The Big Oil Brand Judgement!!

[lariat]

Let's see some numbers and independent tests.

This is straight from Amsoil.

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[Amsoil guy]

You might find your Brain there if you look hard enough. Just take time to look through and you will find that Motul has been doing this for much longer that Scamoil and has no problem proving it. They also have backing from various Auto Manufacturers across the World including Ford. I have yet to find a single vehicle manufacturer that backs Amsoil and that should say quite a bit.

There is a reason many go to certain name brands for Engine Oil. It's usually thanks to various vehicle manufacturers backing them. Amsoil is not one of those brands that is backed.

Mercedes in Ontario buys it by the skid load.
I ask this genuinely, what is it about Amsoil that you find is a scam?

 

[Frenchy]

Dude, do you even realize this is meaningless? I went to the website, it told me the history. What's the take away? What am I supposed to understand about Amsoil by looking at Motul's website? Adding a company's logo to a website doesn't mean jack.

Let's see some numbers and independent tests. All I've heard so far is that you think an oil company using a more expensive processing to produce a higher quality oil is a rip off. That's like saying Mercedes makes trash cars because it's more expensive than a Corolla. It's a weird take and even weirder hill to die on.

Meaningless you say? Keep in mind that if no Vehicle Manufacturer in the World is Backing Amsoil, then that should be a Red Flag. Motul, Mobil, Pennzoil, Valvoline, Castrol and Shell all have Vehicle Manufacturer Backing. Why do they have backing of the many vehicle manufacturers across the world? Because they made sure to keep up with the API and ACEA(European standard) that vehicles are requiring. If Amsoil was so good, then vehicle manufacturers would have no problems backing it.

Keep in mind that this particular thread isn't a Amsoil vs the rest. It's a what oil are you going for thread meant to help others on what brand others are going for. I myself have had no problems using Castrol, Mobil, Valvoline and Ford Motocraft (honestly not too sure who makes that particular one right off). Now here I am going with Motul. Why did I choose Motul? Simply for the fact that they seem to be the only brand out there that is still catering to not just the new stuff, but also the old stuff. They understand that a vehicle that requires Engine Oil with an API Rating of SL is not going to run as efficiently with an Engine Oil with an API Rating of SP. They also understand that regardless of the vehicle make and model, that you should still follow the vehicle manufacturers recommended oil change intervals. Why do they recommend that? To cover their ass mainly. But also for the fact that all vehicle manufacturers out there do testing to find the best option for engine longevity while trying to meet longer intervals.

Does this mean that I thing all the others are horrible and everyone should switch to Motul right this second? Absolutely not. But if they want to be curious and ask, I have no problems answering any said questions about it to the best of my knowledge.

 

[RuggedRanger]

Meaningless you say? Keep in mind that if no Vehicle Manufacturer in the World is Backing Amsoil, then that should be a Red Flag. Motul, Mobil, Pennzoil, Valvoline, Castrol and Shell all have Vehicle Manufacturer Backing. Why do they have backing of the many vehicle manufacturers across the world? Because they made sure to keep up with the API and ACEA(European standard) that vehicles are requiring. If Amsoil was so good, then vehicle manufacturers would have no problems backing it.

Keep in mind that this particular thread isn't a Amsoil vs the rest. It's a what oil are you going for thread meant to help others on what brand others are going for. I myself have had no problems using Castrol, Mobil, Valvoline and Ford Motocraft (honestly not too sure who makes that particular one right off). Now here I am going with Motul. Why did I choose Motul? Simply for the fact that they seem to be the only brand out there that is still catering to not just the new stuff, but also the old stuff. They understand that a vehicle that requires Engine Oil with an API Rating of SL is not going to run as efficiently with an Engine Oil with an API Rating of SP. They also understand that regardless of the vehicle make and model, that you should still follow the vehicle manufacturers recommended oil change intervals. Why do they recommend that? To cover their ass mainly. But also for the fact that all vehicle manufacturers out there do testing to find the best option for engine longevity while trying to meet longer intervals.

Does this mean that I thing all the others are horrible and everyone should switch to Motul right this second? Absolutely not. But if they want to be curious and ask, I have no problems answering any said questions about it to the best of my knowledge.

Putting a company's logo on a website doesn't mean the company is backing them. It doesn't even give any sort of context around what they'd be backing or what they like about that product versus any other product.

Other companies try to put the company's logo that I work on their websites all the time because we buy something from them to fill some niche situation that would cost more for us to build it in-house. It doesn't mean they make a superior product compared to other vendors we evaluated, it means they struck the right balance for what our particular needs were -- at that particular moment in time -- during the evaluation process. We've purposely gone away from technically better products that we found because of something small, like the chosen vendor had better documentation available... or because they had larger customer base and we felt comfortable going with a more established company versus a start-up that might be gone after a year.

There is simply no quantifiable measurement of quality through branded logos placed onto a website.

 

[Frenchy]

Mercedes in Ontario buys it by the skid load.
I ask this genuinely, what is it about Amsoil that you find is a scam?

Let's see here.......

#1 none of their oil actually meets any API or ACEA(European standard) specification.

#2 no vehicle manufacturer in the world backs them

#3 the price you pay for the junk they sell is ridiculous...... Average price per quart from Amsoil is $15 and sometimes more. Everyone else is lower than that(with the exception of Royal Purple and Lucas) with their Synthetic alone.

#4 those that try to claim that other oils are not superior tend to forget that other manufacturers are backing them.

As a side note, a dealership buying it simply means the dealership is buying it. Not the manufacturer. It would be the same idea if I tried to say the local Ford and Nissan dealer is buying it by the pallet........

 

[Frenchy]

Putting a company's logo on a website doesn't mean the company is backing them. It doesn't even give any sort of context around what they'd be backing or what they like about that product versus any other product.

Other companies try to put the company's logo that I work on their websites all the time because we buy something from them to fill some niche situation that would cost more for us to build it in-house. It doesn't mean they make a superior product compared to other vendors we evaluated, it means they struck the right balance for what our particular needs were -- at that particular moment in time -- during the evaluation process. We've purposely gone away from technically better products that we found because of something small, like the chosen vendor had better documentation available... or because they had larger customer base and we felt comfortable going with a more established company versus a start-up that might be gone after a year.

There is simply no quantifiable measurement of quality through branded logos placed onto a website.

It is clear that you came here to boast your lovely ego and the toxic relationship you have with Amsoil.

Do yourself a favor and go find a vehicle manufacturer that is backing Amsoil. I'm sure you won't find one.

Also keep in mind that just because a dealership stocks it doesn't mean that the manufacturer backs it.

 

[RuggedRanger]

It is clear that you came here to boast your lovely ego and the toxic relationship you have with Amsoil.

Do yourself a favor and go find a vehicle manufacturer that is backing Amsoil. I'm sure you won't find one.

Also keep in mind that just because a dealership stocks it doesn't mean that the manufacturer backs it.

That's the conclusion? I'm a shill for Amsoil? ?

@Amsoil guy yo dog... apparently ya'll owe me some money!

 

[RuggedRanger]

This is straight from Amsoil. Is there's something here we need to know about that's so different than any other band of 5W30? BTW: The so-called test you shared is beyond embarrassing in terms of anything that resembles a controlled test but that's ok, Bro. As long as you believe in it, you are entitled to use whatever brand of oil you wish. But seriously, that test is a joke.

It helps to have some kind of comparison matrix to look at. Here's the Top 5 oil producers and their comparable specs (according to ChatGPT).

To me and my admittedly very rudimentary knowledge of oil, I don't see any major red flags... although it does appear that Amsoil performs better overall where it counts.

Look, I originally came onto this thread saying that I use Amsoil because they are actually producing a true Group 4 true synthetic while everyone else is a Group 3 partial synthetic.

The argument -- as I see it -- isn't about whether or not Amsoil is better per se because we can niggle over brand names until the sun comes up, but the argument is whether or not Group 4 is better than Group 3.

And I can't find a single claim anywhere that says a Group 3 oil outperforms a Group 4.

The American Petroleum Institute which created this categorization system identifies Group 4 as superior to Group 3.

So, if you got a problem with the API, take it up with them.

In the mean time, I'm not going to lose any sleep over the fact that I spent $1,200 over a 10 year period compared to $600. Actually, I'll sleep better knowing that whatever happens to my engine, it won't be because I tried to save a buck on oil.

* edit: updated image to clarify HT/HS

 

[Frenchy]

View attachment 220899

It helps to have some kind of comparison matrix to look at. Here's the Top 5 oil producers and their comparable specs (according to ChatGPT).

To me and my admittedly very rudimentary knowledge of oil, I don't see any major red flags... although it does appear that Amsoil performs better overall where it counts.

Look, I originally came onto this thread saying that I use Amsoil because they are actually producing a true Group 4 true synthetic while everyone else is a Group 3 partial synthetic.

The argument -- as I see it -- isn't about whether or not Amsoil is better per se because we can niggle over brand names until the sun comes up, but the argument is whether or not Group 4 is better than Group 3.

And I can't find a single claim anywhere that says a Group 3 oil outperforms a Group 4.

The American Petroleum Institute which created this categorization system identifies Group 4 as superior to Group 3.

So, if you got a problem with the API, take it up with them.

In the mean time, I'm not going to lose any sleep over the fact that I spent $1,200 over a 10 year period compared to $600. Actually, I'll sleep better knowing that whatever happens to my engine, it won't be because I tried to save a buck on oil.

Besides documentation from Amsoil, please show proof of other manufacturers selling a Full Synthetic Oil that is supposedly not a Full Synthetic....... I'll wait.......

 

[RuggedRanger]

Besides documentation from Amsoil, please show proof of other manufacturers selling a Full Synthetic Oil that is supposedly not a Full Synthetic....... I'll wait.......

JFC man, you're insufferable.

It's not a massive conspiracy, so you can go look it up yourself.

I just ran a rudimentary Google search:

• Mobile 1: Group III
• Castrol: Group III
• Valvoline: Group III
• Shell: Group III
• Pennzoil: Group III+

Again, I don't claim to be some kind of expert on any of this $4!7 ... I'm just looking up resources and trying to make sense of it, and this is what I'm finding. I could be all sorts of wrong, but there's so much GD discussion on the Internet about engine oil that it's impossible to not find this stuff. And what I see over and over and over again ad nasuem is that Amsoil beats out everyone else.

At the end of the day, who fkn cares? If you're happy putting recycled Chinese night soil in your engine because it's half the price, go for it.

Just don't take such a strong stance that everyone is so fkn wrong because they're paying a little more for peace of mind.

 

[Frenchy]

JFC man, you're insufferable.

It's not a massive conspiracy, so you can go look it up yourself.

I just ran a rudimentary Google search:

• Mobile 1: Group III
• Castrol: Group III
• Valvoline: Group III
• Shell: Group III
• Pennzoil: Group III+

Again, I don't claim to be some kind of expert on any of this $4!7 ... I'm just looking up resources and trying to make sense of it, and this is what I'm finding. I could be all sorts of wrong, but there's so much GD discussion on the Internet about engine oil that it's impossible to not find this stuff. And what I see over and over and over again ad nasuem is that Amsoil beats out everyone else.

At the end of the day, who fkn cares? If you're happy putting recycled Chinese night soil in your engine because it's half the price, go for it.

Just don't take such a strong stance that everyone is so fkn wrong because they're paying a little more for peace of mind.

You still seem to claim that Amsoil is beating the rest and yet I can't seem to find a single vehicle manufacturer that recommends it. Also if you were to take Amsoil against the rest you will find that many individuals would rast save their money. Just going off of this particular pill we have a 90% to 10% vote of everything else vs Amsoil.

Also if you were not aware, Motul is French. Your Amsoil is coming from Chevron and then blended with some other stuff and doesn't meet the needed Specifications for your vehicle.

 

[RuggedRanger]

You still seem to claim that Amsoil is beating the rest and yet I can't seem to find a single vehicle manufacturer that recommends it. Also if you were to take Amsoil against the rest you will find that many individuals would rast save their money. Just going off of this particular pill we have a 90% to 10% vote of everything else vs Amsoil.

Also if you were not aware, Motul is French. Your Amsoil is coming from Chevron and then blended with some other stuff and doesn't meet the needed Specifications for your vehicle.

I have absolutely no idea what the politics are behind why any auto company would back any particular engine oil product. I honestly don't think think it's a meaningful metric.

My theory for the poll results are people are buying either what they know because someone in their family does it, or they trust a particular brand to be the best bang for the buck... and there's nothing wrong with that IMO. I'm not going to dump on anyone for that.

But I also don't think those folks are the kind that really give a sht the way I do to take time out of the day to obsess over some esoteric sht like "who makes the best engine oil" ... and good for em!

However, I put the time into it and I'm happy with the results because my "Ford Fkn Ranger" runs like a GD beast.

 

[JohnnyO]

I'm of the opinion that:
1. If you change your oil every 5000 to 6000 miles it doesn't matter much what oil you use.
2. 10k OCI's are designed to show low cost of operation and get past the warranty period.
3. You shouldn't go 10k on oil in a turbocharged engine. FordTechMacaluoco or whatever his name is has a video on YouTube showing how that clogs the screens in the oil lines and cooks the turbo's bearings. But hey, it'll last until the warranty is up.
4. A use oil analysis is the only way to know for sure but FYI that costs as much as an oil change.

 

[shovelhd]

I'm of the opinion that:
1. If you change your oil every 5000 to 6000 miles it doesn't matter much what oil you use.
2. 10k OCI's are designed to show low cost of operation and get past the warranty period.
3. You shouldn't go 10k on oil in a turbocharged engine. FordTechMacaluoco or whatever his name is has a video on YouTube showing how that clogs the screens in the oil lines and cooks the turbo's bearings. But hey, it'll last until the warranty is up.
4. A use oil analysis is the only way to know for sure but FYI that costs as much as an oil change.

VW/Audi still recommends 10K OCI's, even today. I've never bought into this and always changed it much sooner. My theory is that they specify 10K to reduce perceived maintenance costs, which are reported in Consumer Reports. Buyers still read that rag and make decisions based on their "data". It's part of their "reliability" and "cost of ownership" rankings. VW/Audi has had low marks in this area over time, and this was one way to increase them.

 

[lariat]

It helps to have some kind of comparison matrix to look at. Here's the Top 5 oil producers and their comparable specs (according to ChatGPT).

To me and my admittedly very rudimentary knowledge of oil, I don't see any major red flags... although it does appear that Amsoil performs better overall where it counts.

Look, I originally came onto this thread saying that I use Amsoil because they are actually producing a true Group 4 true synthetic while everyone else is a Group 3 partial synthetic.

The argument -- as I see it -- isn't about whether or not Amsoil is better per se because we can niggle over brand names until the sun comes up, but the argument is whether or not Group 4 is better than Group 3.

And I can't find a single claim anywhere that says a Group 3 oil outperforms a Group 4.

The American Petroleum Institute which created this categorization system identifies Group 4 as superior to Group 3.

So, if you got a problem with the API, take it up with them.

In the mean time, I'm not going to lose any sleep over the fact that I spent $1,200 over a 10 year period compared to $600. Actually, I'll sleep better knowing that whatever happens to my engine, it won't be because I tried to save a buck on oil.

* edit: updated image to clarify HT/HS

VW/Audi still recommends 10K OCI's, even today. I've never bought into this and always changed it much sooner. My theory is that they specify 10K to reduce perceived maintenance costs, which are reported in Consumer Reports. Buyers still read that rag and make decisions based on their "data". It's part of their "reliability" and "cost of ownership" rankings. VW/Audi has had low marks in this area over time, and this was one way to increase them.

You can bet that when OEM's specify 10K miles before an oil change, they are being conservative as pushing the envelope only increases their risk. I remember when 5K miles was considered normal, now 10K miles is more standard these days with synthetics and additives.

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