Maximizing Battery Life

[Nellieg]

I tend to run the noco on battery direct with bms disconnected then after the noco has done it's thing hook up the bms and let it sit 8h. Battery was doing the auto shutoff thing in fall. ASS was not working. Now the auto start stop is functioning and not dipping below 12.2 after a week.

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[pboggini]

Yea, I was hoping others had been doing some of this "real world" testing but it looks like the successful approaches so far are 1) Disconnect BMS, you and dtech (and probably more) and 2) trickle chargers.

I know an old Ford parts guy who I've been asking about this. He talked to the electrical service guys and said they pretty much said "we don't know, we really don't do much in the way of troubleshooting we just put the tester on and if it says the battery is bad we will swap it". So, he's going to see if he can find some regional rep and ask him some questions. Would be really nice to find an engineer who's willing to talk "off the record".

I do find it interesting that the F150 is set to 80% and the Ranger 75%.

I guess I'm pretty lucky because my truck didn't really start acting up until a couple of months ago so I'm well over 36 months and almost 4 years with it all stock. With any luck, I'll get 5+ years and find the sweet spot.

Ford states what they did in broad terms, but to understand where the sweet spot is between long battery life and EPA mandated requirements requires real world testing. The alternative is to do nothing and replace the battery every 18-30 months.

Looks like you are on the right path.

 

[TJC]

I found that when I charged the battery to 100%, the truck would let it drain to the 70-75% SOC threshold.... frustrating.

You may be onto the 3rd option. Raise the SOC threshold.

I dislike ASS (I don't like replacing starters or batteries), so the decision for me was easy.

 

[pboggini]

Yea, I've seen many others say pretty much the same thing. Seems like it doesn't matter how often you charge it, the BMS will drive it to the SOC %.

As for ASS, I don't hate it. But, I wish I could change it to default to off. I do like to use it when I get to a light that just turned red. So while we disabled this on my nephew's F150, I've kept it on for now. But, I normally turn it off and only turn it on when I get to a light that's just changed.

I found that when I charged the battery to 100%, the truck would let it drain to the 70-75% SOC threshold.... frustrating.

You may be onto the 3rd option. Raise the SOC threshold.

I dislike ASS (I don't like replacing starters or batteries), so the decision for me was easy.

 

[TJC]

Re: 80% SOC in F150 vs 70%-75% in Rangers

I noticed a .2v drop in charging voltage between my 4G 2005 Ranger and my 5G 2020 Ranger (with BMS sensor unplugged). The charge pattern was identical, but longer in the 2020 Ranger. The charge Voltage ceiling was identical in both truck. The both tended to start at 14.3v or 14.4v (depending on ambient temp) and would drop as the battery was charged. The 2005 recovered faster, and dropped to the floor voltage of ~13.8v. The 2020 followed the same pattern, but slower recovery and tended to hover around 14v. It did drop lower on occasion to 13.9v but it was rare.

Maybe the same scenario is at play with the F150, larger power draw. Ranger Lariats are at 75% SOC while other Rangers appear to be at 70%.

I have not checked my XLT 4x4 Sport.

 

[dtech]

But to confirm, you don't have BMS hooked up so your 100% would be w/o any "regenerative charging" right?

that's correct - but understand if you set forscan at 90% you'll limit the amount of regen, it's hard to get a figure on the mpg gains of regen as vehicles all driven differently, I saw estimates of 3%~ 4% and assume that would be at the lower SOC setting. Being retired and living in a small area my driving is limited, but for longer trips I will connect the BMS to use the regen.

 

[pboggini]

My XL (STX) SOC was 75%. So, I'm not sure if others see the same thing or not. I wonder if where the truck was sold plays into it as well.

Re: 80% SOC in F150 vs 70%-75% in Rangers

I noticed a .2v drop in charging voltage between my 4G 2005 Ranger and my 5G 2020 Ranger (with BMS sensor unplugged). The charge pattern was identical, but longer in the 2020 Ranger. The charge Voltage ceiling was identical in both truck. The both tended to start at 14.3v or 14.4v (depending on ambient temp) and would drop as the battery was charged. The 2005 recovered faster, and dropped to the floor voltage of ~13.8v. The 2020 followed the same pattern, but slower recovery and tended to hover around 14v. It did drop lower on occasion to 13.9v but it was rare.

Maybe the same scenario is at play with the F150, larger power draw. Ranger Lariats are at 75% SOC while other Rangers appear to be at 70%.

I have not checked my XLT 4x4 Sport.

 

[pboggini]

Oh, this is good. If raising the SOC does indeed limit the use of BMS using regen that would be good. Meaning, my fear of having the SOC so high that the alternator keeps it fully charged and then regen overcharging it seems like it might not be something to fear?

that's correct - but understand if you set forscan at 90% you'll limit the amount of regen, it's hard to get a figure on the mpg gains of regen as vehicles all driven differently, I saw estimates of 3%~ 4% and assume that would be at the lower SOC setting. Being retired and living in a small area my driving is limited, but for longer trips I will connect the BMS to use the regen.

 

[TJC]

Yea, I've seen many others say pretty much the same thing. Seems like it doesn't matter how often you charge it, the BMS will drive it to the SOC %.

As for ASS, I don't hate it. But, I wish I could change it to default to off. I do like to use it when I get to a light that just turned red. So while we disabled this on my nephew's F150, I've kept it on for now. But, I normally turn it off and only turn it on when I get to a light that's just changed.

Get the ASS module. Installs easier and remembers your last setting when you shutdown the truck. ASS switch works exactly the same with the module installed.

The first thing I added to my truck. I almost killed the deal over the ASS feature. The salesman turned it off before I test drove the truck. I didn't know such a thing existed (I keep my vehicles a long long time). I beat him to it on the second test drive and I thought the damn truck stalled on me at the light! I promptly returned to the dealership ans asked how to disable it. Blank stares!
I told them disable it or no deal, and walked out.

Got home and began researching. Found 3 ways around ASS. Went back the next day and purchased the truck.

 

[dtech]

Oh, this is good. If raising the SOC does indeed limit the use of BMS using regen that would be good. Meaning, my fear of having the SOC so high that the alternator keeps it fully charged and then regen overcharging it seems like it might not be something to fear?

absolutely not - in fact based on some info from tjc who has made empirical observations - it would appear that the default ecu controlled charging system actually may lower the voltage as the SOC approaches 100% as a precautionary measure to prevent excessive heat - not from overcharging but as batteries approach 100% internal resistance increases which tends to gen a bit more heat. this is seen in other mfg charging alorithyms so good to know Ford does it as well.

Keep in mind that before there was such a thing as BMS vehicles have voltage regulation systems in one form or another, now that function is mostly controlled by the ECU and the BMS seems to be an additional layer of functionality, disconnect it and the vehicle defaults to it's basic charging regulation without the bells and whistles the BMS adds.

 

[SigOris]

I found that when I charged the battery to 100%, the truck would let it drain to the 70-75% SOC threshold.... frustrating.

You may be onto the 3rd option. Raise the SOC threshold.

I dislike ASS (I don't like replacing starters or batteries), so the decision for me was easy.

can't find where I read this but the ASS uses the Alternator to restart and not The Starter

 

[pboggini]

absolutely not - in fact based on some info from tjc who has made empirical observations - it would appear that the default ecu controlled charging system actually may lower the voltage as the SOC approaches 100% as a precautionary measure to prevent excessive heat - not from overcharging but as batteries approach 100% internal resistance increases which tends to gen a bit more heat. this is seen in other mfg charging alorithyms so good to know Ford does it as well.

That's good to know/hear. I would love to hear from anyone who's set theirs to 95% or even 100%.

Keep in mind that before there was such a thing as BMS vehicles have voltage regulation systems in one form or another, now that function is mostly controlled by the ECU and the BMS seems to be an additional layer of functionality, disconnect it and the vehicle defaults to it's basic charging regulation without the bells and whistles the BMS adds.

As someone who used to sell parts for a living and used to do a lot of wrenching on my '65 Mustang I remember vividly how charging systems got much better when they went to solid state voltage regulators from the old pointed ones. The pointed ones, as I remember, used to let batteries over charge quite a bit.

 

[dtech]

That's good to know/hear. I would love to hear from anyone who's set theirs to 95% or even 100%.



As someone who used to sell parts for a living and used to do a lot of wrenching on my '65 Mustang I remember vividly how charging systems got much better when they went to solid state voltage regulators from the old pointed ones. The pointed ones, as I remember, used to let batteries over charge quite a bit.

yeah they could sometimes under or over charge, I remember pulling off the cover and adjusting the tension spring to buy some extra time for a dying battery. And I once installed an old AMC alternator I had on my Datsun 510 when it's alternator failed, the thing fit in and worked perfectly .

 

[pboggini]

yeah they could sometimes under or over charge, I remember pulling off the cover and adjusting the tension spring to buy some extra time for a dying battery. And I once installed an old AMC alternator I had on my Datsun 510 when it's alternator failed, the thing fit in and worked perfectly .

Simpler times

 

[dtech]

can't find where I read this but the ASS uses the Alternator to restart and not The Starter

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