TSB 20-2277 2019-2020 Ranger - Shudder/Vibration When Accelerating From A Stop

TSB 20-2277 Poll


  • Total voters
    193

P. A. Schilke

Well-Known Member
First Name
Phil
Joined
Apr 3, 2019
Threads
141
Messages
7,012
Reaction score
36,167
Location
GV Arizona
Vehicle(s)
2019 Ranger FX4 Lariat 4x4, 2020 Lincoln Nautilus, 2005 Alfa Motorhome
Occupation
Engineer Retired
Vehicle Showcase
1
Took this video today. I am sure under load things are much different, but unfortunately a highway video is hard to do with just an iphone. Smooth as silk all the way until you reach interstate speeds above 70mph. Then it is the exact same high speed vibration you feel when driving. I did this to confirm it is NOT unbalanced tires.

Definitely not start up shudder if you describe it as above 70mph. Helpful to know the frequency of the vibration and your dealer Tech with their NVH equipment should be able to determine. It could be tire ovality which is not balance. Or out of round rim... just guessing until it is possible to pin down the frequency of the vibration and the engine rpm as well as vehicle speed. Also, what does your calibrated assometer indicate where the vibration emanates? Front or rear, Left or right or center?

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retred
Sponsored

 

Milkmaster

Active Member
First Name
Milkmaster
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Threads
3
Messages
25
Reaction score
54
Location
Alcatraz
Vehicle(s)
2020 Ranger
Definitely not start up shudder if you describe it as above 70mph. Helpful to know the frequency of the vibration and your dealer Tech with their NVH equipment should be able to determine. It could be tire ovality which is not balance. Or out of round rim... just guessing until it is possible to pin down the frequency of the vibration and the engine rpm as well as vehicle speed. Also, what does your calibrated assometer indicate where the vibration emanates? Front or rear, Left or right or center?

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retred
3rd set of tires. The tire shop took special care with me watching to force balance the 3rd set that were hand chosen from 14 tires in stock. I feel pretty confident these tires are great. Biggest riding improvement was dropping the PSI down to 32. That helped overall ride a great deal. Now I am just trying to find the vibration problem. People drive in the upper 70's and lower 80's on the freeways around here. That is exactly where the worst vibration happens with this truck since the day I bought it. 3 sets of tires and that vibration has not changed. SO today I did the test you see in the video. Running at different speeds with my hands on various places to see what I could feel. No rough pavement nor other factors to interfere. I was actually surprised how smooth it ran until about 79-80MPH. My ass feels it in my seat mostly when driving. Feeling of the frame beneath at that speed feels like the problem is more towards the transmission and NOT towards the pinion end of things.

Kinda strange thing today. Mostly smooth making a trip this morning down the freeway to see my mom about 35 miles away. I get in the truck 2 hours later to come home and the vibrations were as bad as they get. Also seems to be a little less when a person is riding in the passenger seat. I don't know if the weight has something to do with it or not. I have tried center bearing shims up to 1/4" with mixed results. I will think they work until the next time I make a trip and find out it is no better than it was before. There are no shims etc in the driveline now before I made the video. I just wanted to see it run and check any major run out I could determine.

The vibrations never have felt like it was a tire problem. It shows up a little sometimes at slower speeds where tires would not be creating a frequency that high. These slow highway speed but higher freq vibrations aren't really bad enough to complain about overall, but they seem to come from and resemble the same worse vibrations at high speeds. That's why I notice them. They are felt when starting off out of the driveway especially if the turning angle is sharp. But it is higher freq than tires at that time.

I am out of ideas for now other than to trade the darn thing. Thanks for letting me vent.
 
Last edited:

P. A. Schilke

Well-Known Member
First Name
Phil
Joined
Apr 3, 2019
Threads
141
Messages
7,012
Reaction score
36,167
Location
GV Arizona
Vehicle(s)
2019 Ranger FX4 Lariat 4x4, 2020 Lincoln Nautilus, 2005 Alfa Motorhome
Occupation
Engineer Retired
Vehicle Showcase
1
3rd set of tires. The tire shop took special care with me watching to force balance the 3rd set that were hand chosen from 14 tires in stock. I feel pretty confident these tires are great. Biggest riding improvement was dropping the PSI down to 32. That helped overall ride a great deal. Now I am just trying to find the vibration problem. People drive in the upper 70's and lower 80's on the freeways around here. That is exactly where the worst vibration happens with this truck since the day I bought it. 3 sets of tires and that vibration has not changed. SO today I did the test you see in the video. Running at different speeds with my hands on various places to see what I could feel. No rough pavement nor other factors to interfere. I was actually surprised how smooth it ran until about 79-80MPH. My ass feels it in my seat mostly when driving. Feeling of the frame beneath at that speed feels like the problem is more towards the transmission and NOT towards the pinion end of things.

Kinda strange thing today. Mostly smooth making a trip this morning down the freeway to see my mom about 35 miles away. I get in the truck 2 hours later to come home and the vibrations were as bad as they get. Also seems to be a little less when a person is riding in the passenger seat. I don't know if the weight has something to do with it or not. I have tried center bearing shims up to 1/4" with mixed results. I will think they work until the next time I make a trip and find out it is no better than it was before. There are no shims etc in the driveline now before I made the video. I just wanted to see it run and check any major run out I could determine.

The vibrations never have felt like it was a tire problem. It shows up a little sometimes at slower speeds where tires would not be creating a frequency that high. These slow highway speed but higher freq vibrations aren't really bad enough to complain about overall, but they seem to come from and resemble the same worse vibrations at high speeds. That's why I notice them. They are felt when starting off out of the driveway especially if the turning angle is sharp. But it is higher freq than tires at that time.

I am out of ideas for now other than to trade the darn thing. Thanks for letting me vent.
Hi MM,

The key element here is an out of round wheel. I would investigate this by rotating the tire/wheels and see if it changes. You are correct....not likely driveshaft related. Again...if 2nd order and not tires...then it is likely wheel related.

I sometimes wish I could have my equipment with me and fly to the vehicle as we would likely zero on the problem quickly....that is why the dealership NVH hardware was created, but is only is good as the tech assigned to operate it is.... See...if the frequency is a multiple of 3.73, then it is driveline as this is the axle ratio but this frequency at 70mph is like a buzz, not a vibration, so I focus on wheel tire. Want to try something different...drop the spare and put it at different positions and see if it changes the vibration or makes it go away. If it does...the where the spare is located means the wheel/tire is suspect and needs further investigation. Again, just a thought, but use the dealer as a first resort until the prove inadequate to assist you.

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
 

Milkmaster

Active Member
First Name
Milkmaster
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Threads
3
Messages
25
Reaction score
54
Location
Alcatraz
Vehicle(s)
2020 Ranger
even though they took this great care to find some special tires, its clear its just band-aiding the problem still.
I am not sure I understand what you are saying.

They put the wheels themselves on the machine to check for balance and any run out. Then the tires were mounted onto the wheels and balanced. Then they did the road force balancing. All turned out well. How would you find a bad wheel/rim otherwise?

The vibration hasn't changed one bit through 3 sets of tires.
 

navsnipe

Well-Known Member
First Name
Dave
Joined
Sep 6, 2020
Threads
4
Messages
440
Reaction score
890
Location
Rockland County, NY
Vehicle(s)
20 Ranger FX4 Lariat (totaled), 23 Audi Q5
Occupation
Automating Buildings and confusing humans
I am not sure I understand what you are saying.

They put the wheels themselves on the machine to check for balance and any run out. Then the tires were mounted onto the wheels and balanced. Then they did the road force balancing. All turned out well. How would you find a bad wheel/rim otherwise?

The vibration hasn't changed one bit through 3 sets of tires.
I remember one person posted the lug nut holes were mis-drilled on a wheel causing an out of round situation that a wheel balancer will not detect since it is using the center hole on the wheel to mount to the machine. I don't remember if the issue was aftermarket or stock wheel.
 


Jrel209

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2020
Threads
16
Messages
497
Reaction score
815
Location
Wa
Vehicle(s)
2020 Ranger XLT crew cab
Man.... this is my first Ford and i'm kind of displeased with their service dept already, also didnt have the best exp w/ their sales depts in most dealers I went too. Only positive exp were the two dealers almost 50miles away hah.

In any case, i've called the two nearest dealers to me to address my shudder/vibration on take-off and the cold-start issue (issues are starting to pile on), and both told me to go to where I purchased the vehicle........ Is this something new lol?
 

ChiefQM

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Jun 18, 2020
Threads
4
Messages
150
Reaction score
177
Location
Hiram, GA
Vehicle(s)
2019 Ford Ranger XLT
Occupation
Retired
Every single time I have taken my vehicle in for service, I have been asked that. With the issues I have had, you think they would know by now where I bought the damn thing!! I got the same question from the dealer I went to for a second opinion. I hadn't noticed that taking it back to the dealer I bought it from did me any favors.
 

Jrel209

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2020
Threads
16
Messages
497
Reaction score
815
Location
Wa
Vehicle(s)
2020 Ranger XLT crew cab
Every single time I have taken my vehicle in for service, I have been asked that. With the issues I have had, you think they would know by now where I bought the damn thing!! I got the same question from the dealer I went to for a second opinion. I hadn't noticed that taking it back to the dealer I bought it from did me any favors.
Interesting, so maybe it is something new. I dont purchase vehicles often, so was kind of confused why they were asking that and responding w/ "take it back there," like why should it matter where i purchased it....yall FORD right?
 

Rp930

Well-Known Member
First Name
Rick
Joined
Nov 19, 2018
Threads
19
Messages
1,539
Reaction score
2,908
Location
Denver
Vehicle(s)
‘19 Ford Ranger Lariat,MB GLK250,’21 Shelby GT500
Occupation
Retired
Man.... this is my first Ford and i'm kind of displeased with their service dept already, also didnt have the best exp w/ their sales depts in most dealers I went too. Only positive exp were the two dealers almost 50miles away hah.

In any case, i've called the two nearest dealers to me to address my shudder/vibration on take-off and the cold-start issue (issues are starting to pile on), and both told me to go to where I purchased the vehicle........ Is this something new lol?
Nothing new. They just don’t want to be bothered with a problem.

Problem cars are a problem for everybody. Inevitably it always ends up a loser for the technician and the shop. And if you think the tech gets paid for every minute he spends on it you have not been a dealer tech. He could be flat rating another car, making more than 100% of his time or working on a problem car making straight time or less.
 
Last edited:

ChiefQM

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Jun 18, 2020
Threads
4
Messages
150
Reaction score
177
Location
Hiram, GA
Vehicle(s)
2019 Ford Ranger XLT
Occupation
Retired
Nothing new. They just don’t want to be bothered with a problem.

Problem cars are a problem for everybody. Inevitably it always ends up a loser for the technician and the shop. And if you think the tech gets paid for every minute he spends on it you have not been a dealer tech. He could be flat rating another car, making more than 100% of his time or working on a problem car making straight time or less.
In a moment of unguarded honesty, the shop foreman at the dealer where I bought it told me that he didn't want to pay his techs the warranty rate to diagnose issues that Ford swears are "operating as designed". He also told me that my issue was the "worst he had ever experienced". That was right before he told me that even though my truck didn't need it, they would do the TSB to add shims. Yep, they did it, shoved some shims in to shut me up, but not in accordance with the TSB. I give up until the truck breaks and they have to fix it or I find out through this forum what the proper repair should be.
 

BlueXLT

Member
First Name
Wes
Joined
Mar 3, 2021
Threads
1
Messages
8
Reaction score
19
Location
California
Vehicle(s)
2020 Ranger XLT
I had the TSB done yesterday, it fixed probably 75% of the problem. I've got the luxury of having another ranger accessible to me (my dad owns one) to compare to.

His doesn't have the shudder at low speed like mine was experiencing. His is a Lariat 2WD, and mine is a XLT FX2. I believe the remaining contributing factor in the shuddering is the suspension on my truck, it's harsher than my dad's lariat. Washboard type surfaces my truck feels like it's going to skip off the road. I am not sure how to prove it without swapping out suspension pieces though.
 

MIBuckeye

Well-Known Member
First Name
Chris
Joined
Apr 14, 2021
Threads
16
Messages
252
Reaction score
478
Location
Grass Lake, MI
Vehicle(s)
2021 Ranger Lariat Tremor
My new Tremor is having this done tomorrow...not a happy camper about this. It is so annoyingly pronounced at all speed ranges...particularly 0-20 45-50 and 85-up....cannot believe that driveline balance is still a problem these days...you'd have thought we moved beyond this on a $50K vehicle....
 

jamo147

Member
First Name
Jim
Joined
Jan 9, 2021
Threads
0
Messages
7
Reaction score
11
Location
Connecticut
Vehicle(s)
2020 Ford Ranger XLT
Occupation
Engineer
I have a 2020 XLT Sport and have had the start up shudder right from the beginning. Originally they told me it was normal so I let it slide but it annoys me. I’ve been reading through all these posts and especially appreciate the insight that Phil Schilke provides. I too am an engineer but not in automotive industry so the logical perspective makes a lot of sense. The interesting thing is that my experiences mirror those of others. Initially the shudder got worse as the fuel tank emptied. It completely disappeared if I loaded the bed with ~500 lbs. interestingly I left 500 lbs in the bed for 1 week and it must have permanently deformed the leaf springs to some extent. Because when I unloaded the truck, the shudder came back but not as bad and was no longer sensitive to fuel levels. I brought my truck into the dealer and asked them to lower the back 1.5” since that fixed the issue. They are doing the TSB again (I guess they can’t just lower the rear)… they say there is an update. I am hoping the pinion angle adjustment will effectively do what the suspension lowering did. Either way I know there is a fix, just gotta get them to do it.
 

20lariat4x4

Active Member
First Name
Cameron
Joined
Mar 14, 2021
Threads
1
Messages
29
Reaction score
50
Location
Tennessee
Vehicle(s)
2020 Ranger Lariat 4x4 (stock)
Occupation
Cardiovascular ICU RN
Update:

Measured all my operating angles.

From front to rear-
Transmission flange angles down at -3.3.
Front drive shaft angles down at -9.2.
Rear drive shaft angles down at -6.5.
Rear pinion flange angles down at -5.0.

This provides 3 operating angles where these parts join.

-5.9 transmission to front drive shaft.
+2.7 front shaft to rear shaft.
+1.5 rear shaft to rear pinion.

Rules from the manual (section 205-01 (Driveshaft Angle Measurement) for driveline angles:

“6. NOTE:
l The U-joint operating angle is the angle formed by 2 yokes connected by a cross and bearing
kit. Ideally, the operating angles on each connection of the driveshaft must:

1. be equal or within one degree of each other.
2. have a 3 degree maximum operating angle.
3. have at least one-half of one degree continuous operating angle.

7. If the angle is not within specifications, repair or adjust to obtain the correct angle. Inspect the engine mounts, transmission mounts, center support bearing mounting, rear suspension, rear axle, rear axle mounting or the frame for wear or damage”

According to these rules (as well as speed limits on U-joint angles factoring in max driveshaft RPM from Dana Spicer) my operating angles are all off.

These angles are with the 18mm of center bearing drop and 0.5 degree shims to tilt the rear pinion flange down. I want to tilt the transmission down to shrink the 5.9 operating angle. Tilting the transmission down will also decrease the angle of my front shaft, in turn decreasing my center (2.7) operating angle- hopefully enough to be within 1 degree of the rear operating angle of 1.5.


How do the negative vs positive operating angles affect balance? Was everything within these specs before the bearing drop or pinion shim? Time for some trigonometry…
And by trigonometry I mean whiskey.

71F11D1A-20A9-49C0-9B90-F1821765488B.jpeg
 

Rangerguy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2020
Threads
4
Messages
170
Reaction score
537
Location
Canada
Vehicle(s)
2019 XLT SuperCrew
Update:

Measured all my operating angles.

From front to rear-
Transmission flange angles down at -3.3.
Front drive shaft angles down at -9.2.
Rear drive shaft angles down at -6.5.
Rear pinion flange angles down at -5.0.

This provides 3 operating angles where these parts join.

-5.9 transmission to front drive shaft.
+2.7 front shaft to rear shaft.
+1.5 rear shaft to rear pinion.

Rules from the manual (section 205-01 (Driveshaft Angle Measurement) for driveline angles:

“6. NOTE:
l The U-joint operating angle is the angle formed by 2 yokes connected by a cross and bearing
kit. Ideally, the operating angles on each connection of the driveshaft must:

1. be equal or within one degree of each other.
2. have a 3 degree maximum operating angle.
3. have at least one-half of one degree continuous operating angle.

7. If the angle is not within specifications, repair or adjust to obtain the correct angle. Inspect the engine mounts, transmission mounts, center support bearing mounting, rear suspension, rear axle, rear axle mounting or the frame for wear or damage”

According to these rules (as well as speed limits on U-joint angles factoring in max driveshaft RPM from Dana Spicer) my operating angles are all off.

These angles are with the 18mm of center bearing drop and 0.5 degree shims to tilt the rear pinion flange down. I want to tilt the transmission down to shrink the 5.9 operating angle. Tilting the transmission down will also decrease the angle of my front shaft, in turn decreasing my center (2.7) operating angle- hopefully enough to be within 1 degree of the rear operating angle of 1.5.


How do the negative vs positive operating angles affect balance? Was everything within these specs before the bearing drop or pinion shim? Time for some trigonometry…
And by trigonometry I mean whiskey.

71F11D1A-20A9-49C0-9B90-F1821765488B.jpeg
No wonder they vibrate -- so many angles. After all the work, mine has gone from distressing, to maybe I can live with it, to I'm quite happy with it. Seems within "normal" for a vehicle now.
Sponsored

 
 



Top