Premium fuel?

[Frenchy]

LOL ok explain the problem its going to cause? Like I said in my first post this will piss off the owner manual nazis! I dont care where the fuel is injected the science is the same. Port injection, dirrect injection. I mean you have guys talking about needing a carburetor for christ sakes! The science is the same! All you have to do is a quick google search on the subject. To enlighten yourself on the benefits of alchol injection.Those same engineers that you speak of will write in the owners manual. That any modifications will void your warranty. I don't care if its a simple as a cold air intake. But ford will be happy to sell you a conservative tune for a 1000 dollars. And then force you to have it installed by them. For another few hundred bucks more. The sheep will continue to follow the owners manual to a tee. And then there are those that will educate themselves. Your the second guys to say it'll "cause problems". You just can't name what those peoblems will be? Google is your friend.

Two reasons why you sould not put E85 in your truck what so ever if you have not done anything to it. Reason 1: it does not have the tuneing for it yet. Reason 2: the fuel pump can not supply enough for the extra benefits of ethanol fuel.
Now yes you can see improved power with E85 or a mixture to E50 but until it is tuned for such it is in your best interest to not do it. If you continue and dont get the necessary work done then you will see problems with your truck that will cost you more than what you will want to pay.

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[Bluebeastsrt]

you are just rambling.. the truck has no way to adjust fueling and timing for any E85 addition Making any perceived value null.

What do you mean it has no way of adjusting timing??? The pcm constantly adjusts timing. Based on what the on board sensors tell it to do. You do understand that's how it tells the difference between 93 and 87 octane fuel right? If the truck doesn't pull timing when it senses knock. We are all just one bad tank of gas away from a total rebuild.

 

[Bluebeastsrt]

Two reasons why you sould not put E85 in your truck what so ever if you have not done anything to it. Reason 1: it does not have the tuneing for it yet. Reason 2: the fuel pump can not supply enough for the extra benefits of ethanol fuel.
Now yes you can see improved power with E85 or a mixture to E50 but until it is tuned for such it is in your best interest to not do it. If you continue and dont get the necessary work done then you will see problems with your truck that will cost you more than what you will want to pay.

1. What part of you don't need to be tuned for it dont you understand? Do you have to tune for water/meth injection? Go look it up I'll wait. And 2. Have you data logged your truck to see what duty cycle your injectors are running at is? Of course you haven't! Your assuming the pump isn't big enough to handle an extra gallon of e85 in your gasoline. When ford sells you a tune. Does that tune come with a bigger fuel pump? NO! Why not? Well the answer to that is simple. The stock pump can handle addition fuel requirements well above stock parameters. How does ford manage to get an addition 50 horsepower out of a tune if they are not adding additional fuel? Thats a rhetorical question. You act like another 5% of ethnol is just going to grenade the engine. I've watch you post endless nonsense on this forum. You're probably the worst for misinformation. By yourself a laptop and get some data logs before you go yelling what the fuel system can and cannot handle. You are talking about tuning. Tuning would only be required if your running straight e85. Now back to those problems. Name a single problem running an extra gallon of e85 in your gasoline will cause? I've named two benefits. You name a single problem that is going to acure. Carbon build up? Nope alcohol burns cleaner than gasoline. Detonation? Nope alcohol cools the cylinder tempature. Reduced fuel milage? Maybe? But does that matter seeing that e85 is cheaper than 93 octane gasoline. Don't just shake your fist in the air. Here's a few photos of cars I've owned. They have all had power adders and none of them run on pump gas. You guys are out of your depth here when it comes to fuels and performance!

 

[Floyd]

What are you talking about??? The fuel doesn’t mix with the air in the intake???? How does flex fuel vehicles work? Magic? Of course the fuel will mix with the air in the intake. It’s called atomization. That’s what the fuel injectors do. They atomize fuel so that you get a proper fuel/air mixture. The o2 sensors along with other various sensors tell the pcm how much fuel is needed and the injectors adjust their duty cycle. The pcm will also controls the throttle body intake blade pitch to satisfy engine air/fuel demand. Gasoline/ethanol fuel blends (e15 to e85)have significant synergies with Spark Ignited Direct Injected engines. The higher latent heat of vaporization of ethanol increases charge cooling due to fuel evaporation and thus improves knock onset limits and efficiency. This is your first turbo vehicle huh? Your soooo wrong it’s amazing! CARBURETOR?????? Please for the love of god do a little research on boosted/forced induction applications and e85. Adding a gallon or two of E85 Is basically the same principle as methanol injection. Your just using ethanol instead of methanol. But they are both alcohol. Turbo vehicles have been using methanol injection for over 50 years. As a matter of fact. Methanol injection was used in fighter planes back in World war 2. You don’t need to be tuned for meth/ethanol to reap the benefits of the chemical cooling and increased octane. However if you are specifically tuned for e85. (Upgraded fuel components) You can max out the engines performance potential. By maximizing timing and fuel tables. And of course, retarding knock.

What I am talking about is a 2019-2020 Ford Ranger 2.3L Ecoboost with Direct Injection and the "cooling effect" of ethanol on intake air....

Direct injection injects fuel "directly" into the cylinder.(not the intake manifold)
Multipoint fuel injection injects fuel at the intake valve.(a little late)
Throttlebody injection injects fuel into the intake stream much like a carburetor.
And of course a carburetor introduces fuel into the intake stream at the venturi.
At least the last two mix fuel to air as it enters the intake.


My first turbo was a first gen RX7 project in which I converted it to an aftermarket Turbo.
This was followed by installing a SVO Lima Turbo into my 1980 Pinto.
The Ranger 2.3L Ecoboost is actually my 3rd Turbo... eventhough I never technically owned the Mazda.
Methanol injection is usually independent of any OEM system and is an aftermarket application, not merely a fuel additive mixed in the tank
You seem to be a pretty smart guy, but you just need to do a little more research, and please stop running Ethanol above an E10 mix in your new Ranger until you do.
Please report back here and share what you learn, I still have some room to learn from your experience.

 

[Bluebeastsrt]

What I am talking about is a 2019-2020 Ford Ranger 2.3L Ecoboost with Direct Injection....
Direct injection injects fuel "directly into the cylinder.
Multipoint fuel injection injects fuel at the intake valve.
Throttlebody injection injects fuel into the intake stream much like a carburetor.
And of course a carburetor introduces fuel into the intake stream at the venturi.


My first turbo was a first gen RX7 project in which I converted it to an aftermarket Turbo.
This was followed by installing a SVO Lima Turbo into my 1980 Pinto.
The Ranger 2.3L Ecoboost is actually my 3rd Turbo... eventhough I never technically owned the Mazda.
Methanol injection is usually independent of any OEM system and is an aftermarket application, not merely a fuel additive mixed in the tank
You seem to be a pretty smart guy, but you just need to do a little more research, and please stop running Ethanol above an E10 mix in your new Ranger until you do.
Please report back here and share what you learn, I still have some room to learn from your experience.

I completely understand direct injection. Now does ethanol some how work differently in the cylinder of a direct injection engine? Than it would in a port injection or a carburated application? Its still going to chemically cool the cylinder tempature correct? And blending it will obviously rsise octane. Would you not agree? I bring up water meth injection to simply make a point about the need for specific tuning. How the fuel gets to the cylinder is irrelevant. Yes methanol injection has its own pump. But once it reaches the cylinders. It is still just being burnt with the gasoline. What does the fuel delivery system. Have to do with the science of how alcohol is conbusted in an internal combustion engine? Obviously the stock fuel system has plenty of room if Ford can get and addition 50hp out of a tune. Without the need of changing injectors or the fuel pump.

 

[Frenchy]

1. What part of you don't need to be tuned for it dont you understand? Do you have to tune for water/meth injection? Go look it up I'll wait. And 2. Have you data logged your truck to see what duty cycle your injectors are running at is? Of course you haven't! Your assuming the pump isn't big enough to handle an extra gallon of e85 in your gasoline. When ford sells you a tune. Does that tune come with a bigger fuel pump? NO! Why not? Well the answer to that is simple. The stock pump can handle addition fuel requirements well above stock parameters. How does ford manage to get an addition 50 horsepower out of a tune if they are not adding additional fuel? Thats a rhetorical question. You act like another 5% of ethnol is just going to grenade the engine. I've watch you post endless nonsense on this forum. You're probably the worst for misinformation. By yourself a laptop and get some data logs before you go yelling what the fuel system can and cannot handle. You are talking about tuning. Tuning would only be required if your running straight e85. Now back to those problems. Name a single problem running an extra gallon of e85 in your gasoline will cause? I've named two benefits. You name a single problem that is going to acure. Carbon build up? Nope alcohol burns cleaner than gasoline. Detonation? Nope alcohol cools the cylinder tempature. Reduced fuel milage? Maybe? But does that matter seeing that e85 is cheaper than 93 octane gasoline. Don't just shake your fist in the air. Here's a few photos of cars I've owned. They have all had power adders and none of them run on pump gas. You guys are out of your depth here when it comes to fuels and performance!

I'm not sure if you realize this or not but you do realize that the two pictures you just posted here are vehicles that are tuned to run ethanol right? Also you're probably running the ethanol fuel straight into your fuel tank and letting the vehicle do the work and therefore you need to tune it. I do not know what makes you so special to think you don't have to tune it and get other parts to make it work. Ethanol fuel has less energy to start with than regular fuel. Unless the manufacturer has Parts in place that will allow for it it is not able to be ran. Obviously Ford estate and we do not have the parts necessary to run E85. If you add a separate tank to put in alcohol injections and that's a whole nother story but that's not what you're talking about doing with your own vehicle. That is why we are telling you that you will have problems with your truck if you keep doing what you are doing.

 

[slowmachine]

Fantasizing about the theoretical performance of a factory-stock Ranger on E85 or pure methanol, even with Ford’s own performance “tune” setup, is wasted effort. Every gas station here sells E5-E10. Much to the irritation of millions of boat owners, there is nearly no ethanol-free gasoline either. There appears to be a single retail E85 fuel supplier in all of New England. I’m certainly not going to drive 200 miles round-trip to see whether one or two gallons of E85 will increase the performance of my Ranger. There’s a difference between what’s possible and what’s practical, and I am strongly on the side of the practical. If you see corn fields everywhere you drive, you might have more choices.

 

[Bluebeastsrt]

I'm not sure if you realize this or not but you do realize that the two pictures you just posted here are vehicles that are tuned to run ethanol right? Also you're probably running the ethanol fuel straight into your fuel tank and letting the vehicle do the work and therefore you need to tune it. I do not know what makes you so special to think you don't have to tune it and get other parts to make it work. Ethanol fuel has less energy to start with than regular fuel. Unless the manufacturer has Parts in place that will allow for it it is not able to be ran. Obviously Ford estate and we do not have the parts necessary to run E85. If you add a separate tank to put in alcohol injections and that's a whole nother story but that's not what you're talking about doing with your own vehicle. That is why we are telling you that you will have problems with your truck if you keep doing what you are doing.

What problems?????? Name them.

 

[Spence's bumper sticker]

By yourself a laptop

@Frenchy needs to by himself a laptop.

 

[Bluebeastsrt]

Fantasizing about the theoretical performance of a factory-stock Ranger on E85 or pure methanol, even with Ford’s own performance “tune” setup, is wasted effort. Every gas station here sells E5-E10. Much to the irritation of millions of boat owners, there is nearly no ethanol-free gasoline either. There appears to be a single retail E85 fuel supplier in all of New England. I’m certainly not going to drive 200 miles round-trip to see whether one or two gallons of E85 will increase the performance of my Ranger. There’s a difference between what’s possible and what’s practical, and I am strongly on the side of the practical. If you see corn fields everywhere you drive, you might have more choices.

Your changing the subject. We aren't discussing the availability of e85. We are discussing the potential down side of adding a gallon to 87 octane. You yourself said there is already 15% ethanol in gasoline. So whats the harm in adding e85 to 87 octane? To bump octane up. You guys are talking in circles. But no one has given me one problem that you are sooooo sure will arise. What are the problems that are going to happen? Name them specifically?

 

[Bluebeastsrt]

For your reading pleasure.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...E85_in_a_Turbocharged_Direct_Injection_Engine

https://www.researchgate.net/public...E85_in_a_Turbocharged_Direct_Injection_Engine

 

[slowmachine]

Your changing the subject. We aren't discussing the availability of e85. We are discussing the potential down side of adding a gallon to 87 octane. You yourself said there is already 15% ethanol in gasoline. So whats the harm in adding e85 to 87 octane? To bump octane up. You guys are talking in circles. But no one has given me one problem that you are sooooo sure will arise. What are the problems that are going to happen? Name them specifically?

No, YOU are changing the subject. I started this thread with a simple question about whether it was really necessary, or even beneficial, to use premium fuel instead of regular in my new truck. You brought E85 into the mix, and dragged everyone off into a side argument about whether or not it is intelligent or safe to run high-alcohol fuels in a stock Ranger. From the tone and content of your posts, I think you’re only here to stir up a hornet’s nest, and you alluded to that in your first post. In my neighborhood, we call this self-aggrandizing trolling, and I’m not going to feed the troll.

Thread unfollowed.

 

[Bluebeastsrt]

 

[Ranger_Rocks]

 

[Bluebeastsrt]

No, YOU are changing the subject. I started this thread with a simple question about whether it was really necessary, or even beneficial, to use premium fuel instead of regular in my new truck. You brought E85 into the mix, and dragged everyone off into a side argument about whether or not it is intelligent or safe to run high-alcohol fuels in a stock Ranger. From the tone and content of your posts, I think you’re only here to stir up a hornet’s nest, and you alluded to that in your first post. In my neighborhood, we call this self-aggrandizing trolling, and I’m not going to feed the troll.

Thread unfollowed.

.So you cant name a single problem? Got ya. Watch the video I posted. They couldn't find a problem with it either. When using ethanol blended fuel. I simply gave you another option to 87 or 93 octane with my first reply. And gave my reasoning behind the recommendation. I also explained the benefits of my recommendations. (Cylinder cooling which suppresses detonation & budget friendly higher octane fuel) And I at least backed up my thoughts with available science. If someone tells me I'm wrong. I would like for them to explain why? Saying it'll cause some yet unknown problem. Isn't constructive. If no one can name these phantom problems that you and frenchy assure me will accrue down the road......Are they really problems?

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