is somehow being confused as the DPFE sensor.

They tie together in the system operation- as the DPFE sensor is a feedback sensor on the open position of the EGR valve- thus it basically is part of the control of it.

So, if the DPFE is reading improperly- then the EGR valve will also be in the wrong commanded position- creating the bucking / surging issues.
There are other things in the EGR system that will create issues similar but this specific issue appears to be a no code issue- the DPFE sensor appears to be partially failing (improper) sense of flow - (no code)
The system is designed to throw a code if the flow is determined to be below / above programmed thresholds.
But for some reason- it is not picking up the DPFE sensor is actually reading inaccurate and tripping a code.
You can monitor and test the system as I previously posted and plan of hooking up Forscan for normal readings on the DPFE sensor voltage.
That voltage is the key to this issue.

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