Think I Threw a Rod....

[Project Midnight]

If you paid for an autopsy on the engine and further investigation then i'm quite surprised that you haven't received specific feedback on that. Typically when you pay for that investigation the tech an service manager will call you in when they are at the end of it and discuss it next to the vehicle and show you what they find.

However, based on pretty much the entirety of your posts on this thread (before you sanitized your previous posts heavily to remove the "feelings" and "dood, trust me, I do car things, I just know" BS), i'm willing to bet they are well and truly tired of dealing with you. Please note this is not a personal insult, it's a dispassionate observation. As a business owner I have plenty of clients who also come in with that sort of anecdotal "ammo" as the foundation for their arguments. It gets tiresome after the second go-around and when it hits the seventh, you're ready to send them to collections and 86 the engagement just to rid yourself of the administrative waste and future waste as you know this is enjoyable for the customer. Ford might play ball if it goes high enough and they think there's a risk, but it seems fairly open and shut at this point. Still, surprised they didn't share the investigation results with you regardless of the personalities.

Where the proof is in the pudding will be where Stage 3 goes with this. They have a very clear and obvious limitation on what they can do. If they were willing to dump in a new motor for you I would be absolutely shocked and surprised. But what happens if they say their hands are tied will probably devolve quickly into the second paragraph above. A quick guess would be a refund or offer on future services for a specified value to "make you whole" from their end.

Tuners aren't responsible for your vehicle after it leaves their facilities/possession. They can't be. I've stood by while a tuner blew up a motor as they dyno tuned it. Customer did all the work, it's their fault, not the tuner. It happens. Not 3 hours before that they almost blew my Evo motor after a wastegate failure sent boost into infinity and beyond (still hold the record for most PSI and whp on a stock turbo 4g63t without blowing the motor in their shop!). Shop owner turned to me and said "that was close, you almost bought a new engine!". My cold response of "no, you almost built me a new engine for free as you took possession of the vehicle, strapped it down, then did the wastegate install through your parts and labor and that labor was the fault while you continued to own possession of a clients car they didnt' touch, the failure and fault was yours".... (shit eating grin on my side, pale face of sudden understanding on his).

You see, there IS a difference between right and wrong, liability and responsibility. In this case, you're fishing for a refund from 3-star and Ford has no reason to help you further. But none of that will matter to you and none of that will sink in. This will ALWAYS be a Ford and 3-star issue to you and you'll walk from their products because you've "been wronged"..... Perception isn't always reality.

Like the ending of all 172 episodes of Three's Company, it's all just one big misunderstanding. Right?



Certainly, there's a lot that can go wrong there! Typically the service tech isn't one to make that call for warranty denial once the regional service rep is involved. It will be interesting to see where this ends up, but it's pretty clear Ford has their understanding of events.

I paid for the initial tear down of $1600 to tell me what specific mod caused the failure... No returned phone calls, my wife would leave a message (1 message) daily to return a call. They then quoted $2000 for additional tear down to specifically see what ”mod” caused the failure... If you already blanket swept the first tear down, to “all the mods” do you think I’m going to pay an additional $2000 to say the same damn thing... no, I’m not... I’m not complaining to pay to play, I just want to know what happened... and if a warranty covers it, that would be awesome... did the oil pump go out, and Ford wants to blame “all the mods” to not cover the cost?? Who knows... I know that 5 Star has more pull of getting information from Ford, than we do... I paid for warranties, and I’m just playing my cards... just saying...

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[2ford]

UPDATE: after running circles around with Ford Dealer Mac Haik and Ford Customer Service, no one giving me pictures of said damage, no return phone calls etc.. and the still, blanket sweep of “all the mods”, I’ve reached out to Stage 3 Motorsports for some help... I’m currently working with the President of Stage 3 Motorsports and he’s gathering information... It’s refreshing to work with someone that responds to your emails etc... Ford had quoted me $14,107 for a new stock engine with parts and labor included, to regain my Ford Warranty... as I said before, I’ll keep you updated as I find out more...

Wow 14k for a new stock engine, parts and labor. Ford sells 2.3 crate engine with parts for 5300.00 that means 8k for labor Yikes!!!!!

 

[Project Midnight]

HI Folks,

Okay...I have taken a backseat to this tread, even the off tangent stuff.

Before I take a nice Scotch night cap.

1. There are folks that want root cause analysis...including me.
2. There are folks with tunes that are fearful of the same outcome and being in the same boat, Costly on their nickle.
3. There are folks questioning the OP's demeanor with the dealer.
4. there are folks questioning the Dealers demeanor with OP.
5. there are folks questioning the timing of the results and wondering if this whole thing is true.
6. there are folks questioning why Torrie has not weighed in. Maybe waiting for Root Cause?
7. there are folks that want to know why a field service Engineer is not involved...me included.
8. there are folks that want to know Ford's position on aftermarket tunes...me included.
9. Did Op run the engine with out oil?

Right now we do not know if a rod was thrown. Was a bearing spun? Did a rod bolt break. Did the rod snap? Was there block damage? So on and so on.

Those of you with a tune have a pucker factor of which you have to deal and the need to justify it will not happen to you.

Where this goes will take some time and the OPs postings. Sad he is experiencing this, but to shoot him as the root cause remains to be seen. We really need an unbiased 3rd party...which does not exist....

The thing is there are now a ton of tuned Rangers running around without any problems.

I am leaning toward a base engine problem (Ford fault) and a very, very, very rare problem that the OP suffered.

Okay....Time for a Single Malt Scotch night cap!

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Thank you Phil, I’ve been wondering the same thing, and you mentioned “Field Service Engineer” involvement? Never heard of that before and now you really got me wondering... Since you worked for Ford, is that a norm on warranty claims? Field Service Engineer etc?? I just want my truck back... I’ve not received any detail from Ford besides, “all the mods” and I’m hoping Stage 3 Motorsports can get more data for me since Ford has just looked the other way... Thanks for the food for thought, I guess we’ll see how this goes... ?

 

[Project Midnight]

I understand that you requested new maps, and thought you received them. I do remember you saying that.

Who's to say you actually received new maps? Maybe they just sent you a "new" map that was exactly the same.

How were those new tunes developed? Were the same parts strapped on a shop truck to develop a map, or did their "tuners" simply throw a WAG at the effects of a downpipe, etc?

My response was not aimed at you. It was aimed at TXQuailGuy as he did not believe that your mod list was even capable of causing damage.



All I know is I if paid for the teardown and fault detection I'd be pissed if the answer was "all the mods".

I've got a feeling that we aren't getting the whole truth.

D Fresh, thats a good thought on the Maps, i did notice a different file extension on each new Map... never thought of that... the blanket sweep from Ford is what has me pissed... “all the mods” ?

 

[parkranger]

Is it just me? "All the mods" seems like some high priced lawyer euphemism designed to say it is all Project Midnight's fault without really saying directly or blaming any of the (individual) mods directly. Id est, if the dealer said "the tune is to blame" then 5 star would jump right in with their warranty. It is like the dealer is being overly cautious to not blame anybody specifically except @projectmidnight. Certainly, not a hallmark of a fair and unbiased forensic analysis at the least. Being ripped off by the dealer at the worst.
Seems like their best GUESS should have been FREE.
Either way I am so sorry for your predicament @Project Midnight

 

[Project Midnight]

Thank you Phil, I’ve been wondering the same thing, and you mentioned “Field Service Engineer” involvement? Never heard of that before and now you really got me wondering... Since you worked for Ford, is that a norm on warranty claims? Field Service Engineer etc?? I just want my truck back... I’ve not received any detail from Ford besides, “all the mods” and I’m hoping Stage 3 Motorsports can get more data for me since Ford has just looked the other way... Thanks for the food for thought, I guess we’ll see how this goes... ?

Phil, is that something I can request to have done? (Field Service Engineer) etc... will that cost me more or is that a standard through Ford with all Warranty claims??

 

[Project Midnight]

Is it just me? "All the mods" seems like some high priced lawyer euphemism designed to say it is all Project Midnight's fault without really saying directly or blaming any of the (individual) mods directly. Id est, if the dealer said "the tune is to blame" then 5 star would jump right in with their warranty. It is like the dealer is being overly cautious to not blame anybody specifically except @projectmidnight. Certainly, not a hallmark of a fair and unbiased forensic analysis at the least. Being ripped off by the dealer at the worst.
Seems like their best GUESS should have been FREE.
Either way I am so sorry for your predicament @Project Midnight

Exactly @parkranger This whole ordeal has me fuming, I just want my truck back... Ford asked if I had a check engine light before the red Oil Pressure light came on with all the clanking and stuff... No, no check engine light... I hope 5 Star can get into the details...

 

[Project Midnight]

If you paid for an autopsy on the engine and further investigation then i'm quite surprised that you haven't received specific feedback on that. Typically when you pay for that investigation the tech an service manager will call you in when they are at the end of it and discuss it next to the vehicle and show you what they find.

However, based on pretty much the entirety of your posts on this thread (before you sanitized your previous posts heavily to remove the "feelings" and "dood, trust me, I do car things, I just know" BS), i'm willing to bet they are well and truly tired of dealing with you. Please note this is not a personal insult, it's a dispassionate observation. As a business owner I have plenty of clients who also come in with that sort of anecdotal "ammo" as the foundation for their arguments. It gets tiresome after the second go-around and when it hits the seventh, you're ready to send them to collections and 86 the engagement just to rid yourself of the administrative waste and future waste as you know this is enjoyable for the customer. Ford might play ball if it goes high enough and they think there's a risk, but it seems fairly open and shut at this point. Still, surprised they didn't share the investigation results with you regardless of the personalities.

Where the proof is in the pudding will be where Stage 3 goes with this. They have a very clear and obvious limitation on what they can do. If they were willing to dump in a new motor for you I would be absolutely shocked and surprised. But what happens if they say their hands are tied will probably devolve quickly into the second paragraph above. A quick guess would be a refund or offer on future services for a specified value to "make you whole" from their end.

Tuners aren't responsible for your vehicle after it leaves their facilities/possession. They can't be. I've stood by while a tuner blew up a motor as they dyno tuned it. Customer did all the work, it's their fault, not the tuner. It happens. Not 3 hours before that they almost blew my Evo motor after a wastegate failure sent boost into infinity and beyond (still hold the record for most PSI and whp on a stock turbo 4g63t without blowing the motor in their shop!). Shop owner turned to me and said "that was close, you almost bought a new engine!". My cold response of "no, you almost built me a new engine for free as you took possession of the vehicle, strapped it down, then did the wastegate install through your parts and labor and that labor was the fault while you continued to own possession of a clients car they didnt' touch, the failure and fault was yours".... (shit eating grin on my side, pale face of sudden understanding on his).

You see, there IS a difference between right and wrong, liability and responsibility. In this case, you're fishing for a refund from 3-star and Ford has no reason to help you further. But none of that will matter to you and none of that will sink in. This will ALWAYS be a Ford and 3-star issue to you and you'll walk from their products because you've "been wronged"..... Perception isn't always reality.

Like the ending of all 172 episodes of Three's Company, it's all just one big misunderstanding. Right?



Certainly, there's a lot that can go wrong there! Typically the service tech isn't one to make that call for warranty denial once the regional service rep is involved. It will be interesting to see where this ends up, but it's pretty clear Ford has their understanding of events.

You don’t know me... I will continue with a 5 Star Tune that you keep saying 3 tune... I know that I said I’d never do another 5 Star tune, if it was the culprit etc, and they denied it... Currently, the President of Stage 3 Motorsports, Bill is helping me as much as he can... I built this truck to be a Ford Ranger Raptor that wasn’t brought here... and once all of this bullshit blows over... I’m going to flash my new 2022 Ranger Raptor with a 5 Star tune.... I appreciate Bills involvement and I trust their tunes... It helps to know, you have someone fighting in your corner... unlike you... Does my truck look like missed oil changes??

 

[Project Midnight]

Is it just me? "All the mods" seems like some high priced lawyer euphemism designed to say it is all Project Midnight's fault without really saying directly or blaming any of the (individual) mods directly. Id est, if the dealer said "the tune is to blame" then 5 star would jump right in with their warranty. It is like the dealer is being overly cautious to not blame anybody specifically except @projectmidnight. Certainly, not a hallmark of a fair and unbiased forensic analysis at the least. Being ripped off by the dealer at the worst.
Seems like their best GUESS should have been FREE.
Either way I am so sorry for your predicament @Project Midnight

EXACTLY...

 

[JAKE2.3]

Is it just me? "All the mods" seems like some high priced lawyer euphemism designed to say it is all Project Midnight's fault without really saying directly or blaming any of the (individual) mods directly. Id est, if the dealer said "the tune is to blame" then 5 star would jump right in with their warranty. It is like the dealer is being overly cautious to not blame anybody specifically except @projectmidnight. Certainly, not a hallmark of a fair and unbiased forensic analysis at the least. Being ripped off by the dealer at the worst.
Seems like their best GUESS should have been FREE.
Either way I am so sorry for your predicament @Project Midnight

That's kinda how I'm taking it, also. If they had clear evidence of a mod doing the damage, they should have some sort of detailed report by now, no? And as far as tuning goes, with these motors, the only thing that would really "require" a tune would be a downpipe. The rest of the exhaust or an intake doesn't necessarily need one to work properly. Downpipes and auxiliary fueling definitely do. If he had the tuning done for that, I too would question the "all the mods" theory.

 

[Blue Streak]

You don’t know me... I will continue with a 5 Star Tune that you keep saying 3 tune... I know that I said I’d never do another 5 Star tune, if it was the culprit etc, and they denied it... Currently, the President of Stage 3 Motorsports, Bill is helping me as much as he can... I built this truck to be a Ford Ranger Raptor that wasn’t brought here... and once all of this bullshit blows over... I’m going to flash my new 2022 Ranger Raptor with a 5 Star tune.... I appreciate Bills involvement and I trust their tunes... It helps to know, you have someone fighting in your corner... unlike you... Does my truck look like missed oil changes??

Look's awful clean. Think your trying to cover something up.

 

[aeroshots]

HI Folks,

Okay...I have taken a backseat to this tread, even the off tangent stuff.

Before I take a nice Scotch night cap.

1. There are folks that want root cause analysis...including me.
2. There are folks with tunes that are fearful of the same outcome and being in the same boat, Costly on their nickle.
3. There are folks questioning the OP's demeanor with the dealer.
4. there are folks questioning the Dealers demeanor with OP.
5. there are folks questioning the timing of the results and wondering if this whole thing is true.
6. there are folks questioning why Torrie has not weighed in. Maybe waiting for Root Cause?
7. there are folks that want to know why a field service Engineer is not involved...me included.
8. there are folks that want to know Ford's position on aftermarket tunes...me included.
9. Did Op run the engine with out oil?

Right now we do not know if a rod was thrown. Was a bearing spun? Did a rod bolt break. Did the rod snap? Was there block damage? So on and so on.

Those of you with a tune have a pucker factor of which you have to deal and the need to justify it will not happen to you.

Where this goes will take some time and the OPs postings. Sad he is experiencing this, but to shoot him as the root cause remains to be seen. We really need an unbiased 3rd party...which does not exist....

The thing is there are now a ton of tuned Rangers running around without any problems.

I am leaning toward a base engine problem (Ford fault) and a very, very, very rare problem that the OP suffered.

Okay....Time for a Single Malt Scotch night cap!

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

10. There are folks wanting to see photos if puppy dogs. (Tongue in cheek) while waiting a good outcome for OP. ?

 

[P. A. Schilke]

Thank you Phil, I’ve been wondering the same thing, and you mentioned “Field Service Engineer” involvement? Never heard of that before and now you really got me wondering... Since you worked for Ford, is that a norm on warranty claims? Field Service Engineer etc?? I just want my truck back... I’ve not received any detail from Ford besides, “all the mods” and I’m hoping Stage 3 Motorsports can get more data for me since Ford has just looked the other way... Thanks for the food for thought, I guess we’ll see how this goes... ?

Hi Shane,

FSEs are sent out when there is a tough nut to crack that a dealer cannot handle. I would recommend you get your dealer to set up a FSE visit to view your teardown and subsequent diagnosis. FSEs are busy so it may take some time to make it happen....Give it a go with the dealer and see what happens...

Good Luck!
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[Rp930]

It’s your truck, have you personally inspected the carnage? Sorry if you already said you did. I’m not going to read 40 pages again to find out.

I was a Field Technical Manager for another brand at one time. We were there to assist the dealer if they just couldn’t fix it, we were not there to make warranty decisions. We reported our findings/recommendations and the Warranty Dept made the decision. They could probably send Field Technical one or two pictures that would tell the story. There would be no reason for a physical visit especially with COVID. Depending on the actual damage it would be very difficult to get a good outcome from warranty with a modified vehicle. You are going to have to face facts at some point. The Owners/Warranty manual is very clear on this.

 

[txquailguy]

You don't understand how things like a full TBE exhaust, or intake can effect a/f ratios, cause detonation, preignition, and ultimately grenade an engine?

If you don't you probably shouldn't be modding your truck.

Of course, "all the mods" is a BS response. He deserves a better answer than "unnatural causes" when he paid for the autopsy. But the mods he has listed, tune included, could definately destroy an engine, especially if not accounted for in the tune.

Honestly, I didn't realize he changed the intake. That would be a BIG change to the engine itself. I'm not sure the full exhaust would cause a total meltdown. Believe me, I totally understand what you are saying. I purposely stayed away from anything other than a cat-back with no downpipe to be as careful as possible (I have a 5/125K warranty). I was after the extra performance gains my tune offers because she breathes twice as good....but not too good
He deleted his showcase so when I went back in to look at what he had done to the truck it was gone.
I would never change a major engine component, like an intake, while under warranty. All I have done to mine is an EM-BOV and I installed the aFe power scoop on my stock air box and a K&N filter. That's it for engine mods....and I would challenge Ford in a minute if they tried to tell me that hurt my Ranger! Even with my tune I don't feel like I'm pushing my motor to any limits at all....
Of course Ford doesn't give a rats arse how I feel about anything so there you go.....
As always...IMHO.

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