Bucking/Surging Epidemic

[ppfd]

Well 2 days and the truck is running like shit again. All the typical complaints listed here.
I have the part needed, going to call the dealer and see if they will put it in next week while its in for an alignment.
I guess the only way to see if it is this problem or the transmission is to replace this first.

What has me questioning the trans is, low speeds the truck will shake and sputter like hell. From a stop at a red light, last evening included. The truck bogs down and acts like its going to stall out. I hit the gas and it seems to clear out. I hit 40 and above and 95% of the time it runs fine. I notice an occasional "miss" above 40.

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[Msfitoy]

What has me questioning the trans is, low speeds the truck will shake and sputter like hell. From a stop at a red light, last evening included. The truck bogs down and acts like its going to stall out. I hit the gas and it seems to clear out. I hit 40 and above and 95% of the time it runs fine. I notice an occasional "miss" above 40.

It's an EGR sensor issue...not transmission...

 

[airline tech]

Well 2 days and the truck is running like shit again. All the typical complaints listed here.
I have the part needed, going to call the dealer and see if they will put it in next week while its in for an alignment.
I guess the only way to see if it is this problem or the transmission is to replace this first.

What has me questioning the trans is, low speeds the truck will shake and sputter like hell. From a stop at a red light, last evening included. The truck bogs down and acts like its going to stall out. I hit the gas and it seems to clear out. I hit 40 and above and 95% of the time it runs fine. I notice an occasional "miss" above 40.

This is most likely the (Inaccurate) reading from the DPFE Sensor, commanding the EGR Valve to open, when it should be closed.
In a simple way to explain, the engine is being flooded out at off idle speeds, by the addition of unburned fuel vapor, being introduced back into the intake manifold.
This is your stumble, and by pressing the gas pedal and getting up to speed, you are then in the parameters where the EGR Valve should be open, and stumble mostly disappears.

Plus, at idle the intake manifold pressure is higher (so higher vacuum), as you increase throttle the intake manifold pressure lowers (so lower vacuum) -- Normal Operation

When the EGR Valve opens, the manifold pressure increases, so if the EGR valve is open during Idle and just off idle (low speed operation) the intake manifold pressure will be higher than normal. (Stumble)

The DPFE Sensor, measures the differential pressure between the Upstream Pressure (Intake Manifold) and Downstream Pressure (Exhaust Flow-across the sensor)
So, I believe what is happening is that the sensor is not accurately reading the Downstream Pressure, thus allowing the EGR Valve to be commanded open, which increases Upstream Pressure.
The failure cause appears to be the natural moisture content in the exhaust flow, over time the internal circuit board is failing.
Now from what I have read this is a known failure point for years, the part has been modified and the PCM calibration has been modified to eliminate this known problem, and they just do not have it perfected.

Some possible solutions for a design change
1. Adjust the PCM software to accommodate the moisture factor to a degree where the PCM will account for it.
2. Add some type of moisture monitor (sensor) in the tubing going to the sensor, to tie into #1 above.
3. Modify the DPFE sensor to protect the (PCB) from moisture and heat damage.
4. Incorporate a Water/Moisture Seperator in the system to drain off the moisture content before it enters the sensor and have a drain tube similar to the Evap (HVAC) drain
Have this include a catch can and have the catch can open at engine shut down and close at engine start by a (Solenoid Valve)

 

[mw53]

Well...I'll answer my own question and settle this once and for all...I finally got around to replacing this part as my low speed bogging/shuttering/throttle tip-in stumble/general pain the ass parking lot drivability got extremely shitty...did anyone mention this part is a Fnpainintheass to reach?! You can reach it, you can see it...but you can't see and reach it at the same time to put a plier on the clamps!!! Not to mention having to stand on a stool and reach over on top of the engine without anything to brace while wondering where's the blood coming from!!! After EGR DFPE sensor replacement, all the stupid low speed engine behavior went away! I can set the cruise to 20mph and she just purrrrs away...

Here's the confusion regarding these two parts numbers...THEY'RE ESSENTIALLY THE SAME PART! One has the full clamps/hose/bracket assembly $80 ( LB5Z-9J433-B) while the other cheaper one $12 (KA1Z-5L200A) is the sensor only...why hasn't anyone mention this? Not knowing the difference, I ordered both believing they were TWO separate sensors that were needed...The Good news is that I now have a spare sensor to mount onto the old assembly...

Msfitoy is driving smooth as when she was 20 something...?

 

[mw53]

Having similar issues starting at around 38K and trying a few other things I came across this forum. I had the part LB5Z-9J433-B replaced and it runs great again. Thanks everyone.

 

[Wytchdctr]

Swapped mine before big issues started at 25k. It seems they were getting ready to start. I guess I failed to notice it lacked or lost some smoothness to it as it may have been a slow change. Noticeable difference with the new thing in place. Like changing really old spark plugs sort of change to how it's running now.

Tip for swapping it if you get the one with the hoses etc. My shorter hose.... the clamp was in an awkward position to get a tool on it to release it. Take everything else off and lay the egr thing over; now you can actually see the shorter "S" shaped hose clamp. Once I did that this was a 10min at most job. The majority of the time was looking for a socket I dropped (FYI: it landed in the oil filter drain tray if you drop a socket or the bolt that holds it... took me a few to see it)

 

[Msfitoy]

Swapped mine before big issues started at 25k. It seems they were getting ready to start. I guess I failed to notice it lacked or lost some smoothness to it as it may have been a slow change. Noticeable difference with the new thing in place. Like changing really old spark plugs sort of change to how it's running now.

Tip for swapping it if you get the one with the hoses etc. My shorter hose.... the clamp was in an awkward position to get a tool on it to release it. Take everything else off and lay the egr thing over; now you can actually see the shorter "S" shaped hose clamp. Once I did that this was a 10min at most job. The majority of the time was looking for a socket I dropped (FYI: it landed in the oil filter drain tray if you drop a socket or the bolt that holds it... took me a few to see it)

In my case, I could see it and reach it...but not at the same time making reaching for the clamps a blind operation...unless you somehow were able to stick your head and arms under the hood at the same time...

 

[Wytchdctr]

In my case, I could see it and reach it...but not at the same time making reaching for the clamps a blind operation...unless you somehow were able to stick your head and arms under the hood at the same time...

Having a remote clamp remover also helped make short work of that. Looks sort of like someone took a bike brake and made a tool out of it.

But that is probably overkill for this. Needle nose would work once you can get them on the stupid clamp things that are a bit awkward in general. The short one was spun towards the engine. The longer one was facing out.

Cheesy tool thing mentioned above... it helps reach and locks once you have the clamp open.

 

[Wytchdctr]

OK seriously. Until they mod this part I am adding it to the list of stuff to do every 25k miles. This is silly.

What the hell Ford.

Note. A quality rep from Ford just applied to my company. If we don't pick them up I am tempted to email them and be like.. wtf over? Fill trans right and fix this egr BS. I need to make a shit talking list.

How to get fired as an HR Manager...........

 

[ppfd]

I plan to read over the whole thread again.
Are there pictures of where the part is?
Anyone want to share a walk through on the install?
These clamps stay on and attach to whatever piece this one hooks on to?

 

[AzScorpion]

I plan to read over the whole thread again.
Are there pictures of where the part is?
Anyone want to share a walk through on the install?
These clamps stay on and attach to whatever piece this one hooks on to?

Pic of where part is.

https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/threads/bucking-surging-epidemic.14581/post-323411

 

[Msfitoy]

I plan to read over the whole thread again.
Are there pictures of where the part is?
Anyone want to share a walk through on the install?
These clamps stay on and attach to whatever piece this one hooks on to?

Start at page 26...post #387...

 

[ppfd]

Thanks guys.
Going to see if the dealer will throw it on while I have it in for an alignment first.

 

[mgallo13]

In my case, I could see it and reach it...but not at the same time making reaching for the clamps a blind operation...unless you somehow were able to stick your head and arms under the hood at the same time...

this is what I did yesterday. all 6'3" with my legs fully horizontal leaning on my battery and around the hood strut. pulled it next to my deck so I could basically climb into the engine bay to reach the stupid clamps.



In regard to this thread/part LB5Z-9J433-B: My truck starting hesitating around the 40k mark, I'm at 43k now. I drove to NC this past weekend from Jersey and my gf drove my truck and even she noticed the hesitation. Finally had the time yesterday to swap out the DPFE. Some observations/recommendations for anyone thinking of doing this themselves:

1- overall it took my 20 mins and would have taken less if I didn't try to shortcut it
2- my clamps on the original part were oriented perfectly straight up so they were relatively easy to grab with needle nose after step 3 below...
3- after dicking around for 10 minutes without a headlamp I went and grabbed mine and had the clamps off in about 3 minutes- SEEING the orientation of the clamp is the hardest part IMHO as I was fumbling in the dark like an idiot for 10 mins before I decided to work smarter not harder
4- the tubing of the DPFE was threaded relatively far onto the metal tubes coming off the motor/egr and took some wiggling and balancing grip w/ the needlenose and pulling the tubes off which was mildly annoying
5- reinstallation was easy with the little plastic rings that came on the replacement part for the clamps.


TL;DR --- swapping this part immediately eliminated the hesitation

 

[ppfd]

On my to the dealer for an alignment today, the CEL came on. Part in question sitting on the seat.
I got there, and did not need an alignment?
Mechanic checked the light, same code.
2 options given
They would put my part on free while I was there.
They warranty it, and I get it for free.
I took #2, said part would be in next week, they will call when it comes in.
I’ve driven it this long, few more days won’t hurt.

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