Fuel in oil

[P. A. Schilke]

Wade,
I have been scrounging through the internet looking for "ecoboost fuel in oil" posts and came across this:

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/trailers-transportation/340718-ecoboost-fuel-oil-issue.html

It is a post from 2015 on F150 'ecoboost' (it does not say which engine...3.5L or 2.7L) but it is alluding to a technical service bulletin (TSB) on ecoboost engines getting fuel in the oil due to an issue with the PCV system. The TSB supposedly changes something in the PCV system to correct the issue.

Maybe someone on the forum can try to find this specific 2015 TSB?

I did find reference to an earlier TSB:

http://ecoboostforum.com/threads/ts...el-overfull-2011-2014-f150-ecoboost-3-5l.136/

Holy cow googling fuel dilution in oil brings up PAGES of issues on other brand vehicles. It appears to be a big issue for quite a few manufacturers.

In the meantime, if this is potentially correct, the PCV system may in fact have an affect on this. I would recommend you put the PCV system back the way it was and see if the fuel contamination goes back away (maybe one oil change cycle). You could then reinstall it and see if it subsequently comes back. That may point to the catch can or hose routings as a source for what may be going on as the cause. Or, conversely, it may eliminate it as the cause.

Hi Dan,

After a bit of study of the PCV system, I was extremely reluctant to add a catch can as it had not been run for a complete durability cycle as part of any new vehicle by Ford Engineering. Your research seems to confirm the possibility of a modification causing unanticipated consequences.

Maybe track down someone in Engine Engineering? My only contact, Dr. Ray K. was in Manifold Dynamics and maybe I can get him to do a bit of research. He has moved to another area in Engine and is swamped with work right now...

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Sponsored

 

[HenryMac]

Wade,
I have been scrounging through the internet looking for "ecoboost fuel in oil" posts and came across this:

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/trailers-transportation/340718-ecoboost-fuel-oil-issue.html

It is a post from 2015 on F150 'ecoboost' (it does not say which engine...3.5L or 2.7L) but it is alluding to a technical service bulletin (TSB) on ecoboost engines getting fuel in the oil due to an issue with the PCV system. The TSB supposedly changes something in the PCV system to correct the issue.

Maybe someone on the forum can try to find this specific 2015 TSB?

I did find reference to an earlier TSB:

http://ecoboostforum.com/threads/ts...el-overfull-2011-2014-f150-ecoboost-3-5l.136/

Holy cow googling fuel dilution in oil brings up PAGES of issues on other brand vehicles. It appears to be a big issue for quite a few manufacturers.

In the meantime, if this is potentially correct, the PCV system may in fact have an affect on this. I would recommend you put the PCV system back the way it was and see if the fuel contamination goes back away (maybe one oil change cycle). You could then reinstall it and see if it subsequently comes back. That may point to the catch can or hose routings as a source for what may be going on as the cause. Or, conversely, it may eliminate it as the cause.

You would think the dealer could check the PCV system for proper operation.... as I stated previously, if the engine was fine before the catch can, then experienced issues after the catch can was installed, logic and proportion would dictate checking what was changed and if it had any effect.

 

[dceggert]

You would think the dealer could check the PCV system for proper operation.... as I stated previously, if the engine was fine before the catch can, then experienced issues after the catch can was installed, logic and proportion would dictate checking what was changed and if it had any effect.

If it was a dealer installed item they may. A customer added item they will just shy away from as what appears to be happening.

*Snip

Maybe track down someone in Engine Engineering?

*Snip

Since the PCV system needs to handle both normally aspirated mode and intake pressurization mode they have gotten substantially more complicated than 'the old days.' I will investigate what I can but I am not allowed to officially represent anyone other than my own opinions.

In this case I would recommend the system be removed to see if proper operation comes back.​

 

[P. A. Schilke]

If it was a dealer installed item they may. A customer added item they will just shy away from as what appears to be happening.

Since the PCV system needs to handle both normally aspirated mode and intake pressurization mode they have gotten substantially more complicated than 'the old days.' I will investigate what I can but I am not allowed to officially represent anyone other than my own opinions.

In this case I would recommend the system be removed to see if proper operation comes back.​

Hi Dan,

I understand completely. The PCV system is quite complicated now as you stated. I really would not risk engine problems and have Ford deny the claim due to a catch can... I wonder if the developers of these catch cans have any idea of the way the new PCV systems operate?

Thanks for your valuable input to this forum on this concern!

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[Wade]

So I changed the oil last night, no more fuel smell. Ran the truck for a few minutes prior to warm the oil up so it would drain nice. Installed the fumoto. Went out today to look at the oil and it reeked of gas again! Never ran it since changing the oil, just slightly before. But only the first dipstick worth really stank. After I wiped that and actually checked the oil level, no more stink. What the heck? Do you think it's possible that leaking fuel is just landing right on the dipstick? I need to look at a diagram of the engine...

 

[Wade]

I appreciate all the replies about the pcv system and catch can. Only a few things lead me to think that's probably not the issue, though definitely worth looking at. I'm going to measure the amount of oil I drained out yesterday to see how much fuel got in the oil, but I think it's a lot, and I've only had the catch can for a few hundred miles. I can't imagine some change in vacuum pressure adding a quart or two of gas to the oil in just a few hundred miles. I only caught the problem after installing the catch can, I just have no way of going back in time and seeing if the problem existed prior. But after removing the original PCV hose, I noted that it stank of gas horribly as well, but didn't think much of it, but in hindsight I probably should have and checked the oil for fuel smell. I ordered up an amsoil test kit that I'll be sending them for analysis, I'll let you guys know what I find.

 

[Wade]

Just checked how much "oil" I drained out last night and it came out to 7 quarts. Adding the oil left in the engine (it was still draining a little when I buttoned it back up), the little bit I took out to send to amsoil, and the fairly significant amount that spilled, I estimate anywhere from 1.5-2 quarts of fuel in my oil. Only 1800 miles on the truck. Luckily some of that evaporates and goes through the pcv system, otherwise who knows how bad it would be...

 

[HenryMac]

Reminds me of the old days when carburetors would leak fuel after the engine was shut off. The fuel would run into the cylinders and sit, eventually leaking past the rings and down into the oil pan.

So has the dealer basically said everything is ok at this point Wade?

Make sure you mention the fuel issue with Amsoil before they do the testing.

 

[I_smell_like_diesel]

Just a thought but possibly you could have a leaking High Pressure Fuel Pump. Fuel can leak past the shaft leak into the engine in some instances. I remember replacing these daily on GM 2.4L's when I worked for a GM Dealer. We'd just pull the dipstick and if the the oil level would read way too high, they would without question replace the HPFP without question under warranty.

 

[fusseli]

The subjectiveness of smell is not a reliable test. Ranger oil capacity is 6.2qt. If 7qt came out then the Ammsoil UOA should come back with a very high percentage like over 10%. Everything else is speculative.

 

[Engmus]

Information to be subjectively reviewed.

19 - Ranger Lariat, 29xx miles as of today. Installed JLT Catch can at 1,000 miles. Time with Catch-can 1,900 miles.

I installed mine and haven't really looked at it but once, and it was bone dry, smelled like PCV fumes, but nothing significant caught. Just checked after reviewing this thread, had maybe a teaspoon or less of oily, watery, gasy, normal PCV blow-by caught.

If OP hooked up a catch-can as directions indicated (if similar to JLT design) I would say that this is not specific to the JLT catch-can design.

Reminder, I am a single testing sample.

 

[u wish u could ride]

would they be letting a touch of fuel by to wash the intake valves?

 

[t4thfavor]

Would be funny to find a low volume fuel injector in the PCV system. They'd likely call it the "bandaid injector".

 

[G-Force]

Just a thought but possibly you could have a leaking High Pressure Fuel Pump. Fuel can leak past the shaft leak into the engine in some instances. I remember replacing these daily on GM 2.4L's when I worked for a GM Dealer. We'd just pull the dipstick and if the the oil level would read way too high, they would without question replace the HPFP without question under warranty.

I think you hit the nail on the head if the oil sample comes back with a higher than normal amount of gas in it.

 

[Wade]

Just got the results back in, good thing I caught onto this and changed my oil! I haven't looked real close to see if it gives me more specific numbers, but over 5% fuel dilution, which is the highest level they have, and the oil lubricity of course is severely degraded. Just can't believe the techs at the Ford dealership were so ignorant to say that everything looked normal...

View attachment 23372

Sponsored