Sheared Lug Bolts

[sbacpo]

GMatt - I hope you made it home OK. If you don't mind, and you have the time, please let us know what the outcome of this is. I'm very curious what the dealer and Ford do to address this.

Thanks.

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[Kataphrakt]

Did the dealer put on wheel locks?

My Mom just bought an Edge ST, had to go through all the hassle of getting the dealer to not put wheel locks on (asked the dealer to not put em on, and they put them on anyways, when asked to take them off the dealer said they'd have to bill an hour of labor, on a car that she didnt own yet! They finally got them to take them off and everything was good. Then she gets home and my dad decides to check the torque on all the lugs, he finds that the dealer not only didnt torque the lugs down right, they also didnt even use the right lugs!

 

[VAMike]

My Mom just bought an Edge ST, had to go through all the hassle of getting the dealer to not put wheel locks on (asked the dealer to not put em on, and they put them on anyways, when asked to take them off the dealer said they'd have to bill an hour of labor, on a car that she didnt own yet! They finally got them to take them off and everything was good. Then she gets home and my dad decides to check the torque on all the lugs, he finds that the dealer not only didnt torque the lugs down right, they also didnt even use the right lugs!

Stealership has to pad its profit somehow

 

[Kataphrakt]

Stealership has to pad its profit somehow

yeah, i'm glad the sales guy i went through to get my truck didnt push this stuff too hard. I know a guy at the dealer and asked him which sales rep i should go through. When ready for the PDI and everything he asked "hey, fill out this sheet and sign it for anything else you want" I returned it declining any extra steps, and said i didnt want anything else. Later when i went to sign all the documents he just handed me a sheet and said "Check the 'no' boxes on all of these and sign this to prove i did try to sell you these extra options" it had all the stuff like wheel locks, etc...

 

[t4thfavor]

I noticed my wheels were very lightly torqued too. I had to bash the wheel locks off at my last oil change (11/16" 12pt socket pounds right over the cap...) because the dealer neglected to put the key back in the truck after they turned my rear brake rotors (TSB). I re-torqued them, and all has been well.

Though I think they only took the rear tires off, the fronts seemed much looser than normal, maybe it's because Ford actually uses a torque wrench on the line, and every tire place ever just uses the larges air hammer they can find.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

I noticed my wheels were very lightly torqued too. I had to bash the wheel locks off at my last oil change (11/16" 12pt socket pounds right over the cap...) because the dealer neglected to put the key back in the truck after they turned my rear brake rotors (TSB). I re-torqued them, and all has been well.

Though I think they only took the rear tires off, the fronts seemed much looser than normal, maybe it's because Ford actually uses a torque wrench on the line, and every tire place ever just uses the larges air hammer they can find.

Hi Folks,

The plant used a very sophisticated multispindle nutrunner to tighten the wheels. It is about the size of a 30 gallon garbage can and hangs on a Zimmerman Balance winch. It measures all wheel lugnuts for dynamic torque, not static torque...too complex to describe here so google dynamic torque if you wish to delve further into this. If the nut runner fails to torque all the lugnuts correctly, it shuts down the assembly line immediately. I am certain Gregg's Ranger left the plant with wheels properly torqued. Something has happened after the vehicle left the plant or there is a serious defect that will be bubbling up post haste.

best,
Phil Schlke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[t4thfavor]

Hi Folks,

The plant used a very sophisticated multispindle nutrunner to tighten the wheels. It is about the size of a 30 gallon garbage can and hangs on a Zimmerman Balance winch. It measures all wheel lugnuts for dynamic torque, not static torque...too complex to describe here so google dynamic torque if you wish to delve further into this. If the nut runner fails to torque all the lugnuts correctly, it shuts down the assembly line immediately. I am certain Gregg's Ranger left the plant with wheels properly torqued. Something has happened after the vehicle left the plant or there is a serious defect that will be bubbling up post haste.

best,
Phil Schlke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

My guess is the dealer got two rangers, one with black wheels and one with silver (or whatever), customer 1 came in and said "I want that truck with those wheels" and the new guy had to go swap wheels real fast while the customer did the paperwork.

That kind of stuff happens constantly, and it wouldn't surprise me if the person changing the wheels didn't torque them while on the ground, or didn't torque them at all.

 

[Fordguy]

Hi Folks,

The plant used a very sophisticated multispindle nutrunner to tighten the wheels. It is about the size of a 30 gallon garbage can and hangs on a Zimmerman Balance winch. It measures all wheel lugnuts for dynamic torque, not static torque...too complex to describe here so google dynamic torque if you wish to delve further into this. If the nut runner fails to torque all the lugnuts correctly, it shuts down the assembly line immediately. I am certain Gregg's Ranger left the plant with wheels properly torqued. Something has happened after the vehicle left the plant or there is a serious defect that will be bubbling up post haste.

best,
Phil Schlke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

I am going to call Bullshit on this. We check all lug-nuts on all PDI's and we do on occasion find lug nuts not tight. If Ford is so confident, why don't you just remove the checking of the lug nut on your PDI form? We find all kinds of problems on new vehicles... BS

 

[P. A. Schilke]

My guess is the dealer got two rangers, one with black wheels and one with silver (or whatever), customer 1 came in and said "I want that truck with those wheels" and the new guy had to go swap wheels real fast while the customer did the paperwork.

That kind of stuff happens constantly, and it wouldn't surprise me if the person changing the wheels didn't torque them while on the ground, or didn't torque them at all.

Hi Chance,

Certainly a plausible scenario!

best.
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[Roofhopper]

I am going to call Bullshit on this. We check all lug-nuts on all PDI's and we do on occasion find lug nuts not tight. If Ford is so confident, why don't you just remove the checking of the lug nut on your PDI form? We find all kinds of problems on new vehicles... BS

There is often times thousands of miles that vehicles travel between leaving the plant to arriving at dealer. Driving into freight cars, onto car haulers etc, many things can happen in between...

 

[P. A. Schilke]

There is often times thousands of miles that vehicles travel between leaving the plant to arriving at dealer. Driving into freight cars, onto car haulers etc, many things can happen in between...

News to me it is still on the PDI....we facilitated the Ranger Plants to preclude the the need for the dealer to check the torque as there is little likelyhood of them doing it. I am sure the system is not 100% perfect as I do recall one instance at Edison where they right side nut runner failed, the line when down while the repairman get the thing back up and running. They sent a couple workers with torque wrenches down the line to check wheel torque. Not sure how far down the line they went and with the speed they worked, it is quite possible the worker missed a lugnut. First thing I did when I got my new Ranger home was check lugnut torque...they were all above 100 Ft lb, but I broke each one loose and retorqued as I had no idea if there was an unregulated air impact wrench used on them....although none of the lug nuts showed signs of that happening... Second thing was tire pressure, a topic of which has been discussed in this forum.

The takeaway is that there is a need for Dealer PDI but some things are better controlled at the plant if possible. If only we could get a handle on tire pressures...

So I stand corrected on it is still on the PDI form...

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[Kataphrakt]

I am going to call Bullshit on this. We check all lug-nuts on all PDI's and we do on occasion find lug nuts not tight. If Ford is so confident, why don't you just remove the checking of the lug nut on your PDI form? We find all kinds of problems on new vehicles... BS

Tire pressure and washerfluid are both on PDI, yet both are wrong on many people's rangers across the country...

Also, Torque with a torque wrench and a dynamic torque that you can get from a proper powered tool are going to vary significantly. Static friction is always higher than dynamic friction so once you get a threaded fastener moving, it takes less torque to rotate it than it did to get it moving. If the fastener rotates all the way from the initial tightening to when it is properly torqued, you can get very consistent torque values. If you use a hand torque-wrench, you're often going to end up torquing to a mix of values.

 

[Msfitoy]

Tire pressure and washerfluid are both on PDI, yet both are wrong on many people's rangers across the country...

Also, Torque with a torque wrench and a dynamic torque that you can get from a proper powered tool are going to vary significantly. Static friction is always higher than dynamic friction so once you get a threaded fastener moving, it takes less torque to rotate it than it did to get it moving. If the fastener rotates all the way from the initial tightening to when it is properly torqued, you can get very consistent torque values. If you use a hand torque-wrench, you're often going to end up torquing to a mix of values.

Yup...48psi and zero washer fluid here...

 

[GMatt]

Update, checked the lug nuts on the wheel while waiting for the tow truck and discovered they ALL were loose. So I tightened them up before he took it away. Arrived at the dealership and they are puzzled as we also discovered that the center stud is totally missing from the truck while the outer two were just sheared off under the lug nut. Just waiting for my loaner car and will update again once the service department eyeballs it

 

[Msfitoy]

I smell a cover up in high gear...

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