Think I Threw a Rod....

[DuckDCoy]

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[D Fresh]

Man, I feel for you. Have you got any quotes from private garages to do the engine swap? Hopefully, you find this route to be way cheaper than what the Ford dealer is charging. It seems to be very evident that the Ford dealer is taking you for a ride here with price gouging. As for being screwed, yes you are possibly out a bunch of money for a motor swap. As far as resale goes, if the motor swap is done correctly, I don’t think you are going to take much of a resale hit at all. It is not like we’re talking about a vehicle that was in a major accident or has a salvage title. Those would look far worse on the title.

IF Stage 4 Star pays for it under his insurance they will only pay a Ford dealership to do it.

 

[JimG_AZ]

IF Stage 4 Star pays for it under his insurance they will only pay a Ford dealership to do it.

Lets just see about that if the bill comes out to $14k.

 

[Blue Streak]

I have been following this thread to see if I can try to understand something I know nothing about. I am starting to understand that there is more to it than us average guy's & gals will ever know. That being said, I have learned thru life to never say never. Like the old saying goes ( if that dog has teeth that dog can bite). Coming from a mechanical background anything produced by man can fail & things not produced by man can fail also. Still reading & learning.

 

[D Fresh]

ok, i guess i have to refer to electrons in my thinking.
the tune itself changes the computer, this is why i say it's bullet proof. if wont just change parameters, or at least it shouldnt unless some electromagnetic pulse from russia sprays over continental north america. so in that sense...the tune didnt fail. thats why i say its bullet proof. if it was working well yesterday, last week or the day he installed it, as long as nothing else changed, it should keep doing its thing as programmed. (assuming it has a good program to begin with)

That's a big assumption to make. Who's to say he hasn't had knock events or preignition the entire time and it finally caught up?

The tune DID change with every new mod.

Without seeing datalogs you are only assuming, you know what happens when you assume.

 

[Rp930]

Makes me wonder if they are licensed to sell insurance. And what’s your recourse to get a claim paid.

 

[Doc]

Uh ..

 

[Trigganometry]

Uh ..

 

[NeptuneRanger]

Makes me wonder if they are licensed to sell insurance. And what’s your recourse to get a claim paid.

Jeepers... I come to this blog to get away from work and here I am on a Saturday chiming in on insurance.

There are warranties, service contracts and insurance products. They operate in a similar fashion but are different legally. A warranty is typically free and comes with the purchase of a service or good. Other posters referenced the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (MMWA) which applies to warranties. An extended warranty aka service contract is paid for separately falls into a different category and is subject a plethora of unique rules and regs. Insurance is defined as "a contractual relationship that exists when one party (the insurer) for a consideration (the premium) agrees to reimburse another party (the insured) for loss to a specified subject (the risk) caused by designated contingencies (hazards or perils)."

To my knowledge the only state that defines a warranty to be insurance is Florida. Each state department of insurance may or may not regulate service contracts, even so they are typically held to a lower standard than insurance products.

Just for fun I read the warranty contract (actually an extended warranty or service contract in my opinion) in this case line by line. I thought it was clear and well written, the buyer was advised to read it carefully. I can see a market for such a contract. Again I have no affiliation with Stage 3, never spoken with or met anyone there, just an outside observer. They seem like straight shooters and from what I can see based on the loyalty of the OP and others, a reputable company. With over 25 years of experience in the insurance field I have a pretty good understanding of insurance contracts. I am not an attorney, just one guy typing on a friendly blog on a Saturday morning, this is not professional advice, just my personal opinion.

I don't believe the OP has any recourse that will hold up against the tuning company which explains why they are working to help with Ford, although I believe that door is also closed based on the modifications to the truck.

Even if the tune were found to be the source of the issue, there is one clause in the contract that is very clear. Limited Warranty will be voided if..

3H "Damages caused by the continued operation of an impaired vehicle and the Covered Components driven to destruction. It is Your sole responsibility to use all necessary precautions to protect the Vehicle from further damage if the Vehicle's operation is impaired. Continued operation of an impaired vehicle after any mechanical failure constitutes a failure to protect the Vehicle from further damage and is negligence by the Owner of the vehicle, thereby voiding this Limited Warranty"

I totally feel for OP on the 5am, bad neighborhood situation, but once the truck oil pressure light came on and he heard clank clank clank, the truck needed to stay put. Driving it home may have sealed his fate. For safety reasons, he may have made the right choice, but not for financial reasons. Also, once he said ‘in my heart of hearts I don't think the tune caused this’ on a national blog, he also weakened his recourse position.

This is a learning lesson for everyone, I truly hope my opinion is wrong and the car gods will give him a new motor. OP is good dude and IMO has great taste in vehicles, I also drive VWs. Best of luck to the OP and thanks letting us in on your experience.

 

[D Fresh]

That's a big assumption to make. Who's to say he hasn't had knock events or preignition the entire time and it finally caught up?

he may have, but the tune he bought was tuned on a dyno as part of their testing and would they release it if it did? be suicide as a business to not have initially tested the product for that kind of impending failure.

The tune DID change with every new mod.

the tune did not change, yet it needed to be changed, thats the whole point i think i am trying to make. if he did further mods, and had no changes, then the mods, not the tune caused it. hence the comment that we could argue the mods to death. I believe the tune functioned as programmed, even if the programming became wrong over time.


Without seeing datalogs you are only assuming, you know what happens when you assume.

thats fine. assumptions and speculations are a dime a dozen around here until some real facts are presented. and theres nothing wrong with that at all, it fosters discussion even if it goes off the rails at times.
If Ford accessed the datalogs, perhaps they never even cracked the engine open at all. maybe that told the whole story.

The OP specifically said he received a new tune with each mod, as per his insurance contract. If YOUR reading comprehension was as good as your snark you would've read from the OP that there were no mods installed without a "new" (according to 5 star) tune.

An OTS tune made for one truck may or may not be safe for all vehicles.

I think your "feeling" that the tune is "bulletproof" stems from a lack of understanding of how an OTS tune works, what it does, and the compromises they entail.

If anybody reading this is using a remote tuner they should be having their tuner look @ datalogs to ensure the tune meets their vehicle, fuel, and conditions requirements. And any time a change is made, doing it again. As you can see, I'm no fan of "remote" Tuning. But at least we have a couple available who do it "right."

An OTS tune, even tweaked with datalogs, is NEVER going to be as safe as a custom road or dyno tune.

A "tune" that is just copypasta from one truck to another is not even a tune. It's a wild ass guess that "this should work."

Of course, now I'm making assumptions. But without input from 5 Star on how their tunes are developed we don't have any idea.

We do know that the OP has informed us that Stage 5 never asked for datalogs, nor did he provide them. THIS IS A PROBLEM.

Whether you "feel" that is or not.

 

[D Fresh]

3H "Damages caused by the continued operation of an impaired vehicle and the Covered Components driven to destruction. It is Your sole responsibility to use all necessary precautions to protect the Vehicle from further damage if the Vehicle's operation is impaired. Continued operation of an impaired vehicle after any mechanical failure constitutes a failure to protect the Vehicle from further damage and is negligence by the Owner of the vehicle, thereby voiding this Limited Warranty"

I totally feel for OP on the 5am, bad neighborhood situation, but once the truck oil pressure light came on and he heard clank clank clank, the truck needed to stay put. Driving it home may have sealed his fate.

Ouch...


That one might hurt a lot.

 

[Trigganometry]

The OP specifically said he received a new tune with each mod, as per his insurance contract. If YOUR reading comprehension was as good as your snark you would've read from the OP that there were no mods installed without a "new" (according to 5 star) tune.

An OTS tune made for one truck may or may not be safe for all vehicles.

I think your "feeling" that the tune is "bulletproof" stems from a lack of understanding of how an OTS tune works, what it does, and the compromises they entail.

If anybody reading this is using a remote tuner they should be having their tuner look @ datalogs to ensure the tune meets their vehicle, fuel, and conditions requirements. And any time a change is made, doing it again. As you can see, I'm no fan of "remote" Tuning. But at least we have a couple available who do it "right."

An OTS tune, even tweaked with datalogs, is NEVER going to be as safe as a custom road or dyno tune.

A "tune" that is just copypasta from one truck to another is not even a tune. It's a wild ass guess that "this should work."

Of course, now I'm making assumptions. But without input from 5 Star on how their tunes are developed we don't have any idea.

We do know that the OP has informed us that Stage 5 never asked for datalogs, nor did he provide them. THIS IS A PROBLEM.

Whether you "feel" that is or not.

Think you’re getting a little ahead of yourself here. As was previously stated in this thread it’s in Fords hands ATM. They should have a field service engineer attached to this case. If not then that’s the first question to be answered. From that point it’s up to him or her to ascertain root cause and draft a report. This I’m assuming would have photos, data logs and any other relevant information. Now, until this occurs it’s purely speculation from any other party at this point.

 

[D Fresh]

Think you’re getting a little ahead of yourself here. As was previously stated in this thread it’s in Fords hands ATM. They should have a field service engineer attached to this case. If not then that’s the first question to be answered. From that point it’s up to him or her to ascertain root cause and draft a report. This I’m assuming would have photos, data logs and any other relevant information. Now, until this occurs it’s purely speculation from any other party at this point.

While all that is true.

Even a casual observer with a modicum of knowledge can ascertain that there were definitely issues in the "tuning" of this vehicle.

While I'm speculating, with information to back it up, a speculation that the tune was "bulletproof" is asinine.

The fact that 5 Star hasn't even once chimed in to defend their process is telling, to me.

Also, according to the OP, it's already out of Ford's hands and into Stage 4 Stars.

 

[D Fresh]

also an assumption
we've never been given proof of that. We could take his word for it i guess.
and honestly....i'm not reading every post in this thread. my skin in the game is nil. doesnt really matter one way or another to me at this point.
perhaps i would like to learn more about this, but when the teaching staff isnt quite skilled at that game, it makes it pointless as well.

OP has been painful honest in this thread.

To the point of basically voiding his insurance contract.

I think questioning his morals in this instance is ill advised.

I'll take him @ his word, until he proves to be untrustworthy.

 

[HenryMac]

"You never know just how hard you can push a Ranger.... until it blows up."

Yogi Bear, 1972

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