Lab Report on 60k Mile Transmission Fluid

[Deleted User 61245811]

I changed my transmission fluid, filter, pan and dipstick at 60k miles. I went with Valvoline ULV because it was on sale at Napa for $6.74 a quart (thanks for the tip @ctechbob). A PPE extra capacity (because I tow heavy) pan and a Fitz Stick dipstick (@Fitzmotor) . I waited until 60k miles because I didn't want any warranty fights if something happened with the transmission before the 60k powertrain warranty was up. I did the original drop the pan, replace the filter, refill. Then after 50 or so miles of driving, I unscrewed the convenient drain plug in the new, no longer plastic, PPE pan and did another refill. Fluid on the fitzstick is cherry red now. Side note, I also changed the transfer case and both differential fluids as well.

Sent a sample of the first pan drop into Blackstone and here is what they had to say about it.

"There's some extra aluminum and copper here, but a good deal of it is likely from the break-in since this sample is from the first oil change, and if so, we should see improvements next time. The other metals already look good next to universal averages for Ford's 10R80, which are based on ~32,200-mile intervals. A trace of insolubles show minimal oil oxidation, and the 1.1 TAN shows mild acidity. Do 61k miles again to see if aluminum and copper are indeed from break-in -- if so, and everything else looks good, a longer run should be doable."

For reference, I live in the desert heat of Phoenix. Easily 20% of my miles are heavy, near max capacity RV towing. About 10% of the miles are off pavement, dirt sand, mud, snow.

Lessons learned from the experience:
1) Ford is douche bags for not including a drain plug and dipstick.
2) Squeeze pouches are well worth whatever extra money they cost for the diff and transfer case.
3) Go ahead and wait to do your service until you find the transmission fluid on sale. What's in there is probably in better condition than you think.
4) Pan magnets don't help with aluminum and copper.

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[23HRPXL]

This is very good information, thank you for sharing.

 

[ctechbob]

FWIW, I've never disputed that ULV is a good fluid and holds up well. My goal is to keep as much of the small debris out of the fluid as possible.

Yes, there is a nice filter in the 10R80, but part of the problems we are having is that the valves are sticking and/or wearing. Keeping the microscopic abrasive particles out of the valve body is (one of)my goal.

 

[5thranger]

I changed my transmission fluid, filter, pan and dipstick at 60k miles. I went with Valvoline ULV because it was on sale at Napa for $6.74 a quart (thanks for the tip @ctechbob). A PPE extra capacity (because I tow heavy) pan and a Fitz Stick dipstick (@Fitzmotor) . I waited until 60k miles because I didn't want any warranty fights if something happened with the transmission before the 60k powertrain warranty was up. I did the original drop the pan, replace the filter, refill. Then after 50 or so miles of driving, I unscrewed the convenient drain plug in the new, no longer plastic, PPE pan and did another refill. Fluid on the fitzstick is cherry red now. Side note, I also changed the transfer case and both differential fluids as well.

Sent a sample of the first pan drop into Blackstone and here is what they had to say about it.

"There's some extra aluminum and copper here, but a good deal of it is likely from the break-in since this sample is from the first oil change, and if so, we should see improvements next time. The other metals already look good next to universal averages for Ford's 10R80, which are based on ~32,200-mile intervals. A trace of insolubles show minimal oil oxidation, and the 1.1 TAN shows mild acidity. Do 61k miles again to see if aluminum and copper are indeed from break-in -- if so, and everything else looks good, a longer run should be doable."

For reference, I live in the desert heat of Phoenix. Easily 20% of my miles are heavy, near max capacity RV towing. About 10% of the miles are off pavement, dirt sand, mud, snow.

Lessons learned from the experience:
1) Ford is douche bags for not including a drain plug and dipstick.
2) Squeeze pouches are well worth whatever extra money they cost for the diff and transfer case.
3) Go ahead and wait to do your service until you find the transmission fluid on sale. What's in there is probably in better condition than you think.
4) Pan magnets don't help with aluminum and copper.

I agree with everything you have said. #1 especially.

 

[Stevedbvik1]

I agree with everything you have said. #1 especially.

Playing devils advocate on #1. What midrange pickup manufacturers are putting transmission dipsticks and pan drain plugs in their current vehicles?
Also, no fluid analysis will tell you how much your CDF bushing has migrated which is the apparent #1 issue with the 10R80. It may show side effects of the bushing moving but by then I think you already would have shifting issues.

 

[5thranger]

Playing devils advocate on #1. What midrange pickup manufacturers are putting transmission dipsticks and pan drain plugs in their current vehicles?
Also, no fluid analysis will tell you how much your CDF bushing has migrated which is the apparent #1 issue with the 10R80. It may show side effects of the bushing moving but by then I think you already would have shifting issues.

A safe assumption would be none, however that does not mean that there should be at least a transmission dip stick.

 

[Racket]

The points that stand out to me are the 33K mile change intervals they seem to be recommending and that there are nonferrous materials in the fluid. One of the concerns I read about in the stock valve body was the steel components magnetically capturing stuff that would gum them up and some aftermarket manufacturers advocating for their anodized aluminum versions.

 

[Cabose-1]

To play devils advocate again, 2010 to about 2015 worked as a mechanic, very very very few cars or trucks have drain plugs. A drain plug is the exception not the rule. And even fewer cars have transmission dipsticks. Literally no dipstick. You lift the car while running and take off a bolt, if fluid comes out full. If none, add. Drain plugs and dipsticks are like v8s power steering pumps, and the dodo bird. Things of the past.

 

[RedDakooter05]

Didn't know blackstone did ATF testing.

 

[Grandaccess]

I agree with everything you have said. #1 especially.

I know right, every Ford I have owned in the last 45 years has been rock F***ING solid to well over 150k and once or twice to over 250K now all of a sudden I buy a new truck and everyone having tons of little issues almost off the lot? WTF
my only issue so far in 22k was the lower Rat hose blew, not off, some failure right in the center ... fixed at a cost of $175
Cant trust them any more

 

[dtech]

To play devils advocate again, 2010 to about 2015 worked as a mechanic, very very very few cars or trucks have drain plugs. A drain plug is the exception not the rule. And even fewer cars have transmission dipsticks. Literally no dipstick. You lift the car while running and take off a bolt, if fluid comes out full. If none, add. Drain plugs and dipsticks are like v8s power steering pumps, and the dodo bird. Things of the past.

yes dipsticks were eliminated by and large well before drain plugs, Toyota, Honda and some other Japanese makes a few yrs back used to have drain plugs but unsure if they still do . With most every maker extending service tranny intervals or claiming lifetime ATF fluid wouldn't be surprised if the Japanese makes have done away with them as well .

 

[Deleted User 61245811]

The points that stand out to me are the 33K mile change intervals they seem to be recommending and that there are nonferrous materials in the fluid. One of the concerns I read about in the stock valve body was the steel components magnetically capturing stuff that would gum them up and some aftermarket manufacturers advocating for their anodized aluminum versions.

If I may speak for the Laboratory on the topic of recommendation, they are not recommending a 33k mile change interval. When they analyze the fluid that you send into them, be it engine oil or ATF, they show you one column that has the analysis for your current oil sample, they will also have other columns that show any previous samples that you have sent in for the same vehicle. So, if you have sent in 5 engine oil samples to them, for example, on the same vehicle, they will have 5 columns in order, showing the results of each sample side by side. In the very far right column, they include the cumulative, universal averages for every sample for every engine (or in this case transmission) that is the same as yours, in this case of the 10R80 transmission. They are saying that these cumulative, universal averages are coming from fluid samples whose cumulative, universal fluid change intervals happen to average out to 32,200 miles. These average numbers would include first time changes that would include break in, as well as, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc changes that would not include break in. Its a way of trying to see if your fluid characteristics are indicating that there is something out of the ordinary happening in your vehicle.

They only give individual, custom recommendations based on your own samples. They do not give universal recommendations. Their actual recommendation specific for me based on my own sample, is to provide them with another sample in another 60k miles and they will analyze it to let me know whether I need to change it again or whether it is still in good condition and can stay in longer than the 60k miles.

"
Do 61k miles again to see if aluminum and copper are indeed from break-in -- if so, and everything else looks good, a longer run should be doable."

 

[Deleted User 61245811]

Allow me to restate my #1 Lesson learned for those that seem troubled by it.

Lessons learned from the experience:
1) Ford is douche bags for not including a drain plug and dipstick It would be nice if every manufacturer of every type vehicle with a transmission that utilizes fluids would provide an easy means and method to drain, refill, and check fluid within the transmission, so that I don’t have to buy and install the desired easy means and methods from the aftermarket (sorry @Fitzmotor) .

 

[Mikemcc]

I changed my transmission fluid, filter, pan and dipstick at 60k miles. I went with Valvoline ULV because it was on sale at Napa for $6.74 a quart (thanks for the tip @ctechbob). A PPE extra capacity (because I tow heavy) pan and a Fitz Stick dipstick (@Fitzmotor) . I waited until 60k miles because I didn't want any warranty fights if something happened with the transmission before the 60k powertrain warranty was up. I did the original drop the pan, replace the filter, refill. Then after 50 or so miles of driving, I unscrewed the convenient drain plug in the new, no longer plastic, PPE pan and did another refill. Fluid on the fitzstick is cherry red now. Side note, I also changed the transfer case and both differential fluids as well.

Sent a sample of the first pan drop into Blackstone and here is what they had to say about it.

"There's some extra aluminum and copper here, but a good deal of it is likely from the break-in since this sample is from the first oil change, and if so, we should see improvements next time. The other metals already look good next to universal averages for Ford's 10R80, which are based on ~32,200-mile intervals. A trace of insolubles show minimal oil oxidation, and the 1.1 TAN shows mild acidity. Do 61k miles again to see if aluminum and copper are indeed from break-in -- if so, and everything else looks good, a longer run should be doable."

For reference, I live in the desert heat of Phoenix. Easily 20% of my miles are heavy, near max capacity RV towing. About 10% of the miles are off pavement, dirt sand, mud, snow.

Lessons learned from the experience:
1) Ford is douche bags for not including a drain plug and dipstick.
2) Squeeze pouches are well worth whatever extra money they cost for the diff and transfer case.
3) Go ahead and wait to do your service until you find the transmission fluid on sale. What's in there is probably in better condition than you think.
4) Pan magnets don't help with aluminum and copper.

Nice info. What did you use to pump in the new fluid ?

 

[Deleted User 61245811]

Nice info. What did you use to pump in the new fluid ?

I used the tube for the Fitzstick transmission dip stick that I installed. Just poured it right in from the engine compartment. No pump required.

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