PPE Deep Pan

[TJC]

Book time for a water pump replacement is 2.5 hours with no special tools needed. Not really a major effort.

That is comforting, it looked like the harmonic balancer and wholed front of the engine had to be removed to access the water pump.

Sponsored

 

[ctechbob]

As unhappy as you may be, I can promise you it is not a Fluid Problem. Ford has a Bulletin for an update with the transmission for some of the shifting issues with the Valve Body and the Programming. If memory serves me right, I had a weird issue in the first 5,000 miles where the truck wanted to bounce between 3rd and 7th simply by touching and releasing the throttle. I was working at a Ford Dealer at the time and spoke with the transmission tech there. It was something new to him and he suggested clearing the transmission learn. I did just that and never had an issue since.

Now when it comes to when to change the fluid? I'm not going to lie that I like the idea of changing it every 30,000 miles. Nissan has recommended that schedule on both Automatic and Manual Transmissions since the dawn of time. It shows to be a great way to keep a vehicle running for a long time.

For you not wanting to trust the dealership since that early of a time, perhaps you need to find a different dealer. Also if you clearly have no confidence in Ford, why do you keep buying them? Just curious ?

You are correct, it isn't strictly an issue with the fluid. ULV is a well designed, robust, fluid.

The problem is sticking valves in the valve body. Be that because of manufacturing errors, fluid contamination, poor design, or wear, the end result is the same. The valves tend to stick and cause timing issues. Ford is trying to program their way out of it, and they are hoping that it at least solves SOME of the problems to keep from having to pay for hard parts. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

The only thing(s) we as end users can control is.

1. Keeping micro contaminants (smaller than the filter can catch) out of the fluid in hopes of slowing any wear down. The filter is a good filter, but it can't catch it all, you have to get them out and clean fluid in. I posted a picture on here somewhere of one of our solenoids, they have tiny mesh screens on them to keep particles out. The downside to that is, they will keep the particles out and stuck on the screen, possibly hurting flow.

2. Supplementing the fluid with something to free up the valves. This is where the Lubegard can help. Whatever is in it seems to help things stay freed up. Is there something else that would do it? Maybe, but Lubegard is just a company that I have filed in my brain as a 'do no harm' type company. They don't make huge outlandish claims about their products and for all intents seem to put some good engineering into them.

That's just about it. If the trans is going to break hard parts (CDF Drum, I'm looking at you) I don't think there's anything that will help, but in the meantime, we can try to keep the valves free and clear.

 

[Frenchy]

You are correct, it isn't strictly an issue with the fluid. ULV is a well designed, robust, fluid.

The problem is sticking valves in the valve body. Be that because of manufacturing errors, fluid contamination, poor design, or wear, the end result is the same. The valves tend to stick and cause timing issues. Ford is trying to program their way out of it, and they are hoping that it at least solves SOME of the problems to keep from having to pay for hard parts. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

The only thing(s) we as end users can control is.

1. Keeping micro contaminants (smaller than the filter can catch) out of the fluid in hopes of slowing any wear down. The filter is a good filter, but it can't catch it all, you have to get them out and clean fluid in. I posted a picture on here somewhere of one of our solenoids, they have tiny mesh screens on them to keep particles out. The downside to that is, they will keep the particles out and stuck on the screen, possibly hurting flow.

2. Supplementing the fluid with something to free up the valves. This is where the Lubegard can help. Whatever is in it seems to help things stay freed up. Is there something else that would do it? Maybe, but Lubegard is just a company that I have filed in my brain as a 'do no harm' type company. They don't make huge outlandish claims about their products and for all intents seem to put some good engineering into them.

That's just about it. If the trans is going to break hard parts (CDF Drum, I'm looking at you) I don't think there's anything that will help, but in the meantime, we can try to keep the valves free and clear.

Certainly some fair points. That said there are some things to keep in mind.

#1 with the micro contaminates you speak of that the filter can't catch. I would not worry about it. I don't care what transmission or engine you want to speak about. If you have something that small I really doubt it will cause an issue. Vehicle Manufacturers have done pretty well over the years about selecting the right micron size for the filters and screens that if there is a problem, you will find out for sure.

I'm even aware of the screens you are talking about that are on the solenoids. Unless you have a big chunk that made it's way through somehow all the way to the solenoid, then I would not worry at all.

#2 I won't argue that there are some different additives on the market that will help certain things. A great example is the Berryman's B12 Chemtool Fuel Cleaner. Something I like to use every oil change for basic maintenance and I'm sure it helps.

For lube Guard, I can't speak for it as I have never used it(and don't plan to if I can avoid). This comes down to the fact that I was thought years ago that Automatic Transmissions can be very picky and sometimes act up if the fluid is mixed with either the wrong fluid or some additives. That said I a certainly a believer that regardless of make and model that you should always use the correct fluid for the transmission(and every other part as well).

 

[Frenchy]

Presently I am ecstatic about the truck, but my guard is up. After 15K miles of "transmission trauma" I am still very cautious. But I am delighted that the issues appear to be resolved.

A little history is in order... The truck began to misbeahve at 5K miles, but it was rare. It progressively worsened. At 12K I took the truck to the dealer. Working as designed they said... no problem found. Those rough shifts are common, all the Rangers shift that way. I never went back.

Since I have cleared and reset the "learn" tables several times, and went through the learning protocol outlined in the service manual after each reset. Temporarily better, but would grwo steadily worse over time.

No Joy.

Got to where it would hold on 1 first coming to a stop, then jerk out to neutral.

I turned off the auto learn tables and all hell broke loose. The solenoids were sticking and slow to activate. Turned auto learn back on and went back though the learn protocols and things returned to the normal funky shifting, not shifting, not releasing when stopping erratic behavior.

Some days almost normal, others days simply crazy.

Frenchy, there is no way on God's green earth that you will convince me that it wasn't the fluid that was the fluid change and LubeGard didn't correct the problem. The only day I drove the truck all winter, I started it up, let it idle while collecting my wife and we pulled out the driveway. Driving at 20 mph, the solenoids shifted so slowly that I could actually hear them energize and begin to move, taking 5- 10 seconds to complete the transition and shift to the next gear. I got to 6th before stopping the truck, and retrying using a very slow acceleration so as not to damage anything. The exact same thing occurred. I turned around and parked it for the winter. BTW, The truck is garaged and temps in the garage stay much higher than outdoors. It was balmy day in the mid 50's. Not cold at all!

I had been discussing this with cetchbob who first turned me on to LubGard. I went all winter and into the spring before finally giving it a try. In fact I was so skeptical I refused to try it. ctechbob didn't push, just stated I should give it a try, and I told him I worried that Ford would not honor my extended warranty if I went for it.

I was finally so desperate for a fix that I gave it a try. I moved the truck to my work garage and I let the truck sit over night. The next morning I pulled 7.5 quarts out via the Fitzstick. I replaced that fluid witn Motorcraft ULV and 10oz of LubeGard. Started the truck up and took it for a spin.

ALL SYMPYOMS GONE. ALL OF THEM.

And it has been that way now for 2K miles. It may start acting up again at any moment, but I am becoming more confident each day. Presently I can't feel any shift except 4th, amd it is no harsher than what I feel in my 2005 Ranger. The other 9 are all exceptionally smooth. 4th appears to be getting better over time.

The ONLY thing that has changed is the transmission fluid and the addition of LubeGard.

I've been around the block on automobiles, Swapped my first engine at 13 (entirely by myself).

Built and rebuilt many different varieties. of engines, from a Chevy Corvair Spider (a really fun car), to small block Chevy V8s, to Ford 200CID straight inline 6 cyl. Audi 4 cycl, Oldsmobile 350 v8 Diesels.

I purchased that Olds new and blew head gaskets twice in 2 years, first time covered under warranty, the 2nd time out of warranty and I did the work. After a year or so I decided it was unreliable and went back to the dealer of purchase wishing to trade it in for a new model. Not a single GM dealer would accept it on trade. They actually laughed at me to my face! 24K miles on it, garaged and looking new. I vowed not to puchace a GM ever again, and have not purchased a GM vehicle since... and I will never purchase a GM vehicle again.

I went foreign for the next 20 years until 1999 and all models were extremely reliable. The last was a 2003 Maxima that I just gifted to a nephew. It looks new and runs great.

This is when I purchased my first Ranger used, a 98 2.3l that I drove for several years before giving it to my Dad. I had absolutely no problems with it. Bought my 2005 Ranger Edge 4.0:v6 4x4 new, and I am still driving it. I love this truck. Simple Reliable rugged transportation.

Bought the 2020 Ranger figuring it would be my last Ranger, and under the impression it would have the reliability of the first two and that I could still be driving it until it is time to give up my keys. (I'm pushing 70.)

But for added insurance, I rebuilt the 2005 from the ground up Everything except the diffs and transfer case, and PS and Fuel pumps (I just replaced the fuel pump) were replaced.

EVERYTHING! The truck is in outstanding shape, and I trust it to go anywhere.

So that is my Ford purchase history. And you are correct, I have purchased my last Ford unless I see a dramatic improvement in quality control.

I may take it in for the TSB if they change the shift patterns to a slightly higher rpm. But I don't want them touching the transmission as it is operating fine for the first time in 2 years.

Certainly an interesting story. That said, here is my take on it.

I don't know how cold it will get in North Carolina in the winter as I do not recall every heading that way before. But I can say that are living in one of the Highest Towns in the USA I can say I have dealt with a cold winter before. I'm talking about an elevation of just over 10,000 FT and Temperatures not getting above Freezing for Months(to a point when we saw 40° F one of the locals was walking down the street in Shorts and a Hawaiian Shirt). Now of course I had the Ranger during this time. That includes the oddball issue I mentioned with the shifting. One simple learn reset helped quite a bit. Overall in that time I never had any major problems. Of course the transmission wanted to be a little harsh when shifting at first, but once it was warmed up it was smooth.

One thing you should ask be aware of with modern vehicles regardless of make and model. The new Electronic Transmissions are always learning. What are they learning? Well besides the wear points and how much pressure to apply in each gear, it also learns how you drive. It does that so it can help optimize the shift patterns for optimum performance and comfort. The best part is this process never stops.

Now also keep in mind that the 10R80 is a different animal compared to any other Transmission like what is in the older Ford you have. With all the extra gears, it will definitely have a fun time trying to find the right gear if you don't know how to have a smooth throttle on the road. It becomes more fun in stop and go traffic. The same thing applies to other vehicles that have 8, 9 or 10 speed transmissions. This certainly isn't no Turbo 350 Transmission.

You say the fluid was the problem? Remember that you put an Additive in there. That additive being Lube Guard. As much as I won't argue the fluid may have helped, you kept the same fluid and you did not change all of it. It is very possible that the Lube Guard helped with the Valve Body not having solenoids sticking near as much. I can promise you that is not because of the fluid. There is actually a design with the valve body that is causing a bit of issue here. In reality it is no surprise since Ford is the king of "Better Ideas".

Just some things to keep in mind

 

[TJC]

Frenchy,

I have never broken the cardinal rule of using transmission additives... until this truck... and only because it was that or sell the truck... and if it hadn't worked the truck would be gone right now.

I read a report from a Ford Engineer where he had argued for a different formula in the ULV and predicted problems. He was over voted. I could not find it now even if I wanted to. The valve body may have a design flaw, anything from metal alloys to mechanical design to poor part selection. That said, the correct lubricant mix also goes into the equation.

ULV may be a high quality fluid, but so it 90 weight Diff oil, and you don't put it in where the other belongs. Ford needs to fix the design or modify the fluid to support longevity of the design.

BTW, I lived in Colorado in the the mid to late 70's during the arctic blasts that were the norrn of the time. We went 8 weeks in Colorado Springs with temp below 0. I remember splitting wood in a T shirt when temps rose to 20F. And I wasn't cold at all.

Alamosa was always to coldest place at night during the winter, much colder than Durango. But man was it hot in the summer.

I am very familar with that weather. Beautiful state. Nature shouts at you out there.

My point about the transmission acting up more during winter is that the problem significantly worsened during a very mild cold spell. Something that should noty have happened, but then again none of these issues should be happening with a well sorted out product.

Lastly. I know your intentions are good and you are trying to assist, and I appreciate your efforts.

And as of this moment, the very best decision that I have made re: my transmission trouble, is to have followed ctechbob's advice. Even when it went against my thoughts on transmission additives. And ctechbob knows how long I put off trying LubeGard.

So I am counting this as a win. And with any luck, my transmission problems are solved for the long term. $15 for an additive vs a month or two in a service bay and several thousands of dollars sure feels like a win to me!

 

[IRISHTREMOR]

And I am convinced the formulation of both Motorcraft and Valvoline are either low or missing important additives. Transmission fluid should last longer than 5K miles!

I started having transmissions issues at 5K miles (the first 12K were 90% long distance highway miles) and they grew steadily worse until at 20K I was desperate enough to contemplate unloading the truck. I had already purchased the MBS FitzStick, and the PPE pan hoping that changing the fluid would help, and told my wife (who wanted me to unload the lemon) to give me one more chance to correct the problem. I promised her that if this last effort failed that I would sell the truck this summer.

I also took the advice of ctechbob to add in LubeGard Platinum (10 oz). Sincew changing the fluid and adding LubeGard Platinum I have had 2000 trouble free miles since. And the only gear that I could still feel the shift was 4th. I drove the truck today. and even 4th was now shifting smooth as silk.

I will be installing the PPE deep pan, and I will be changing the transmission fluid much more often than the schedule calls for, probably as frequent as every 20K miles, but even sooner if I notice even a hint or hiccup in the transmission. And LubeGard Platinum is going in with each change.

BTW, the fluid that came out was black, not even a hint of red. My 2003 Maxima, and my 2005 Ranger fluid easily went 50K and was only slightly brown at the fluid change.

Maybe it is that the transmission is simply hard on fluid, or maybe it is poor quailty fluid specs. or maybe a combination of both. But it doesn't matter now that I have stumbled on a solution. My truck is 4 years old and only has 20K miles on it. And 12K went on it very quickly as I was forced to travel a great deal the first year of ownership. This hints at my complete lack of trust in the truck up until recently.

You can do a lost worse than changing the fluid and dropping in 10 Oz of LubeGard Platinum.

I’m a firm believer in changing the fluids. Old boy told me long ago oil and filters are a lot cheaper than engines and transmissions. He also told me car manufacturers are in the business to build and sell vehicles not maintenance.

 

[ctechbob]

One thing you should ask be aware of with modern vehicles regardless of make and model. The new Electronic Transmissions are always learning. What are they learning? Well besides the wear points and how much pressure to apply in each gear, it also learns how you drive. It does that so it can help optimize the shift patterns for optimum performance and comfort. The best part is this process never stops.

Please stop repeating that. They do not. None of them do. Not the almighty ZF8, not the 10R and its variants, none of them.

Mercedes did have one long ago that did but have since dropped that 'feature'.

@FunInTheSun had the absolute best explanation for it I've read to date:

FunInTheSun said:
Not sure if your concern is the rough shift or the rpm drop. Since the rpm drop is just the torque converter locking (eliminating slip), I assume the concern if the rough shift.
There's so much information about the transmission "learning" that what it's actually learning gets kind of lost in the shuffle.

The transmission has a table of values related to timing of the various solenoid valves that it uses to calculate when to begin disengaging one "gear"and engaging the next "gear". Since each "gear can involve activating / deactivating more than one solenoid per "gear", coordinating the engage / disengage cycle can get complicated, and the computer (TCU) does it on the fly. But the parameters have nothing to do with driving style. They are related to how much time each individual solenoid takes to engage and disengage. The time varies because each of the clutch actuating circuits encompass a different volume of fluid, among other things.
There is a "learning" procedure that you can perform. It sometimes gets overlooked by dealerships because the requirements for doing it, especially in a city environment, can be time consuming to locate a suitable place to do it.

It involves a series of specific acceleration runs, so you kind of have to find a deserted road somewhere to do it. Look for "transmission learning procedure" or similar in the threads. This may straighten out any minor timing problems. Or maybe not. Also, since you are going to the dealer anyway, you can ask them about it.

 

[Frenchy]

Please stop repeating that. They do not. None of them do. Not the almighty ZF8, not the 10R and its variants, none of them.

Mercedes did have one long ago that did but have since dropped that 'feature'.

@FunInTheSun had the absolute best explanation for it I've read to date:

I know you have a hard time believing it, but it still has that feature. It's called adaptive learning period If it becomes a fun feature because it will learn when you're trying to be sporty and it will learn when you're trying to be not so sporty. It will change the shift strategy accordingly. You would be surprised on how many manufacturers do this with electronically controlled transmissions. This is not the old days where you had nothing but hydraulic controls but simply went by basic input of the throttle pedal.

 

[ctechbob]

I know you have a hard time believing it, but it still has that feature. It's called adaptive learning period If it becomes a fun feature because it will learn when you're trying to be sporty and it will learn when you're trying to be not so sporty. It will change the shift strategy accordingly. You would be surprised on how many manufacturers do this with electronically controlled transmissions. This is not the old days where you had nothing but hydraulic controls but simply went by basic input of the throttle pedal.

Its not what I believe, it is how it works. Else when someone else drove your truck it would drive like a bag of ass because it 'learned' you.

Adaptive learning is just as what is described above. Period. That's why there is an adaptive learning process you have to go through when you reset the tables.

You are the one who is failing to believe.

And no, FordBossMe doesn't count as a point of reference.

 

[Frenchy]

Its not what I believe, it is how it works. Else when someone else drove your truck it would drive like a bag of ass because it 'learned' you.

Adaptive learning is just as what is described above. Period. That's why there is an adaptive learning process you have to go through when you reset the tables.

You are the one who is failing to believe.

And no, FordBossMe doesn't count as a point of reference.

I'm not sure if you are aware, but I get a lot of training from this kind of stuff. The first bit was tech school. Even though I didn't do too well in the automatic transmission class, this is one of the big things I did remember. When I was doing training under both Nissan and Ford the same thing was thought. If this particular information was not true they would not teach it to begin with.

Remember that your own driving habits are part of the equation of the learning process. It is not the entire equation, just a part of it.

 

[Grumpaw]

Fight.....Fight......

 

[Stevedbvik1]

The adaptive learning also tells the CDF bushing how far to migrate out of position

 

[awd.nv]

Fight.....Fight......

Did you end up replacing the trans pan? I am curious how the added capacity helped with temps. Technically it will eventually heat soak and should reach the same temp on a long enough drive but should help on shorter trips.

Today it was 117F and man I seemed to catch every red light today on a 15min city drive. Temps hit 220F on the trans. Doesn't the Ranger use the radiator to cool the trans too? Wondered as I figure a rad upgrade would help the trans temps too I presume. These things seem to like to run warm, I tow as well though so cooler is better in my book.

 

[ctechbob]

Did you end up replacing the trans pan? I am curious how the added capacity helped with temps. Technically it will eventually heat soak and should reach the same temp on a long enough drive but should help on shorter trips.

Today it was 117F and man I seemed to catch every red light today on a 15min city drive. Temps hit 220F on the trans. Doesn't the Ranger use the radiator to cool the trans too? Wondered as I figure a rad upgrade would help the trans temps too I presume. These things seem to like to run warm, I tow as well though so cooler is better in my book.

I'm seeing about 10 deg cooler, even towing with the pan. I've got some datalogs around here somewhere of it. Although, if you work it REALLY hard for a LONG time it does seem to saturate and start climbing. I'm pretty careful these days to always monitor temps and adjust the driving accordingly, after my runaway temperature incident last year around this time.

 

[Frenchy]

Did you end up replacing the trans pan? I am curious how the added capacity helped with temps. Technically it will eventually heat soak and should reach the same temp on a long enough drive but should help on shorter trips.

Today it was 117F and man I seemed to catch every red light today on a 15min city drive. Temps hit 220F on the trans. Doesn't the Ranger use the radiator to cool the trans too? Wondered as I figure a rad upgrade would help the trans temps too I presume. These things seem to like to run warm, I tow as well though so cooler is better in my book.

In a way the Ranger does use the Radiator for cooling, but in reality it just has a cooler on the side of the transmission that coolant runs to. Honestly I feel the design could be better. Part of why I feel the standard PPE Pan would be just fine. The extra cooling fins will help with general cooling and the capacity stays the same.

Sponsored