WEAK FRAME!?!?

[hawk43]

Glad she is ok....Truck did what it was supposed to do imo... It has a fully boxed frame and is actually a real truck....And if one truck was going 25 and the other going 15 that is same as 40 mph...and will tear up stuff..

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[HoosierT]

That car had to have going more than 25mph. This was the result of a car turning in front of me and I got slowed down from 45 to around 20-25mph. $8.5k and no frame damage.

 

[Texasota]

For reference, the front passenger door won't open due to the bent frame, though the vehicle was still driveable and my brother drove it to the body shop.

I'm worried about our insurance rates once the insurance companies realize a 25mph crash results in a totaled vehicle. I've known lots of people in wrecks, but never have seen a new and expensive vehicle totaled so easily.

I guess I'm odd man out wishing the frame could withstand more impact while having the body and safety devices absorb the forces. It makes me wonder if some of those rally videos we see will result in bent frames too.

Insurance companies would much rather deal with damaged vehicle frames then damaged human bodies and personal injury lawyers.

 

[Kevin Franklin]

I'll give you an expert opinion if you want one and if you accept it. A couple of items to make sure we are one the same page. First off, that is not a 25 MPH impact. My 30 plus years in collision and structural repair experience indicates far greater speed was involved causing that damage. Angle of impact is highly important as well. The truck did it's job and you should be thankful for that. I enjoy performing a frame swap. That's the easy part. The other damage that is present can/could be a tremendous amount of work. If a qualified tech is in charge of the repair, the truck will be fine. That's the unknown factor in the situation. In Kentucky, you have the right to pick your repair facility. Would I personally be comfortable performing the repair, absolutely. I've seen other so-called techs that I wouldn't trust to repair my wheelbarrow. It's the same in any job. Some people care, some don't. That's why malpractice insurance exist because not all medical doctors are created equal. Do some research and choose your repair facility wisely, drive it and then decide if you are comfortable with it.

 

[Cape Cruiser]

I have a friend that works at a very large Ford dealer body shop(52 bays) and that is all he does is frame replacements usually on F150-f450 Explorers and Excursions and Expeditions.Flat rate pays in the high 30 hour range for labor. He does 1.5 per week.

 

[viperwolf]

Hi Greg,

Sorry to see your brother's misfortune. The frame goes through quite a bit of pre prototype analysis to ensure it absorbs a lot of the energy of a crash. Then quite few prototypes are pulled into the wall, Parked sideways and have a sled waited down sled pulled into the sides. I think that the frame did its job to reduce the energy pulse into the driver's compartment...the unfortunate "side effect" is damaged frame beyond repair. There are frame stubs for both front and rear as well, but it would be better in my opinion to total the vehicle, Let some body shop rebuild it and get your brother out of the headache...

Good Luck!


Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co.

Yeah I agree, Like most here. That looks harder then a 25mph hit. Im not afraid of the repairs itself, but more afraid of the person doing the repairs. Its either hit or miss unless you know their work personally.
For me, I would want them to total it and be done. Just knowing that there may still be something bent or out of shape that is hidden would drive me crazy. Plus, maybe you can get a newer unit faster than having that one repaired. You also have to consider, no one can see everything, we dont know if the shock from the impact weakened anything else in the drivetrain or powertrain.

 

[uthunter]

I'm glad everybody is okay with the frame being damaged, it makes me feel a bit better. Thank you!

If one truck was going 25 and the other going 15 that is same as 40 mph...and will tear up stuff..

One point of information since it's a common misconception... the above assumption is incorrect. For example sake, let's say two Rangers hit each other head-on at 25mph each. The misconception is that is the same force as a 50mph collision, which is sort of true, but the point of the example is incorrect because that collision force isn't inflicted on one vehicle, its divided by the two vehicles resulting in each sustaining damage equal to the original 25mph. There are variabilities with mass, but let's say the vehicles are equal, or close to it, since the discussion is about velocity's relationship to damage and not mass... plus that would get us into a whole discussion on KE vs Momentum which can go on forever.

There was a whole Mythbusters episode specifically disproving the common misconception that you add the velocities together if anybody cares to find it.

Thanks again for making me feel better about the Ranger frames!

 

[P. A. Schilke]

Yeah I agree, Like most here. That looks harder then a 25mph hit. Im not afraid of the repairs itself, but more afraid of the person doing the repairs. Its either hit or miss unless you know their work personally.
For me, I would want them to total it and be done. Just knowing that there may still be something bent or out of shape that is hidden would drive me crazy. Plus, maybe you can get a newer unit faster than having that one repaired. You also have to consider, no one can see everything, we dont know if the shock from the impact weakened anything else in the drivetrain or powertrain.

Okay Folks,

Another Back Story. I was on loan to Automotive Emissions and Fuel Economy Office for three years...Not an assignment I relished, but I was needed to deal with the California Air Resources Board..CARB. They were implementing an inspection program and I was there to ensure the Fords they were testing were as close to OEM as possible and if needed, fix the vehicles...Since I was a mechanic before I got my Traindriver's degree I was unique in Ford, or so my boss told me... Anyway....We got a notice from the EPA that we built a truck without the fuel restrictor in the filler neck for unleded fuel, This was back in the day when both leaded and unleaded were available and leaded destroyed the Catalytic converters. The Vehicle was in Texas. The EPA demanded we recall all the model year trucks for inspection and repair...some 500,000 units.
I was handed the job of figuring out what happened. So having the truck's vin, I had Ford records pull the final inspection sheet from the assembly plant and it showed the inspector signed off on a fuel filler pipe with the restriction. Now puzzled I called the dealer to which this unit, several years old now, was delivered. Dealer indicated it was traded to another dealer...so called this dealer, they indicated they sold the unit to a customer. I asked if they could possibly find the salesman that sold the vehicle and see if he/she could provide any info. Got a call back from the dealer with an amazing story...The old veteran salesman remembered the customer very well as he and the customer closed the deal, the customer was handed the keys and drove out the driveway into traffic and was T-boned by a semi Truck, totaling the truck. Now this was becoming really weird. The salesman also had the info that the vehicle sat on their lot while the insurance company decided what to do, and the truck was sold to Action Auto Wrecking. Action was famous for taking pieces of similar vehicles an assenbling them into something resembling a vehicle. So what happened was Action took the cab off the bent frame..repaird the rear cab back panel and hung a new door of a different color truck of around the same vintage..then salvaged a pickup box from yet a third wreck of a different model year that did not even match the style of the truck...this pickup box was from a time before unleaded fuel...so I had the answer of why this truck had an incorrect filler. The reason that all this came about was the purchaser of the truck, a migrant farm worker, was it was such a POS that he wanted his money back but Action sent him away and he or someone he knew got the bright idea to report this to the EPA as misbuild in hopes the EPA would force Ford to pay for the truck.

Short story from here. Relayed this to Corporate Legal...they took it from there and politely told the EPA to shove it.. Get their facts strait before demanding a model year recall.... Sheesh!

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retried

 

[Deleted member 1634]

I'm glad everybody is okay with the frame being damaged, it makes me feel a bit better. Thank you!



One point of information since it's a common misconception... the above assumption is incorrect. For example sake, let's say two Rangers hit each other head-on at 25mph each. The misconception is that is the same force as a 50mph collision, which is sort of true, but the point of the example is incorrect because that collision force isn't inflicted on one vehicle, its divided by the two vehicles resulting in each sustaining damage equal to the original 25mph. There are variabilities with mass, but let's say the vehicles are equal, or close to it, since the discussion is about velocity's relationship to damage and not mass... plus that would get us into a whole discussion on KE vs Momentum which can go on forever.

There was a whole Mythbusters episode specifically disproving the common misconception that you add the velocities together if anybody cares to find it.

Thanks again for making me feel better about the Ranger frames!

It makes for a good physics problem but, as is often the case, the physics you learn about in school is hardly close to real life.

 

[viperwolf]

Okay Folks,



Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retried

You have more stories like this? I like reading these.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

You have more stories like this? I like reading these.

Hi Alex,

If you search the forums for Back Stories, you will likely find many more and I have more to come..maybe...I read a post and it rings a bell of something that was part of my Ford career and I try to share it with the Forum members to give them insight into the behind the scenes of being in an Automotive company. Thanks for you comments...

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[uthunter]

this the one UT?

That's it. Thanks for digging that up!

Those guys had brilliantly simple ways of making confusing scenarios easy to understand. Something like Newton's 3rd suddenly makes sense and they prove it with the theory, then the math, then a scale model, and then in real life. It was a great show.

 

[t4thfavor]

I'm glad everybody is okay with the frame being damaged, it makes me feel a bit better. Thank you!



One point of information since it's a common misconception... the above assumption is incorrect. For example sake, let's say two Rangers hit each other head-on at 25mph each. The misconception is that is the same force as a 50mph collision, which is sort of true, but the point of the example is incorrect because that collision force isn't inflicted on one vehicle, its divided by the two vehicles resulting in each sustaining damage equal to the original 25mph. There are variabilities with mass, but let's say the vehicles are equal, or close to it, since the discussion is about velocity's relationship to damage and not mass... plus that would get us into a whole discussion on KE vs Momentum which can go on forever.

There was a whole Mythbusters episode specifically disproving the common misconception that you add the velocities together if anybody cares to find it.

Thanks again for making me feel better about the Ranger frames!

Let’s say one vehicle weighs 1.5x the other. One takes more hit than the other. Same of one vehicle is moving and one is not, the stationary one takes more than the moving one due to energy transfer maths.

 

[DMK45]

My brother bought his first brand new truck two weeks ago. It still has the temp sticker in the window waiting for the license plates to arrive.

Last week his wife didn't see a car traveling down a 25mph road and pulled in front of it, hitting the drivers side front quarter panel.

The bids are back from the body shop as well as the independent insurance adjuster... $28,800. Frame is damaged beyond repair and they want to get a new frame and move the entire truck over to it. My brother is fighting to get it totaled so he doesn't have to deal with the problems from the frame switch; but we don't know what will happen yet.

I'm more than a little bothered that this impact, which didn't even cause an airbag deployment, resulted in fatal frame damage. Thoughts?

Truck did its job. No weak frames on these..they are rated to tow 7500lbs! Tell ur brother ..an glad his lady Is ok ..the truck took a HARD hit. Get it totaled an get another Ranger!

 

[UncleBob]

I am thinking too much attention given to the 25 mph figure. The original post mentioned it was on a 25 mph “road”. The implication was the truck was going at that speed but that seems doubtful based on the photo of the damage.

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