Telematics, BMS and their connection.

[pboggini]

Wow thanks for all that! Happily, I only had to go to step 5 noting that, in the menu, there was an LTE signal and it was seeing my WiFi.

I'll also now confirm that charging voltage has 100% returned to normal values. More driving around on 50-60 degree days and it was down to 14.1 or so at start, and down to 13.6-13.8 during normal driving.

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[TJC]

curious about what the ambient temp was when the charge voltage climbed to 14.6V. It tends to climb higher the colder it gets. Has it warmed up some?

 

[pboggini]

curious about what the ambient temp was when the charge voltage climbed to 14.6V. It tends to climb higher the colder it gets. Has it warmed up some?

Similar temps. 40s in the morning warmer in afternoon. On Wednesday and Thursday, it was 14.6 to 14.7 all the way to work. Friday, started at 14.6, dropped to 14.3 half way. Wednesday and Thursday, 14.4 to 14.5 on the way home, now, under 14. So noticable drop for sure.

Peterb

 

[got3fords]

Similar temps. 40s in the morning warmer in afternoon. On Wednesday and Thursday, it was 14.6 to 14.7 all the way to work. Friday, started at 14.6, dropped to 14.3 half way. Wednesday and Thursday, 14.4 to 14.5 on the way home, now, under 14. So noticable drop for sure.

Peterb

Let us know if you have consistent voltages. I start worrying about my charge voltage, then they change, then they change again. Like I said previously, often charging near 15V, then 13-14V. Hard to see a pattern except maybe temperature.

 

[Frenchy]

Let us know if you have consistent voltages. I start worrying about my charge voltage, then they change, then they change again. Like I said previously, often charging near 15V, then 13-14V. Hard to see a pattern except maybe temperature.

I can say that lately with my Frontier it seems to like to run around 14.7 when it is well below Freezing. I'm going to guess that it is normal for that to happen. It seems as if the lower voltage isn't allowed as much in the cooler temperatures for whatever reason and this may apply for many manufacturers using the Variable Voltage System.

 

[pboggini]

Let us know if you have consistent voltages. I start worrying about my charge voltage, then they change, then they change again. Like I said previously, often charging near 15V, then 13-14V. Hard to see a pattern except maybe temperature.

It's been super consistent since I put the lariat battery in and set my soc to 100. The only time it's not been is this last week when I notice higher voltages. But I now know that the icon is also different. So if I see the battery icon from my phone instead of the location icon I know the modem is not connecting. Or the truck and the modem aren't talking.

Today it started at 14.1 and quickly dropped to 13.8. Now that it's 60* it was 13.7 on the way home. Back to normal.

I noticed the regenerative charging when my soc was 95 but I haven't seen it with the soc set at 100. I think 100 is a winner.

Peterb

 

[TJC]

Similar temps. 40s in the morning warmer in afternoon. On Wednesday and Thursday, it was 14.6 to 14.7 all the way to work. Friday, started at 14.6, dropped to 14.3 half way. Wednesday and Thursday, 14.4 to 14.5 on the way home, now, under 14. So noticable drop for sure.

Peterb

From what I have observed when using a high (100%) SOC level, or removing the BMS sensor. the range window is set when you start the truck. It does not fall below the lower threshold during that driving session. If you stop turn off the truck and restart it, the charge voltage window will adjust lower. My 2005 Ranger behaves this way, and it is factory.

It is a 0.3v - 0.4v window, top to bottom. I've tested this many times on both my 2020 and 2005 Rangers and the behavior is consistent. If I start off at 14.4v, it will drop over to 14.1v. If I stop for a few minutes to go shopping and restart the truck, it will start at 14.1v and drop to 13.8v on the drive home. I've seen it go as low as 13.5v - 13.6v. This is being measured from inside the cab and it is 0.2v lower then what is measure at the battery.

With BMS stock and a battery fresh off a 100% charge, it will charge in the 12.5v range until it settles at the SOC of 75%, then you will see wide ranges of charge rates. I've seen charge spikes as high as 15.6v (it may have been even higher, but it's been a long time since I tested with the BMS active as designed, but I do remember the 15.6V measurement) in the cab, and as low as 12.0v.

If the battery is already at 75% charge the high voltage spike charges will be there when coasting or braking, with low charge rates at acceleration and cruise.

I have never tested with ASS on and active.

 

[Frenchy]

From what I have observed when using a high (100%) SOC level, or removing the BMS sensor. the range window is set when you start the truck. It does not fall below the lower threshold during that driving session. If you stop turn off the truck and restart it, the charge voltage window will adjust lower. My 2005 Ranger behaves this way, and it is factory.

It is a 0.3v - 0.4v window, top to bottom. I've tested this many times on both my 2020 and 2005 Rangers and the behavior is consistent. If I start off at 14.4v, it will drop over to 14.1v. If I stop for a few minutes to go shopping and restart the truck, it will start at 14.1v and drop to 13.8v on the drive home. I've seen it go as low as 13.5v - 13.6v. This is being measured from inside the cab and it is 0.2v lower then what is measure at the battery.

With BMS stock and a battery fresh off a 100% charge, it will charge in the 12.5v range until it settles at the SOC of 75%, then you will see wide ranges of charge rates. I've seen charge spikes as high as 15.6v (it may have been even higher, but it's been a long time since I tested with the BMS active as designed, but I do remember the 15.6V measurement) in the cab, and as low as 12.0v.

If the battery is already at 75% charge the high voltage spike charges will be there when coasting or braking, with low charge rates at acceleration and cruise.

I have never tested with ASS on and active.

If it's only for short burts, I would not be concerned about the 15.6 volts.

Also your 2005 Ranger does not compare as it doesn't have the same tech as the current Ranger or other modern vehicles.

 

[pboggini]

From what I have observed when using a high (100%) SOC level, or removing the BMS sensor. the range window is set when you start the truck. It does not fall below the lower threshold during that driving session. If you stop turn off the truck and restart it, the charge voltage window will adjust lower. My 2005 Ranger behaves this way, and it is factory.

It is a 0.3v - 0.4v window, top to bottom. I've tested this many times on both my 2020 and 2005 Rangers and the behavior is consistent. If I start off at 14.4v, it will drop over to 14.1v. If I stop for a few minutes to go shopping and restart the truck, it will start at 14.1v and drop to 13.8v on the drive home. I've seen it go as low as 13.5v - 13.6v. This is being measured from inside the cab and it is 0.2v lower then what is measure at the battery.

With BMS stock and a battery fresh off a 100% charge, it will charge in the 12.5v range until it settles at the SOC of 75%, then you will see wide ranges of charge rates. I've seen charge spikes as high as 15.6v (it may have been even higher, but it's been a long time since I tested with the BMS active as designed, but I do remember the 15.6V measurement) in the cab, and as low as 12.0v.

If the battery is already at 75% charge the high voltage spike charges will be there when coasting or braking, with low charge rates at acceleration and cruise.

I have never tested with ASS on and active.

I'll pay more attention to the range. I don't know if I've seen more that .3 or .4 drop but it will be something to monitor.

Peterb

 

[TJC]

If it's only for short burts, I would not be concerned about the 15.6 volts.

Also your 2005 Ranger does not compare as it doesn't have the same tech as the current Ranger or other modern vehicles.

The 2005 Ranger was used as a test mule and my objective was to modify my 2020 Ranger to charge the same way the 2005 Ranger does. And I have been successful. The ONLY difference is the 2020 charges 0.2v higher than the 2005. I believe the 0.2v difference is due to the fact that my 2005 came with a standard flooded lead acid battery vs the AGM in the 2020, which likes a slightly higher charge voltage.

The charging algos are now identical. Just what I wanted. I have tested this extensively for well over a year, driving both trucks on the same 40 mile route at the same times and recording the charge voltages on both. Weather conditions identical. Driving speed and lighting identical.

I can state with confidence that if you unplugged the BMS sensor at the neg battery, or set SOC to 100, and turn off ASS/BMS in Forscan. The 2020 will revert to the older charging algo (almost identical to my 2005 Ranger) as a fallback.

And I have a years worth of data to back it up. Much of which I posted in a thread labeled
Maximizing Battery Life

The thread is 42 pages long. Believe whatever you like. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind or influence anyone. I simply documented my findings.

My 2020 Ranger has not had a low battery warning since I made the changes and I fully expect the battery to last 8-10 years. My 2005 ranger's battery have lasted longer. I am on my 3rd one now only because my alternator died on a road trip and I had to drive 125 miles to my destination... resulting in a drained the battery so low that all the dash lights failed, and touching the brakes would cause the engine to stumble badly and almost stall it. This occurred on Christmas Eve and I arrived a the only open parts store at 7PM. I dared not turn off the truck as I would not have gotten it started.

After I installed the alternator, I fully charged the battery, but it never recovered to 100%. I replaced it early. As a rule my auto batteries never slowly die. One day I walk out and the battery is DEAD, no dome light, nothing... ..typically from the lead plates shedding and shorting the cells.

Facts
Optimal float charge for extended battery life is 13.6v. Excessive charge levels stress the lead plates. High voltage charging spikes stress the lead plates. The higher the charge above 13.6v , the more stress and damage to the plates.

Optimal Battery SOC is 12.65V - The lower the voltage, the more damage from sulfation to the plates.

70%-75% SOC is ~0.3V below optimal. I used the "~" to cover both the SOC of 70% and SOC of 75%.

This is not conjecture, this is fact. And these facts are easily found and validated.

And Ford is stressing your battery on both ends of the charging scale.

Probably to meet EPA standards (conjecture on my part).

 

[Frenchy]

The 2005 Ranger was used as a test mule and my objective was to modify my 2020 Ranger to charge the same way the 2005 Ranger does. And I have been successful. The ONLY difference is the 2020 charges 0.2v higher than the 2005. I believe the 0.2v difference is due to the fact that my 2005 came with a standard flooded lead acid battery vs the AGM in the 2020, which likes a slightly higher charge voltage.

The charging algos are now identical. Just what I wanted. I have tested this extensively for well over a year, driving both trucks on the same 40 mile route at the same times and recording the charge voltages on both. Weather conditions identical. Driving speed and lighting identical.

I can state with confidence that if you unplugged the BMS sensor at the neg battery, or set SOC to 100, and turn off ASS/BMS in Forscan. The 2020 will revert to the older charging algo (almost identical to my 2005 Ranger) as a fallback.

And I have a years worth of data to back it up. Much of which I posted in a thread labeled
Maximizing Battery Life

The thread is 42 pages long. Believe whatever you like. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind or influence anyone. I simply documented my findings.

My 2020 Ranger has not had a low battery warning since I made the changes and I fully expect the battery to last 8-10 years. My 2005 ranger's battery have lasted longer. I am on my 3rd one now only because my alternator died and I gad to drive 125 miles to my destination and I drained the battery so low that all the dash lights failed, and touching the brakes would cause the engine to stumble badly and almost stall it. This occurred on Christmas Eve and I arrived a the only open parts store at 7PM. I dared not turn off the truck as I would not have gotten it started.

After I installed the alternator, I fully charged the battery, but it never recovered to 100%. I replaced it early. As a rule my auto batteries never slowly die. One day I walk out and the battery is DEAD, no dome light, nothing... ..typically from the lead plates shedding and shorting the cells.

Facts
Optimal float charge for extended battery life is 13.6v. Excessive charge levels stress the lead plates. High voltage charging spikes stress the lead plates. The higher the charge above 13.6v , the more stress and damage to the plates.

Optimal Battery SOC is 12.65V - The lower the voltage, the more damage from sulfation to the plates.

70%-75% SOC is ~0.3V below optimal. I used the "~" to cover both the SOC of 70% and SOC of 75%.

This is not conjecture, this is fact. And these facts are easily found and validated.

And Ford is stressing your battery on both ends of the charging scale.

Probably to meet EPA standards (conjecture on my part).

Do what you wish. Be aware there is no need to disable so many things at once to get that particular result. Simply making the change for the SOC using ForScan should be well more than enough to do the job you are looking for.

The good old Auto Start Stop System should have no play at all in this. All it does is stop and start the engine as needed when in big cities and what not and is very beneficial to one that is constantly in heavy City Traffic(not to say it isn't annoying).

Disabling the BMS is completely pointless. Having the BMS active can still be helpful for the vehicle Electronics especially if the vehicle doesn't get driven often. It helps the truck go I to sleep mode so the battery isn't getting drained completely. All it's really doing is just monitoring the Battery. Nothing more, nothing less.

When you talk about the Float Charge, you need to keep in mind what type of battery you are talking about and I don't mean Flooded or AGM. I mean Starting and Deep Cycle as both have two completely different charging requirements. One is also meant to be drained most of the way and then charged back up unlike the other that is preferred to keep charged. Keep that in mind

 

[TJC]

Do what you wish. Be aware there is no need to disable so many things at once to get that particular result. Simply making the change for the SOC using ForScan should be well more than enough to do the job you are looking for.

The good old Auto Start Stop System should have no play at all in this. All it does is stop and start the engine as needed when in big cities and what not and is very beneficial to one that is constantly in heavy City Traffic(not to say it isn't annoying).

Disabling the BMS is completely pointless. Having the BMS active can still be helpful for the vehicle Electronics especially if the vehicle doesn't get driven often. It helps the truck go I to sleep mode so the battery isn't getting drained completely. All it's really doing is just monitoring the Battery. Nothing more, nothing less.

When you talk about the Float Charge, you need to keep in mind what type of battery you are talking about and I don't mean Flooded or AGM. I mean Starting and Deep Cycle as both have two completely different charging requirements. One is also meant to be drained most of the way and then charged back up unlike the other that is preferred to keep charged. Keep that in mind

- The Forscan Setting is listed as "ASS/BMS". I do not wish to have ASS active.

- BMS is still active, you can not disable BMS, but you can change the charging parameters. That is all I have done.

- I experimented extensively trying multiple techniques and combinations.

- Most autos are not equipped with deep discharge batteries. I understand the differences, and the points that I made are directed at auto batteries, both flooded and AGM.

I wanted a battery friendly charging system. I have had excellent results with the system in my 2005 Ford Ranger and used it as my target. I achieved that goal.

 

[got3fords]

Maximizing Battery Life

The thread is 42 pages long. Believe whatever you like. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind or influence anyone. I simply documented my findings.

My 2020 Ranger has not had a low battery warning since I made the changes and I fully expect the battery to last 8-10 years. My 2005 ranger's battery have lasted longer. I am on my 3rd one now only because my alternator died on a road trip and I had to drive 125 miles to my destination... resulting in a drained the battery so low that all the dash lights failed, and touching the brakes would cause the engine to stumble badly and almost stall it. This occurred on Christmas Eve and I arrived a the only open parts store at 7PM. I dared not turn off the truck as I would not have gotten it started.

After I installed the alternator, I fully charged the battery, but it never recovered to 100%. I replaced it early. As a rule my auto batteries never slowly die. One day I walk out and the battery is DEAD, no dome light, nothing... ..typically from the lead plates shedding and shorting the cells.

Facts
Optimal float charge for extended battery life is 13.6v. Excessive charge levels stress the lead plates. High voltage charging spikes stress the lead plates. The higher the charge above 13.6v , the more stress and damage to the plates.

Optimal Battery SOC is 12.65V - The lower the voltage, the more damage from sulfation to the plates.

70%-75% SOC is ~0.3V below optimal. I used the "~" to cover both the SOC of 70% and SOC of 75%.

This is not conjecture, this is fact. And these facts are easily found and validated.

And Ford is stressing your battery on both ends of the charging scale.

Probably to meet EPA standards (conjecture on my part).

You mention plates a lot, but AGM in the Rangers don't have plates, do they? So not sure if it's comparable.

 

[Frenchy]

You mention plates a lot, but AGM in the Rangers don't have plates, do they? So not sure if it's comparable.

Both Flooded and AGM Batteries are in the Lead Acid Group and use Plates inside. Depending on how well they are built will depend on how many plates they have and how much power they may or may not have.

 

[MrJ1s]

Hmmm ? I've been wondering about that top reading since I started monitoring it via the Torque App.

Thanks for your post

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