Bad BCM (or so I'm told) and a nightmarish customer experience

[GitRDone]

I have a very good friend that is “the guru” at a very large Land Rover dealer. We were talking about electronics in cars today and he went on a rant! He told me that they have at least 100 cars out in back waiting for parts, can’t figure out what’s wrong or a combo of both. Then he opines, these are $100K + vehicles! Just to do simple repairs require hours of tear downs to get at a part or harness. He says customers come out into the garage to bitch at him that their NEW car is been in for repairs going on 3 months! They only drove it a week. Dealer took back their loaner and has me in a cheap rental.

So by the looks of it Fords seem a little better in that realm

True story, in fact I believe Land Rover is named after the poor mechanic trying to chase down parts.

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[NotBudule]

Is it fixed ?

 

[N559br]

True story, in fact I believe Land Rover is named after the poor mechanic trying to chase down parts.

I was one of this land Rover customers. A 2 month wait just for an oil change. $660 rear brake services and on and on. Bought the ranger for it's similar towing capacity and not diesel. Now it's a 2 week wait for an oil change and we will see how my first warranty repair goes.

 

[CP0861]

Is it fixed ?

Nope.

They replaced the BCM yesterday and said it was "part of the problem" but it didn't fix the issue (I knew in my gut it wouldn't be the fix). They did a pinpoint test and determined its a bad connection at the door. So they had to order another piece....they're hoping to get it Monday.

So on to the next gremlin.

I attached the receipt they gave me from the visit when they determined it was the BCM....which was 3-4 weeks ago. I see it mentions a "pp test" also

 

[Cmar]

I was one of this land Rover customers. A 2 month wait just for an oil change. $660 rear brake services and on and on. Bought the ranger for it's similar towing capacity and not diesel. Now it's a 2 week wait for an oil change and we will see how my first warranty repair goes.

I owned a Range Rover for a few years, without a doubt it was one of the nicest, most comfortable vehicles I've ever owned, on, or off road. But the electrics were a joke, truly bad, and parts in general always hard to find, and expensive when they finally turned up. Luckily I could do most of the work myself, because I was always fixing something.

One example engine harness caught fire- replacement part was weeks to months from the UK, none in Australia - I wonder why? and a king's ransom. - well technically it was a queens ransom back then.
After running around with a jury rig for months (soldered in bypasses for the burned bits) , I finally cracked the sh*ts, ripped it out, pulled it apart, and bought the wire and fittings from an auto electrical shop and made a proper replica myself. Actually it wasn't a exact clone, I used heavier wire and more heavy duty insulation.
The whole problem with the original was the main trunk of it ran down the valley of the V on the V8 and eventually the plastic got brittle from the heat and vibration, and the insulation would crack and short out.

I used that good old rubberized cotton tape that you can't seem to buy anymore and insulated each wire individually, and the whole harness, and made some silicone rubber standoffs to keep it off the hot engine. Never had any more trouble from that bit of the wiring.

 

[D Fresh]

I find hilarious when a person whose never fixed a thing in his life bitches about the troubleshooting/repair process.

Two words for the OP. Lemon Law.

 

[Dereku]

I find hilarious when a person whose never fixed a thing in his life bitches about the troubleshooting/repair process.

Two words for the OP. Lemon Law.

I agree. Electric gremlins on a new vehicle, I would dump it asap

 

[CP0861]

I agree. Electric gremlins on a new vehicle, I would dump it asap

Of course that's the worst case scenario, but lemon laws don't allow for just immediately dumping it. There have to be MULTIPLE documented attempts to fix.

 

[airline tech]

I've been fighting what is either a wiring issue or a module (BCM) issue for ~20k miles. Random (mostly) resets of traction control, Oil Life, ACC (as a note I DID relocate the radar sensor but that didn't coincide with the other issues), Traffic Alert (the things that alerts if a car is next to you on the mirror) as well as (a couple times) where the dash cluster just completely resets while driving, the radio shows a "disc read error" or resets and occasional seat belt warnings (mostly in the rear seats, the drivers seat had this but a re-seat of the seat coupler fixed it).

The oil life reset is a WEIRD issue since it's "calculated" and there's no sensor tied to it... And it happens A LOT. Like, every 400-600 miles.

No, I haven't taken it to the dealer, because "there's no code, we can't help" crap. And there's really no other option.

I thought MAYBE it could be a rodent issue, as I had found rodent food leftovers at one point, but no real damage. More recently I was doing brake work, opened up the center console to loosen the parking brake cable, and found more food leftovers. So, I decided to pull out the ENTIRE interior up to the dash and NO WIRING ISSUES.... I'm still going to check in the cabin air intake area and all up in the dash, but my initial findings don't show anything wrong there.

So anyway, on a hunch a while ago, I replaced the Gateway Module (this device interconnects ALL the CANBUS networks and is what the OBDII port is attached to. This actually fixed the issue, for about 2k miles. Then the same things. So I swapped back to the original one.

Right now the BCM is out of the truck. I'm trying to figure out if I can re-program a new one myself via forscan.... and just replace it....

My only other option is to data log the RAW Canbus streams and hope that I can catch an error of some kind and trace it back to a faulty module.

I'm just.... so tired of this crap.

Wow - You're digging in - headfirst
Question though - When you used scan tool, did it have the ability to read (B) and (U) codes?
I'm quite certain this should generate a code of some kind and be able to view in History
The GWM was a good possibility, but since it came back, though it worked for a bit (???)

Did you download the data from the GWM and reload it to the GWM during install?

It seems like you have a power disruption of some kind, by your description, and it's annoyingly intermittent.

1. I would pull and reseat the connectors on the PCM and IPC (Cluster)
2. I would check the connectors on the (Push Button-Start) switch as by your description it's acting like you are just starting the truck and everything is powering up, so I am thinking a loose connection is causing your issues-Possibly
3. It may be switching in and out of transport mode-see attached for reset
4. You stated you moved sensor-for cross traffic alert or blind spot? This (MAY) play into it as well; they require calibration and with the CAN network, interrelate with other systems
5. Try resetting the BCM / IPC modules using ForScan, I have not used ForScan for anything other than mod tweaks-so I do not know how in depth it can go, other than resetting codes
6. The PCM or BCM or IPC may need reflashed - (Re-Programed), but this is a dealer only thing, and of course they won't do it - unless they have a code
7. One last possibility is that it's tied to Auto-Start Stop, I have not owned a vehicle with it, and luckily for me, it came with it deleted from factory. I know the Batt Mang System and A/Stop tie together and some things are dumped (power wise) when it activates, this transition back (deactivates) and everything is full on - may be playing a role

MOST IMPORTANT - Troubleshooting Point
**8. If you have scanner - with the ability to read (B) and (U) codes, leave it hooked up while driving and when the (Issues) pop up - Check Scanner for DTC's, when it does it or at the very least hook up scanner and check for codes, BEFORE truck is shut-off. This will hopefully get the codes you need to properly diagnose (pinpoint) problem area.
This may be the most important, as faults are (time sensitive) how long was it active, if it is a few milliseconds, it sometimes does not register it to a memory code. Once you shut truck off, the Modules then have power cycled, and the fault is gone, like it never happened

Just thought I would throw out some - second set of eyes on your issue- for other possibilities that us men tend to overlook while they are laser focused.

Good Luck - Finding It

EDIT: The Transport Mode -Reset, RKE=Remote Transmitter (FOB)

 

[WLFPIR8]

Wow - You're digging in - headfirst
Question though - When you used scan tool, did it have the ability to read (B) and (U) codes?
I'm quite certain this should generate a code of some kind and be able to view in History
The GWM was a good possibility, but since it came back, though it worked for a bit (???)

Did you download the data from the GWM and reload it to the GWM during install?

It seems like you have a power disruption of some kind, by your description, and it's annoyingly intermittent.

1. I would pull and reseat the connectors on the PCM and IPC (Cluster)
2. I would check the connectors on the (Push Button-Start) switch as by your description it's acting like you are just starting the truck and everything is powering up, so I am thinking a loose connection is causing your issues-Possibly
3. It may be switching in and out of transport mode-see attached for reset
4. You stated you moved sensor-for cross traffic alert or blind spot? This (MAY) play into it as well; they require calibration and with the CAN network, interrelate with other systems
5. Try resetting the BCM / IPC modules using ForScan, I have not used ForScan for anything other than mod tweaks-so I do not know how in depth it can go, other than resetting codes
6. The PCM or BCM or IPC may need reflashed - (Re-Programed), but this is a dealer only thing, and of course they won't do it - unless they have a code
7. One last possibility is that it's tied to Auto-Start Stop, I have not owned a vehicle with it, and luckily for me, it came with it deleted from factory. I know the Batt Mang System and A/Stop tie together and some things are dumped (power wise) when it activates, this transition back (deactivates) and everything is full on - may be playing a role

MOST IMPORTANT - Troubleshooting Point
**8. If you have scanner - with the ability to read (B) and (U) codes, leave it hooked up while driving and when the (Issues) pop up - Check Scanner for DTC's, when it does it or at the very least hook up scanner and check for codes, BEFORE truck is shut-off. This will hopefully get the codes you need to properly diagnose (pinpoint) problem area.
This may be the most important, as faults are (time sensitive) how long was it active, if it is a few milliseconds, it sometimes does not register it to a memory code. Once you shut truck off, the Modules then have power cycled, and the fault is gone, like it never happened

Just thought I would throw out some - second set of eyes on your issue- for other possibilities that us men tend to overlook while they are laser focused.

Good Luck - Finding It

EDIT: The Transport Mode -Reset, RKE=Remote Transmitter (FOB)

Yeah, copied over the data that i backed up from the old GWM (I think it's just the VIN in this case).

1,2- Resetting connectors has fixed some things in the past, so doing that on this round with everything. Also checking for bent/damaged pins.
4- yeah, did the relocation to the upper part of the grill, while doing this to avoid connection issues, I unwrapped and re-routed the entire harness for that device, as normally you'd have to stretch it really tight. I re-wrapped with harness tape, both sections (after I split out the ACC wires). I did run the built in reset of it via forscan, though the issues I am having started after this.
7- I installed a tune about 10k miles ago, it eliminated Auto-Start/Stop but same issues before/after.

I've had the failure happen at a few points where it would NOT reset until after I power cycled the truck. E.G. The oil life reset to 0%, and when I'd go into the menu and reset it to 100%, it would immediately fail until the truck was cycled. When this happened, I attempted to log data from the OBDII port and it would not connect. As in, the adapter had power but the data coming from the port was either not there or erroneous enough cause the forscan app to not read it. Which is part of the reason I'm curious to try a raw datalogger.

Oddly enough, some of these issues started soon after I did my own oil change (used the "free" ones with fordpass points for the first 6 rounds). But that's just coincidence.

Anyway, thanks for the info! I do love the truck, because offroad it's a BEAST but the creature comforts being hit and miss is annoying sometimes. 90% of the time it works 100% of the time.

 

[9zero1790]

i dont mean to add any aggravation to the issue. in my youth i worked at a body shop and took apart plenty of door panels and swapped out connections. i never would have started with bcm first or complicated bits in major harnesses. a lots changed im old now lol. is it just me or starting with the door and its connections - much easier to get into and check stuff vs. bcm up under dash roughing up the interior- seem like a easier start. i bet ford techs have to follow a step by step of what to try when. I am happy for you they are at least working at it.

 

[airline tech]

I've been fighting what is either a wiring issue or a module (BCM) issue for ~20k miles. Random (mostly) resets of traction control, Oil Life, ACC (as a note I DID relocate the radar sensor but that didn't coincide with the other issues), Traffic Alert (the things that alerts if a car is next to you on the mirror) as well as (a couple times) where the dash cluster just completely resets while driving, the radio shows a "disc read error" or resets and occasional seat belt warnings (mostly in the rear seats, the drivers seat had this but a re-seat of the seat coupler fixed it).

The oil life reset is a WEIRD issue since it's "calculated" and there's no sensor tied to it... And it happens A LOT. Like, every 400-600 miles.

No, I haven't taken it to the dealer, because "there's no code, we can't help" crap. And there's really no other option.

I thought MAYBE it could be a rodent issue, as I had found rodent food leftovers at one point, but no real damage. More recently I was doing brake work, opened up the center console to loosen the parking brake cable, and found more food leftovers. So, I decided to pull out the ENTIRE interior up to the dash and NO WIRING ISSUES.... I'm still going to check in the cabin air intake area and all up in the dash, but my initial findings don't show anything wrong there.

So anyway, on a hunch a while ago, I replaced the Gateway Module (this device interconnects ALL the CANBUS networks and is what the OBDII port is attached to. This actually fixed the issue, for about 2k miles. Then the same things. So I swapped back to the original one.

Right now the BCM is out of the truck. I'm trying to figure out if I can re-program a new one myself via forscan.... and just replace it....

My only other option is to data log the RAW Canbus streams and hope that I can catch an error of some kind and trace it back to a faulty module.

I'm just.... so tired of this crap.

Just Curious-I'm thinking of doing a preemptive strike on protecting the cab from mice entry, I know about the -Air Inlet Door allowing access point but how are they getting under the center console. After reading through this forum, it appears quite common. I'm going to add a screen under the cowl, any other areas to mod to create a barrier?

 

[WLFPIR8]

i dont mean to add any aggravation to the issue. in my youth i worked at a body shop and took apart plenty of door panels and swapped out connections. i never would have started with bcm first or complicated bits in major harnesses. a lots changed im old now lol. is it just me or starting with the door and its connections - much easier to get into and check stuff vs. bcm up under dash roughing up the interior- seem like a easier start. i bet ford techs have to follow a step by step of what to try when. I am happy for you they are at least working at it.

For me, those are things I've already checked. I had a seat issue where the seatbelt sensor wasn't working and a re-seat of the connector fixed it. There were reports on these trucks of smashed/bent pins in connectors. So it's something I keep an eye out for. I can be really hard to know what goes where without a diagram though. I've grown to really hate the "modern tech" in vehicles as it's just miles of wires. Oh well...

 

[WLFPIR8]

Just Curious-I'm thinking of doing a preemptive strike on protecting the cab from mice entry, I know about the -Air Inlet Door allowing access point but how are they getting under the center console. After reading through this forum, it appears quite common. I'm going to add a screen under the cowl, any other areas to mod to create a barrier?

From what I've found.... That's really the only entry point big enough for anything to get in. And in that case, it's basically open behind the wheel liner, into that cowling area. There's the vents in the rear behind the seats, but I don't see anything easily getting in there. The cabin is otherwise pretty well sealed.

 

[airline tech]

Just a quick thought - chiming in with 9zero, and noted you stated your IPC resets itself at random.
Well, the IPC powers up when you open the door, quite POSSIBLE bad door switch, and switch is sending signal to IPC that the door is opening while you're driving - thus repowering the IPC
Just curious if you were to open door while moving at 30 mph or so what the IPC will do, might be a quick check for T-Shoot

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