2023?

[2.7EcoBoost]

What on earth are you smoking? Chargers cost $100-$1000 and even in the worst situation it shouldn't cost more than $1000 to add 240v power to a garage if one doesn't have it already.

I understand your point, but for example.....I have two licensed teenage kids with cars. Along with my wife and I. That's 4 240v chargers that potentially are needed for daily life. Imagine a whole town with 2 or 3 cars drawing 240v during the middle of summer with AC etc. We are not equipped for that. It is political posturing. We need to put the horse in front of the buggy here, not the other way around. I would welcome an electric truck with a 250 mile minimum (400 should be minimum) range, but we have a lot of work and red tape to cut before we're anywhere near realistic. This PHEV Ranger and other alternatives are the most feasible way until we're ready for a full EV world. It'll take time......

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[D Fresh]

I understand your point, but for example.....I have two licensed teenage kids with cars. Along with my wife and I. That's 4 240v chargers that potentially are needed for daily life. Imagine a whole town with 2 or 3 cars drawing 240v during the middle of summer with AC etc. We are not equipped for that. It is political posturing. We need to put the horse in front of the buggy here, not the other way around. I would welcome an electric truck with a 250 mile minimum range, but we have a lot of work and red tape to cut before we're anywhere near realistic. This PHEV Ranger and other alternatives are the most feasible way until we're ready for a full EV world. It'll take time......

I didn't say anything about our nation's infrastructure being able to sustain the entire population charging their cars at once.

Simply that dude's cost estimates are way out of line.

Food for thought though. I'm sure your family doesn't use a full tank of gas in each of it's four cars daily, requiring them each to be filled up everyday. Why would you need to charge 4 electric cars every night.

Also, not sure if you understand what a PHEV even is. There is absolutely no difference between charging a PHEV and a full electric. Other than capacity and, time to reach full charge.

I'm personally thinking the opposite of most of you. My next new vehicle will be a V8 Mustang, hopefully baby 'Zilla over Coyote.

 

[DukeCanBuildit]

Having a plug-in charging system available for use costs $25,000 - $100,000 or more depending on the type and labor, and that's just for one port!

What on earth are you smoking? Chargers cost $100-$1000 and even in the worst situation it shouldn't cost more than $1000 to add 240v power to a garage if one doesn't have it already.

I have to agree with Doug here - those numbers sound like they came from the oil industry lobby. Chargers range from $800-$2,000, then you have some possible service upgrade costs, at least a pony panel for the charger, a lot of expensive wire, a qualified electrician, a safety inspection if required in your jurisdiction, the utility company to disconnect at the pole if required, and final installation of the unit, etc.

Expect to spend $2,500 to $4,000. If more than one charger is desired, a multi port system should be considered - it will not cost $4,000 per port.

You might not need multiple chargers but it will prevent a lot of anxiety and arguments. We don’t top up our gas tanks every night but people will want to top up their batteries every night - totally unnecessary as you could alternate cars every two or three days.

 

[Vitis805]

What on earth are you smoking? Chargers cost $100-$1000 and even in the worst situation it shouldn't cost more than $1000 to add 240v power to a garage if one doesn't have it already.

What you are describing is a portable household inverter. This device assumes you have a garage or someplace to plug it in. If you read my post, you should have gathered that I was talking about an actual charge point. The ones you see at some major chain parking lots or garages in downtown areas. These cost 25k -100k (250k for a Tesla Supercharger) to install. I don’t see landlords ponying up to have these points installed without enormous government subsidies. These charge points are the only option for people that live in apartment complexes. I’m not even getting into the issue of whether our grid can handle millions of cars being plugged in @ 5 p.m. when people get home from work.


EDIT: Sources
Typical chargepoint with cost
Tesla Supercharger cost (2nd paragraph, 4th sentence)

 

[D Fresh]

What you are describing is a portable household inverter. This device assumes you have a garage or someplace to plug it in. If you read my post, you should have gathered that I was talking about an actual charge point. The ones you see at some major chain parking lots or garages in downtown areas. These cost 25k -100k (250k for a Tesla Supercharger) to install. I don’t see landlords ponying up to have these points installed without enormous government subsidies. These charge points are the only option for people that live in apartment complexes. I’m not even getting into the issue of whether our grid can handle millions of cars being plugged in @ 5 p.m. when people get home from work.


EDIT: Sources
Typical chargepoint with cost
Tesla Supercharger cost (2nd paragraph, 4th sentence)

An inverter converts DC into AC. That's not what I'm talking about at all. We are not talking about solar here, which is the only use for a "household inverter." Where do you live that power is transmitted to your home via DC?

Why would it be a landlord's responsibility to charge your car? Do they fuel your current car?

I'm not even gonna get into the fact that a person living in an apartment shouldn't be spending their money on a new electric car.

 

[Vitis805]

An inverter converts DC into AC. That's not what I'm talking about at all. We are not talking about solar here, which is the only use for a "household inverter." Where do you live that power is transmitted to your home via DC?

Why would it be a landlord's responsibility to charge your car? Do they fuel your current car?

I'm not even gonna get into the fact that a person living in an apartment shouldn't be spending their money on a new electric car.

I think you have completely missed my point and have gone off onto an unrelated tangent.

I quoted them1rb when he was speaking about the inevitable move to only electric vehicles being sold, such is our current political heading. When people that live in apartment complexes are faced with only being able to purchase electric vehicles, how do you suppose they charge their car? Landlords do not fuel your car, or wash you or your clothes, but they typically provide these as basic functions of a home. Hence why I mentioned a charging point, because like a washing machine, the apartment complexes can charge for it's use. Installing a charging point however is going to come at great cost, much more than an entire laundry room even. When electric car charging becomes a basic need, people in apartment complexes (landlords and renters) face a huge problem. That's it. That's my point.

 

[D Fresh]

I think you have completely missed my point and have gone off onto an unrelated tangent.

I quoted them1rb when he was speaking about the inevitable move to only electric vehicles being sold, such is our current political heading. When people that live in apartment complexes are faced with only being able to purchase electric vehicles, how do you suppose they charge their car? Landlords do not fuel your car, or wash you or your clothes, but they typically provide these as basic functions of a home. Hence why I mentioned a charging point, because like a washing machine, the apartment complexes can charge for it's use. Installing a charging point however is going to come at great cost, much more than an entire laundry room even. When electric car charging becomes a basic need, people in apartment complexes (landlords and renters) face a huge problem. That's it. That's my point.

Why do they provide laundry facilities or in apt. hookups, though?

Because the market demands it, and they can up their rent/fees to actually make up for the costs. IF landlords/complexes WANT to install chargepoints they CAN. And they CAN charge whatever they want for it's use. At a certain point, when the market demands it, they'll have to in order keep tenants. And they'll still recoup the cost by increased rent or fees.

There probably won't come a day where you can only buy electric. I'm sure that we will see the day all NEW cars are electric, but again, that's not really a problem for most apartment dwellers. Internal combustion engines aren't going to magically dissapear.

Charging access is a nonproblem. Supporting the switch with our failing infrastructure is a problem.

 

[D Fresh]

I would like to hope that in the future, when having to charge electric cars at home or at work or wherever is common practice (instead of fueling up on the go like today), that the infrastructure of charging ports would become less costly. Since it would no longer be a specialized item/industry. Maybe there will be companies that specialize in their installation and location, like there are companies specialized in gas stations today. The logistics of parking and pricing and all that would be different of course. But maybe you could pull into your apartment complex and plug into an ExxonMobil charging port for the night.

Literally just throwing out interesting thoughts I'm having to promote conversation. Maybe we could brainstorm and solve this issue and become heroes! haha

I'm almost certain this will be case. We will see an entirely new industry pop up in our lifetimes.

 

[Texasota]

I'm almost certain this will be case. We will see an entirely new industry pop up in our lifetimes.

Yes, we will. Capitalism is truly amazing.

 

[DukeCanBuildit]

I think you have completely missed my point and have gone off onto an unrelated tangent.

I quoted them1rb when he was speaking about the inevitable move to only electric vehicles being sold, such is our current political heading. When people that live in apartment complexes are faced with only being able to purchase electric vehicles, how do you suppose they charge their car? Landlords do not fuel your car, or wash you or your clothes, but they typically provide these as basic functions of a home. Hence why I mentioned a charging point, because like a washing machine, the apartment complexes can charge for it's use. Installing a charging point however is going to come at great cost, much more than an entire laundry room even. When electric car charging becomes a basic need, people in apartment complexes (landlords and renters) face a huge problem. That's it. That's my point.

There is no huge problem that will have to be faced. There are independent charging ports sprouting up in many places with far more to come. Homeowners don’t really need one - it’s convenient, but not necessary.

Why do you think apartments will need them? Apartment buildings don’t currently have gasoline pumps on-premise for tenants to top up their tank every night. On-premise charging is not necessary.

 

[VAMike]

Why do you think apartments will need them? Apartment buildings don’t currently have gasoline pumps on-premise for tenants to top up their tank every night. On-premise charging is not necessary.

You can't charge a car as fast as you can put gas in it. So the model of "everybody spends a few minutes a week at the gas station" simply doesn't work for electric cars. There a lot of ways that the problem might be solved in the future, but it's not solved yet.

(This is not to suggest that there's a reason to avoid electric cars in the many situations where they already make sense, only to acknowledge that they are not yet a complete/direct replacement for fossil fuel cars.)

 

[quangdog]

I'm *very* interested in a PHEV Ranger. My prior vehicle was a hybrid escape, and the drivetrain on it was bulletproof (with solid regular maintenance I performed myself). I sold it at 245k miles when I bought the Ranger, and still see it on the roads in my neighborhood from time to time.

My wife's last 2 cars have been the PHEV version of the C-Max. I installed a Level II charger in my garage (total cost was around $400) and we didn't buy a tank of gas for her first C-Max until the car got annoyed with how old the gas was (9 months? 1 year?) in the tank and forced the engine to run to burn it so it could get some fresh fuel.

I'm fortunate in that my daily work commute is quite short (3ish miles one way) and I already have a 240v Level II charger, so I'd absolutely love being able to get to and from work on electric-only drive... but having the power to haul stuff, tow, play in the mountains offroad, etc would make a PHEV Ranger at the very top of my shopping list.

When I bought my '19 lariat I believed I'd not be interested in a new vehicle for at least 5 years. Probably more like 8 or 10.... but I'd jump to the front of the line for a PHEV Ranger if they brought one to the NA market.

 

[DukeCanBuildit]

You can't charge a car as fast as you can put gas in it. So the model of "everybody spends a few minutes a week at the gas station" simply doesn't work for electric cars. There a lot of ways that the problem might be solved in the future, but it's not solved yet.

(This is not to suggest that there's a reason to avoid electric cars in the many situations where they already make sense, only to acknowledge that they are not yet a complete/direct replacement for fossil fuel cars.)

I completely agree that charge time needs to dramatically improve and it will. I just think that it will be accomplished before we hit critical mass.

In the meantime, we‘ll have a mix of gas guzzlers, hybrids, plug-in hybrids, low and high range EVs, slow, fast, and quick charge stations, as well as everything in between. All needs will have to be met.

 

[DukeCanBuildit]

I'm *very* interested in a PHEV Ranger. My prior vehicle was a hybrid escape, and the drivetrain on it was bulletproof (with solid regular maintenance I performed myself). I sold it at 245k miles when I bought the Ranger, and still see it on the roads in my neighborhood from time to time.

My wife's last 2 cars have been the PHEV version of the C-Max. I installed a Level II charger in my garage (total cost was around $400) and we didn't buy a tank of gas for her first C-Max until the car got annoyed with how old the gas was (9 months? 1 year?) in the tank and forced the engine to run to burn it so it could get some fresh fuel.

I'm fortunate in that my daily work commute is quite short (3ish miles one way) and I already have a 240v Level II charger, so I'd absolutely love being able to get to and from work on electric-only drive... but having the power to haul stuff, tow, play in the mountains offroad, etc would make a PHEV Ranger at the very top of my shopping list.

When I bought my '19 lariat I believed I'd not be interested in a new vehicle for at least 5 years. Probably more like 8 or 10.... but I'd jump to the front of the line for a PHEV Ranger if they brought one to the NA market.

Haha - I never thought I’d hear a story about a car suffering the same woes as my lawnmower at the cottage. I’m often too lazy to cut the lawn myself, so I sometimes hire the local guy to do it. The gas is old and tired by the following spring.

Note to self: buy fuel stabilizer this spring!

 

[RedlandRanger]

I'm *very* interested in a PHEV Ranger. My prior vehicle was a hybrid escape, and the drivetrain on it was bulletproof (with solid regular maintenance I performed myself). I sold it at 245k miles when I bought the Ranger, and still see it on the roads in my neighborhood from time to time.

My wife's last 2 cars have been the PHEV version of the C-Max. I installed a Level II charger in my garage (total cost was around $400) and we didn't buy a tank of gas for her first C-Max until the car got annoyed with how old the gas was (9 months? 1 year?) in the tank and forced the engine to run to burn it so it could get some fresh fuel.

I'm fortunate in that my daily work commute is quite short (3ish miles one way) and I already have a 240v Level II charger, so I'd absolutely love being able to get to and from work on electric-only drive... but having the power to haul stuff, tow, play in the mountains offroad, etc would make a PHEV Ranger at the very top of my shopping list.

When I bought my '19 lariat I believed I'd not be interested in a new vehicle for at least 5 years. Probably more like 8 or 10.... but I'd jump to the front of the line for a PHEV Ranger if they brought one to the NA market.

I'm in EXACTLY the same boat. I planned on keeping this Ranger for quite some time - last one I had for 14 years. BUT - if they came out with a PHEV Ranger with specs as they were talking about, (HP, Torque, MPG) I'd be hard pressed not to pull the trigger - if they put in the onboard generator, it would be a slam dunk for me.

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